Broken Arrow

Agreed! :)

What you say in this quote is, in my opinion, what forgiveness is. I think we just disagree on semantics.

I completely understand where you are coming from, trust me. If you are not bitter or angry, and I'll add not seeking revenge. If you are not waiting for them to repay you for the wrong they have committed against you, then you have, in fact, forgiven them. That's all forgiveness is, it is a letting go of expecting repayment. It's a tearing up of a debt owed to you. It is leaving them in the care of God, or higher power, (or whatever you believe) trusting that God is just, and will deal with them accordingly. It is a very very powerful weapon. It is not "excusing unrepentant evildoers". Quite the contrary. Forgiveness says "it's not okay, what you did was terrible, but I'm tearing up the bill you owe me. This is no longer in my hands, I seek no revenge." You're right that excusing evil behavior enables evildoers and helps propogate the abuser/victim relationship. Excusing and forgiving are two different things. Forgiving and reconciling are also 2 different things. If I have a relative who abused me in the past, I may forgive them. That is, I'm not holding any ill will against them, but darned if I'm going to let them watch my kids. I believe you also said, or someone said, that telling the truth about someone and about what they did is not unforgiveness. It is telling the truth. That's true as well and in some cases it is necessary to inform others about actions a person may take. Again, that is a separate issue from forgiveness.

Do you know what a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac does? He lies awake all night wondering if there really is a dog.

Great! Putting young girls out on the open road again and getting into vehicles with who knows? Whatever happens on that open road is leadership's responsibility. If someone gets raped, remember TWI's strategies, #1) Say nothing and 2) Blame the victim for not believing and not "listening to God". Remember, it's never the program's fault, never! By the way, in one of the testimonies, an unmarried young man and young woman spend the night together in a hotel room? Do you really think that's a good idea? Oh, I'm sure nothing happened...this time. I suppose you think God put His stamp of approval on it because they got to pray for a lady with cancer. Yeah, but to Hell with morality right? I'm just being legalistic, huh? Go ahead, just put a couple of young hormone-propelled people together, let's see what happens because we all know how wise young people can be. Why reduce temptation? It's just work for you, right? In fact, let's not only not concern ourselves with reducing temptation, let's do what we can to increase it, see how well people "stand". We're not under the law so we can "honk" anyone we want, right? No consequences from that sort of behavior, oh no no no, even if it is "right-on". S.O.W.E.R.S., congratulations. You're picking up right where TWI left off, you don't even have to go through stages, you're already there. You are already sowing some very very bad seed. I'm not sure even you can imagine what problems you're bringing on yourself and for the young people that look to you for guidance.

I had the opposite experience with Rome City. I always liked it there. Of course, I was never assigned there as Corps and I didn't have any children. In fact, I was single at the time. I volunteered to work there during the Advanced Class. In other words, I was pretty much left to myself for 2 weeks. Also, it was after I spent a year in captivity in-residence and I was ready to bust out. Being left alone for first time in several months seemed heavenly and I possibly associated that with my surroundings. So I liked the animals, and I love old buildings (as long as I don't have to maintain them), and the water actually tasted good. The place I thought was "creepy" was Emporia, which is where I spent most of my time. So maybe it was the experience and the associations that were creepy. Or maybe I was deluded and fit in well with whatever spiritual juice was around at the time. Kind of a morbid thought, I know, but hey, it was a morbid group.

Yup! That pretty much describes Central Ohio too except the leader, T@m B^rk3, uses the group to promote himself.

The Geer-ites do the M&A thing too? LCM did it so they decided they had to "keep up with the Joneses"? It's like both sides evolved into Nazi's or something. What's the matter with people? That M & A stuff just flies in the face of even being even a civilized human much less a "super believer". You innies and Geer-ites, I don't want to shock you, but there are actually things going on in the world, that are going to have a much bigger affect on you, me, and everyone else than people who don't view things the way you do. Oh, and another thing, if you're actually nice to people, they'll in all probability be nice back. But noooooo! Everyone has to get their points across and polarize as many people as they can in the process. M&A people. Yeah! That'll show 'em. That's sure to win people to your point of view. Hate them into loving you. Guess that makes sense, somehow. Let's get real here. What sticks in your crawl is that when someone else who came out of TWI does well and yet doesn't line up with your views, it shows that you are wrong. That is something you just can't stand to face. You have to either adjust your beliefs or reject the person. Rejecting the person is much easier. When you sink to that level, you're in the wrong camp, man.

The former leadership in Central Ohio certainly is. I don't really know much about the rest of the state. DA in Idaho was running his classes as of a few years ago. I'm pretty sure there is some stuff going on for Geer out in California with DS**D and group.

It's that time of year again when Americans turn on their televisions to watch good ol' rough and tumble American Football. Part of this wonderful tradition is the U.S. Sports Media who love to "analyze" and ask their analytical, intelligent questions. I've come to the conclusion that the media and football coaches have entered into a secret agreement, and that covertly all coaches have gone through some sort of course on how to answer these "astute questions". So, astute reporters have developed no less than a thousand and one ways to ask, "What do you need to do to win?" There is only one answer which is, "We need to score more points than they do." But that is so boring. So coaches have developed a thousand and one ways to answer this question. Here is a case in point that happened just today. BTW, I'm an Ohio State Buckeye fan, but it can be any school or even NFL team. I'll be mostly picking on Ohio State. Reporter: "Coach, Indiana had a losing season last year, but they lost 4 or 5 games by less than a touchdown. What would you say to their coach?" Earle Bruce (retired OSU Head Football Coach): "I would say to him that he needs to do one of 2 things. Either score more points on offense, or allow less points to be scored on defense. Losing by 5 points is still losing." He really said that, and he said it with such confidence! How profound!

Yeah Ham, any port in the storm is exactly what I'm saying. I don't know what "shingle for Shiva is", but it sounds about right.

I had a good friend who died of cancer, ex-wafer. He started fellowshipping with a group some would call "name it and claim it". He kept confessing and confessing and confessing and claiming his healing. The he died. The problem with this "magic of believing" thing is that it kept him from dying peacefully, He was always "fighting" and claiming, and confessing. It was very sad, really.

No, not all, but damn near all! It was hard to not morph into a flaming idiot once one went through the Corps training and went on to "the field". But you're right. Some people were good people and good leaders and damned if I know how they managed to remain that way. A lot were chased out, as you know. Umm, I wasn't chased out by the way. I sorta fit right in I confess.

With all due respect, in some ways I agree with this post, and in others I disagree, for what it's worth. Any group that teaches freedom of thought and expression has to deal with the fact that some people are going to actually start doing it. When people start actually practicing freedom it upsets the status quo, and that is very frightening to other people. People who know they're free are not controllable. The Spirit of God is not subservient to the will of man and cares nothing for organizations or titles. People who follow their own leadings without fear are scary because they don't tow the line, and they won't fit into categories. Sometimes such people make mistakes that might make the organization look bad...oh no!!! Where I fall into disagreement is the thinking that many seem to have suggesting that TWI started out as a good organization that just fell off the rails. I've heard some say things like, TWI had a good thing going but they let it slip away, they became religious. No. TWI was a corrupt, heretical group from its outset. It was born out of VP's own rebellion and drive to be worshipped. He tried to be a man that was accountable to no one. He fleeced the flock (a bunch of kids) to fulfill his own personal whims and lusts. TWI was not a Christian organization and those who were involved did not enjoy a Christian experience. That is not to say that no one in TWI was a Christian. I am saying that following VP and even the current teachings of TWI will not lead one to Christ.

Sorry about your marriage Waysider. My first one also ended in divorce and for me it was less than pleasant. Anyway, to continue a bit with the tangent, I believe it turned out to be illegal to pay employees on a need basis. I think the gov requires an employer to pay into social security, unemployment, and I think they have to at least pay minimum wage. I could be wrong about that. I think the Supreme Court ruled on that sometime in the early 80's if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure there's someone reading who runs a business who knows for sure.

Nor did they ever have to move themselves. If they ever did, they would have had someone do it for them.

In case you're wondering how this ended up in the "humor" section, it was because of the very first post when I posted a "Veggie Tales" song. I had had the surgery and I wasn't doing anything so I posted a song about that which was just uproariously funny, at least to me who was a bit bored and slap happy at the time. You've read too many medical journals.

It's a yawn, but I intended it to be aimed at the hype about VPW, not at you or your post. I guess it's not exactly a very clear communication!

No no. They definitely use anesthesia and it's painless. The improvement in eyesight is well worth the process.

I don't get it <_<

Isn't she the one that said, "Die young, stay pretty?" Hah! Bet she's glad she didn't and she still is.

Favorite album without question is Abbey Road. 2nd favorite would be Hard Day's Night with Beatles '65 running a close 3rd.

Nevermind. I got the answer to my question.

Waferheads! LOL! :lol: Because we were a bunch of kids whose thought processes had not yet fully developed. Most of us, imo, were looking for something missing in our souls and thought we found it in TWI. In my case, I hoped I had found it. I didn't complete my thought, sorry. My point in saying this was that there is a difference between emotions having an affect on one's health, and dying because one gives up and "stops believing".