Broken Arrow

Huh? We should "make" each other get engaged? Whaddaya mean?

One last shot if that's okay...how about Kris Kristofferson? For an extra piece of pie, I'll say he also wrote Snowblind.

It's Jim McKay...right?

I believe you when you say you're no longer struggling with TWI stuff. I was referring more to the stuff we all struggle with day to day in trying to be the best we can be, and to make a positive contribution to others while we're here. I appreciate your good wishes in my journey. I still struggle with some TWI things like you said, having just recently discovered stuff. It's a necessary step I think and I won't stay here forever, at least I hope not. Our TWI backgrounds are similar as far as the timeframe and length of time. I'm definitely a city boy, though. I lived in Northern Idaho for awhile and just loved it. I figure the only place more beautiful than Northern Idaho is probably Alaska. Lots of strange people in Northern Idaho, though. The HQ for the Aryan Nations is there. Not that kind of people to sit down and have a friendly "chat", unless you have an uzzi and a couple of hand grenades. Maybe some tear gas.

Very well put Socks.

I mentioned that because in one of your previous posts you said: "Most tyrants, I believe, had spiritual help getting them where they got. Hitler survived 34 assassination attempts. They aren't going anywhere until its time. And someone trying to take them out gets caught and dies terribly and accomplishes nothing." I wasn't sure what you meant by "spiritual power". Another statement you made was, "They aren't going anywhere until its time", referring to failed assassination attempts on Hitler. The statement "until its time" implies to me some other power determines the timing of a leader's rule. So, on the one hand you say you believe leaders have spiritual help and that they aren't going anywhere until it's time. Then you say you don't think God puts leaders in power. What am I missing here? BTW, I'm not arguing with you or criticizing you. In fact I enjoy reading your posts. I'm just trying to track with you.

So sad. I'm sorry you had to endure that. You shouldn't have had to.

Here's some food for thought, maybe. I personally never held a position higher than a twig coordinator. It's easy for me, sometimes, to point fingers at those who held those higher positions and list their offenses. From that I can derive a great feeling of self-righteousness. If I get honest with myself, though, I realize that my heart wasn't much different. The only difference between me and some of these abusive leaders, quite frankly, is opportunity and sphere of influence. I sure wanted to climb that corporate ladder, though!

I was just clowning around...no offense intended. I thought we could share a laugh, perhaps that was misplaced. You're right, I knew exactly what you meant and your point is well taken.

Hippocrates? I'd always wondered what happened to him! Say, didn't LCM already try eradicating the memory of Wierwille?

ClayJay, we are all soooo deceived. We even screw up our own repentance at times. It's hard, and it hurts to face our own deception. But face it we must if we really want to see the light. I've found God to be very patient. I've learned to laugh at myself, and to no longer be surprised when I fall short. I have also found that learning the truth, really learning the truth about God, about myself, about others, though often painful, is worth it. The truth doesn't always come to us a friend, or at least it doesn't seem so. Very often the truth offends us and often the Truth exposes us. That can hurt. I'm glad you're down for the struggle.

I do not believe that God helps tyrants come into power. If He did, then the allies were wrong in opposing him. Wait, God appointed the governing powers in the U.S., Great Britain and France too, so I guess WWII must have been God's will also? I think not. I believe God is a God of order and therefore would have us be law-abiding citizens so that we may live life unencumbered. I think Sunesis is correct in saying that God did not call us to fight with governmental authority. When it lies within our power, we should, as much as possible obey secular governmental rule. When secular laws strike at humankind's dignity, those laws should be resisted as much as possible. When Martin Luther King, with a few hundred other African-Americans, would order food from a restaurant that didn't serve blacks, he was acting properly even though the rule of law was on the side of the restaurant owner. Why? The law was immoral. When Israeli citizens along with Palestinians lay down in front of bulldozers that are ready to knock down Palestinian homes because they're in the way, they are acting properly even though the rule of law is on the side of the army. I could go on about civil disobedience. I don't think this cuts against conservatism so I don't see a need to reconcile this passage with conserveratism.

They did that a lot. Thus it was difficult for an experienced leader to grow for fear of getting hammered by Craig in some public meeting. It was a lot easier and less forboding to follow orders to the the letter and say very little. Therefore, you had new leadership being stymied and rendered in effective. Students imitated their mentor so you had a bunch of Corp Grads hitting the field and acting like jerks among who I was chief.

Yeah. Kinda like that old Salem commercial-----"You can take Salem out of the country, but, you can't take the country out of Salem." Man, that's like really old! I think it was produced shortly after man discovered fire.

How true! Still, you were apologizing. That's a very un-Christian attitude to have to anybody.

Thanks for the information from Juedes, Waysider. :)

They left TWI, you didn't, then you left, apologized (which is definitely biblical) and THEY chastised YOU for "rejecting the Word"? Did they go back into TWI or something? They sound rather confused.

I recall the same thing, except I remember it being told to him by that physician who he said called him every evening to ask what God taught him that day. I can't remember her name...not Dr. Rawlins. I recall that it was she who introduced him to Bullinger's writings. She supposedely said that he taught like Bullinger wrote. At the time, Wierwille had never heard of Bullinger. VP said he was very encouraged when he read Bullinger because for the first time he found someone who agreed with him. He implied that he already had developed his findings prior to reading Bullinger and that Bullinger merely validated what he already learned.

Spell check? THERE'S A SPELLCHECK? :o

Thanks, I was wondering. My apologies to all.

No...that was when he taught that Jesus had his barmitspha (sp?) at the age of 12 because he was thought to be illegitimate. What he read was either an expanded translation, or one of his "literal translations according to usage". My mind is chocked full of completely useless information. I can remember stuff like this but I can't remember where I left my car keys 5 minutes ago. I dunno, but I "hope" we can come up with an answer.

Sorry...obviously I clicked the wrong button and my post turned out to be a reply. I don't feel like re-writing that whole thing. I have no idea how I did this!

O

It was early in the first session and VP's referring to when Jesus cursed the fig tree, "...and his disciples heard it. I wish you could see it in the original...." I had not thought of othat before, but you're right. It is a subtle way of VP putting himself on a higher plane than the rest of the class. What's funny is that at a later session we learn there are no "originals" in existence, "...at best we just have copies...." So, there weren't any "originals" for him to wish we could see.