Broken Arrow

Was it spiked with drambuie? Blasphemy! NO! Definitely a cry for help.

Was this part of "nature's little scrub brushes"?

Wordwolf, yesterday you said that, "1) Old man Wierwille never taught safe boundaries. (We know what all his children said, and how they turned out.) We also have some testimony as to his own behavior. I had asked you just what did his children say, and what's wrong with they way they turned out? Is there something written, or was there a conversation someone had with them?

YES!! Well said. Those who think they can't be fooled again are running a risk of being vulnerable to another con. That may sound unlikely, but it's true. Those who realize that they can be fooled, are in a better place because they recognize their vulnerability. It's important to know one's weakness so we can watch and be ready, and also we can lean on others for support.

Oh, that's funny! It's probably a good thing you didn't ask him about the ministry, though, he had to have been TWI.

I would be more than happy to discuss "love", and the "love of God" with you. I'm interested in an exchange of ideas, but I'm not interested in a game of "dueling doctrines". Anyway, with respect to love, you and I both know that with us humanoids desire is inconsistent. We make commitments to love a spouse "till death do us part". We have a responsibility to love our children. If we adhere to the Christian ethic, we are supposed to "love the brethren" as well as those who are "without" (No, I'm not delving in to that silly "in the household, outside the household" claptrap that in reality was an excuse to acting hateful to people we didn't like. If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry about it). Therefore I say that the least common denominator for love is actually commitment. I know, I know...we've been beaten over the head with that word too, but hear me out. Sometimes for whatever reason we may not have a "desire" to love our spouses, children, brethren, etc. Sometimes people act less than loveable, sometimes we ourselves are acting like jerks, but desire comes and goes. If that's what we're basing things on, then we'll quit on somebody as soon as we don't feel good about it. I'm not talking about staying in abusive relationships. That's a subject with its own path. Anyway, just my thoughts.

You know, some of us could have one heckuva stand-up comedy routine if only more people could relate to this stuff. Who on earth ever came up with idea of stringing chairs? I mean, talk about a waste of time and resources! We would even have work assignments dedicated to stringing chairs. Yep...the peak of leadership training.

Oh crap, socks, now you have me re-living the trauma of it all. I'd forgotten about all that! Ooh! I hated it when some self-righteous whatever would come along and re-adjust my holy spirit pin! It was so condescending. When someone did that you were supposed to be thankful. Yech! Of course, I ended up doing that too.

No.

You know, that is really funny, especially that way you put that, but I actually witnessED that happen at a Corps night. 3-piece suits were in vogue in my day, and some poor guy had his Holy Spirit (proper noun so it should be capitalized in this instance) pin on his jacket lapel, and his W.O.W. pin on his vest, ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE!!!!! Everybody knows that the holy spirit dove down toward the W.O.W. pin, and the pin should always be over your heart!!! WHAT WAS HE THINKING???

As far as your example, I think later in II Corinthians you find Paul advising the Church to let them back in. So on it goes, each one of us finding a Bible passage to support our position. I know what you're saying, though, about developing catch-phrases. It seems there are always people who want to reduce truths to tripe little catch phrases. To me, this waters down the impact of whatever the truth is. We've all heard plenty of catch phrases and pretty soon they become as meaningful as "Have a Coke and a smile", or "You deserve a break today" (I'm dating myself). If you really want to know, this question of separating the sinner from the sin is not hard to answer. I won't bore you with an answer because I think most of you already know what I would say.

Right, he bragged about his youngest daughter. Wordwolf said, "we know what ALL his children said and how THEY turned out". I'm not aware of anything that was said by the youngest daughter let alone the rest of the Wierwille children. As far as the how they turned out, is there something wrong with the way they turned out? Except of course, Donnie becoming V.P. of TWI and J.P. helping to start S.O.W.E.R.S.

There were times I've been an "evil, vicious man", just ask my first wife and daughter; they still love me. Other people love me too. Go figure.

If my memory serves me correctly, according to P-O-P he didn't want to do the businessman's class at Gunnison, but that he was talked into it by Bob W. At the time, I remember resenting that class being run for businessmen "who didn't have time", as if their time was more important than others. It cut across all of us, in my opinion, who had to convince everyone else that PFAL was worth the time commitment. I felt it further evidence that there were social classes within TWI. Normal dolts such as myself had to play by the rules but if one made a lot of money, exceptions were made for you. That is so obvious now that the statement I just made is laughable. But in 1984 I was just starting to see this stuff. Sorry, I guess that didn't exactly answer your question. No, I wasn't at the class, I was at home being angry about it.

I think T-Bone gets it.

We know what all his children said? Really? Is it written somewhere? I'm not being contentious, I'd really like to know because I wasn't aware of any public comments by any of his children. What's wrong with "how they turned out"? J.P., I guess, has that silly S.O.W.E.R.S. thing going on, but other than that....

Well there you go! Socrates and I didn't have the believing to see it through. Since it was in the senses world, the devil gave the idea to Al Gore. Now look at the mess, all because of me and Socrates!

Yeah, DW said that during '89 Corps week when LCM did his Galtians teaching. Talk about using the Bible to fit your own agenda!

Thanks Wordwolf, but we're wondering if anyone knows about V.P. having a stroke while he was teaching. I was at Emporia in my final year when he had his stroke. I don't recall that information being withheld, but maybe I'm wrong. That's just my own recollection. In fact, I think Craig discussed it later during a SNS, or some service from HQ. Of course, he was talking about it affected him.

I'm just not ready to concede that point. I think there are still good people out there with power, at least I hope so. I agree with everything else you say. Including the part where you said VP considered himself entitled to things because of the perceived "good" he did.

I don't think I was the particular guy because I didn't have a bike and I would not have been at your Advanced Class if you took it at Emporia. But I used to do stuff like that so it easily could have been at another place or time. So, FWIW, I apologize for these actions that were directed against you.

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Then he and his bull "Babe" moved the Word Over the World! That's right, VP always had a lot of bull with him.

I'm in the 11th Corps as well so I'm sure I know whoever that was. It was probably '89 and I'm wondering if it was when Don W. spoke in the WOW Auditorium during Corps Week (really Corps Days by then). I'm wondering because I had the same reaction. That was the year Martindale taught out of The Book of Galatians on the word "terasso". Basically, Martindale was saying Geer was full of it and trying to use the Bible to prove it. Craig and the BOT were breaking away from Geer. To set the context, flashback to the Fall of '82 which was the 11th Corps' final year in the stockade residence, Don met with the 11th Corps. The Corps Week before that was when a paper was read called, A Day with the Wierwilles. In that paper, VP was quoted as saying, "If the Wierwille family does not stand together on the Word, the Word of God will not live in this day and in this time." Don Wierwille was angry about that line. "I don't buy it! That the Word of God living would depend on the stand of one man, or one family! I don't buy it!" I was shocked. Here was the son of the MOGFOT disagreeing with his father on what dad had supposidely received via revelation. My opinion of Donald he was actually a doctor Wierwille substantially increased that day. Perhaps your friend was at that same meeting. Fast forward now to Corps Week '89. The same man, Donald Wierwille, stood in front of the entire Corps and referred to that part of that paper as reason the Corps should stand with him and his mother. It was a complete contradiction and it sealed for me that Don Wierwille was a liar and an opportunist. I wanted to go up front, grab that mike and say, "But that's not what you said a few years ago, Don!" I would have never made it on the stage and I knew that. I also knew that even if I did, Wierwille would either say I was lying, or he would have said he simply changed his mind. Still, I know what I heard. That sealed the deal for me right there. I was out. I wonder if your 11th Corps friend was at those same meetings I was and had the same reaction.