Broken Arrow

I always thought it was, "Et tu Howardus?", maybe it was, "Rosebud".

That's supposing he knows the difference.

Whoa, I never heard about that. I thought they won their case against the IRS.

Well, he certainly "mastered" some kind of bull.

Well, you're right, people should have started getting a clue but they didn't for the most part. Maybe we didn't want to have a clue and disturb our order of things. You gotta understand, the Man of God's words were above question. If Wierwille said Del Dunk@n was over the edge, you believed him. As big a name as Dunk@n was, Wierwille was much bigger. Who were you going to believe? Don't forget, the "green book" plainly said that the first step in the demise of the first century church was that they turned their backs on the Man of God. It was also completely unbelievable to me at the time that Wierwille or Martindale would engage in willful sin and most people, I think, thought like I did. Having said that, I will say that when Woltar Cimmuns resigned, THAT got some attention. That's when I personally started going, "hmmm, something's not right".

When I first went in the Corps I hated it, but I thought it was my own fault. It did get better for me by the time we graduated. Then we graduated and we went out on the field. Because I enjoy being tortured, I went WOW. Why? I don't know, perhaps I was mentally insane. After that I got married and started just being "Corps on the field". Soon we had a baby girl. Soon, I started realizing that everything was our fault. We used to joke that the motto of the Way Corps really was, "It's all my fault." As time went on, it became very apparent that the leadership at HQ was clueless as to what it was like being on the field, nor did they really care. You were to be all about TWI even if it meant living in poverty. I became more and more dissatisfied as time went on. Then the POP paper was read in April of '86. In '89 LCM issued his edict to choose between him and Geer, which I thought was ridiculous. So I left TWI and became a Geer-ite. I left that fellowship after awhile because I saw very little difference. Then I didn't do anything at all. So I disassociated myself from the Corps and TWI proper in '89. But I kept the thinking for many years after. In spite of everything I thought VP was right on. I didn't believe the people who were saying they were involved sexually with vp. So my departure was gradual and over time. Then in 1995 my wife and I split and my life was in shambles. I decided TWI and its teachings were pretty much ineffective and useless. So I completely quit, began going to a real church which is where I am today and I love it...most of the time. There was still one thing hanging out there and that was the things I kept hearing about Wierwille sexually taking advantage of young women. I didn't believe it at first, but I kept hearing it, some from people I knew. These women, though were not willing to discuss it very much, other than it happened. Who could blame them? I started wishing I could find someone who could be completely honest and detailed about her sexual encounters with Wierwille. How they happened and why they continued. A light bulb went off in my head and I started reading Greasespot which eventually led me to Kristin Skedell's book, Losing the Way. That's when I was able to completely write off TWI. That was in 2008. So you see, it took a long time, almost 20 years to get completely out of TWI and the Way Corps in my thinking. Sorry for the long-winded answer, but it was a long progression for me.

Right, but these guys were out and TWI would quickly spread rumors about them. That way, they had no public platform to say anything, and the people they talked to would not believe them because they had been discredited. That actually happened to a number of people.

Once someone is dead, no one can have them verify what they said on their deathbed. So, I always take it with a grain of salt when I hear that.

They were fired, discredited, and sometimes were even attacked by VP's dogs. Check out Dubofsky on Greasespot radio. Of course, that's after VP, but he talks about some other things.

Ohhhh! Sorry.

Sorry,I was merely dramatizing the event. I'm not sure how long the teaching actually was, but it was long and on the word "of".

Hmm...my ring just says, "Eat your familia and shut up."

So...you're saying there's no value in the 4 hour teaching on the word, "of"?

In my Corps, we collectively decided that the drool thing is what Moses was referring to when he warned about the "botch of Egypt". So, when it says, "Thou shalt be stricken with the botch of Egypt", it means you're going to fall asleep and drool in front of everybody during meetings.

Thank you, Thomas.

Is "Aurelia" the same tune as Elvis' "Love Me Tender"? You do realize, don't you, that "incarnate" means "embodied in flesh, personified". So the Holy Scriptures/Bible would not fit that description. Jesus Christ would, you know, the Word in flesh?

How do you make the chart?

Prior to graduating from high school I was at a party where there was a lot of alcohol and I was consuming as well. The problem was, I was underrage along with a few other people. There were Fellowlaborers present, one of whom later became a reverend. This would have been before you were in FLO, Waysider. Anyway, the Limb Coordinator at the time, made an appearance, took a look around and left without saying a word. The Fellowlaborer's eyes became wide as saucers! The guy who later was ordained just kind of hung his head and went, "Oh no". I heard later they got popped pretty good. In retrospect, I don't know why he just didn't end the party right there and say for the benefit of us all what was wrong. Hey, I thought we were all just having fun, I knew I was. I'm not sure if Watered Garden was in FLO then, but I know her husband was. He was not at that party, but I'm certain he would remember the incident.

I was in the Way Corps. My first year VP did the teachings, my final year Walter did them. I don't recall much about the Corps teachings to be honest. I liked the debriefing we did after the meeting, though. It's kind of funny, but 4 years prior to being in the Corps, I was in the College Division and I do remember those teachings. Some of those classes were useful like O.T History, N.T. History, and Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. Probably because those classes, at least at that time, were pretty basic. There wasn't anything taught in those classes that wouldn't have fit in any other Bible College. At least that's the way I remember it. By the way, Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ was really just kind of a class that looked at the parables. Again, that's my memory. Some of the classes were pure garbage.

I remember that, but it was in 1981 during an Advanced Class at RC. Yeah, he definitely said they were freaks and something about America glorifying weakness or some such drivel. But apparently not for the Limb Coordinator, right? Except that the "drugs" would be alcohol.

"Rosey-roo?"

I've entertained the thought from time to time that he repeated lies so often that he himself began to believe they were true. I know that sounds weird. I dunno, is that even possible?

I don't think I believe that stuff VP taught about judgement. I think he was hoping there would be no judgement for him. The Bible clearly says, even in the epistles, that we are all going to have to give an account to God. I don't know what that fully means, but I don't think people that hurt people are going to get off scott free. By the way, does anyone know the difference between "Scot free", and just "free"? Do you think there's "Irish free", "English free", "French free, etc.? Maybe there's a "Jim free, and "Jack free"? These are the types of things that make me lie awake all night.

I notice the last choice says, "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!" Don't you know...no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

SoCrates, that just isn't true. Did you mean to say Constantine instead of Charlemagne? Charlemagne lived quite a bit after the canon of scripture was decided. Canonization was decided by a council of bishops (The word "bishop" was different than what we think today when we hear that word). The decisions made were far from arbitrary. Their criterion was what was already commonly believed by those of the Christian faith. So, it wasn't as if the council invented books or dictated new doctrine. The same thing is true of the Trinity, by the way, but that's a different topic. As far as the gnostic gospels, have you ever read a gnostic gospel? If you do, you can easily see why they would hot have been accepted as canon. They weren't "repressed" as the DaVinci Code would suggest. The gnostic gospels in many instances contradict what was written in what is considered canon. They were also written, or supposedly surfaced, after the death of the original 12 Apostles. You know, of course, the books of the old testament were already set. The early Christians did not see a need for a written canon as long as the original 12 disciples were around. When it was apparent they were going to die prior to Christ's return, they started seeing the importance of written records. They needed to arrive at a consensus as to what would be accepted as doctrine.