Broken Arrow

Then there were the VPW "holy cards". A Wallet-sized picture of VP standing with a dark blue suit and a Bible. I brought a "new person" to the Rock one year and he took one look at those and went "Yech!" and he never came back. Said we worshipped Wierwille...can you imagine that? The heathen!

And that's another thing, thanks for bringing this up, isn't that a run-on, and redundant sentence? I'm talking about the definitions from the A-Class. That always bothered me.

That entire place is falling apart. TWI really did try to hold that place together but it's just too old. Anderson Library is a beautiful building. I hope they don't have to demolish it.

I'm not sure what is worse; an ugly TWI "Ho-Ho card", or one of those holiday newsletters from a friend who rattles on for 3 pages about how great their life is. You know, ones that go something like, "Billy got his blue belt in tae-kwan-do, and Sheila is in Switzerland studying the effects of global warming on tadpoles. She'll graduate with honors, as usual hee-hee!" I've always wanted to send out a newsletter saying, "We're very happy this year because our daughter Sally finally completes her drug rehab program. Her counselor is hopeful that this time it will work. As far as our son George, we're very proud of him. He's come a long way since trying to stab his teacher during math class. (Boy were we embarrassed!) Carl has promised that this year he is going to get serious about finding a job!"

I'm sure they got a better deal from OU. OU was in dire financial straights at the time.

I don't think there was a manifestation emphasis that night. My recollection is that VP used that time to showcase Way Productions. There was a lot of press there.

Sorry, I always thought "apostate" was someone who not only left a group, but also adulterated the group's doctrine.

Double-posted. I know that in the U.S. a person may have their record "expunged". I don't know what the criteria is, however.

I just was curious to see if you had anything to back up your previous statement about the U.S. not being good at rehabilitation. Your response was more about what you feel is a fallacy in the U.S. justice system of which I agree. Nevertheless, I don't think anybody is very effective at rehabilitation, meaning permanently altering one's behavior into that of a law-abiding citizen. You're right, any further discussion about this should be on a separate thread.

Because if they aren't false they aren't apostates.

What can be done now? You can't make 'em pay, you can't get your youth back, or your wasted time.

Granted. Now, what country is good at rehabilitating people back into society?

Is society/culture is accepting of folks like vpw etc.? Yes, as long as they don't get caught. That's my take on society, anyway.

Wow! That was great! Was your father still living when you made your discovery?

Even still, I believe a Texan would consider an attack on say, Norfolk, as a personal attack because they consider themselves Americans. If Alaska were attacked by a foreign government I would also take that as a personal attack on my country. I hope they feel the same. Don't know much about Alaska. Maybe Clay, if he's lurking, can give us a perspective. Since the U.S. actually conquered Hawaii, there are still some there that are upset about that.

I knew Holland is The Netherlands, I don't know why I used the word, "in". To answer your question and speaking for myself, I think of myself as American first and Ohioan second. I think most Americans think the same way. Unlike Europe, most Americans speak the same language. That is not to say we completely understand each others' accents. Your question is of particular interest to me because there was a time when Americans identified more with their state than the union. Even at our inception many in the Northern states wanted to see slavery abolished in the South(many in the South did too but that's another story). The debate intensified as to whether the federal government had the right to mandate law over the will of the individual states. Eventually this debate resulted in what we call "The Civil War", and it changed the way people viewed the nation and themselves as citizens of the nation. Sorry to continue the derail but I find your perspective as a European very interesting.

And Holland is in The Netherlands, not "Never Never Land". As far as the EU, I'm sure a lot of folks see it as one more step toward one-world government which is a sign of the "end times" as discussed in The Book of Revelation. I'm just addressing why some are opposed, or feel threatened by the EU. I personally think that the United States needs a strong Europe. We need allies, and we need for them to be strong. There have been many times both have turned to the other in a time of need. George W. Bush said the U.S. has no greater friend than England. That probably would have hurt my feelings if I were Canadian, but I believe the point is well taken. Competition is good for the economy and Europeans are simply looking for ways to be stronger. It simply means the U.S. also needs to be more competitive. I don't understand what you mean when you speak of "U.S. economic repression". You're not the first non-American I've heard say that, but I don't see it. I would like to be enlightened. I have never thought about the U.S. states "being one block". That is a very interesting perspective to me. I see it as different as the EU because in the U.S. the federal government has the final say. With the EU there has to be consensus amongst the countries, correct?

Frankly, that's a lot more of an honor than going to some ol' inauguration ball; probably more fun too.

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The thing is Excie, he very well may have. Back in the 30's and 40's my parents, who were about his age give or take, tell me hitching was fairly common and fairly safe. People did it all the time during the depression and the war. A totally different culture than what we were living in.

You're right, of course, but here's the rub. I'm going to make a statement I can't back up :o. I think we all know the balance in the things you mentioned. As soon as we try to define it, it gets all screwed up. I don't know if it's cultural or what, but we (meaning humanity or at least western humanity) are just infatuated with hard and fast rules and that's when things break down. The only people that bring up stuff like this (not you so much) are people that want to bend the system, and there are plenty of those. Until mankind can just do the right thing without it having to be defined down to the last little detail we're going to be stuck on about everything. I think animals have rights. Actually, what I really think is we have a responsibility to the animals. Animals for food? Sure! Animal rights people are more concerned with these stories you hear about when someone who keeps their dogs in a pen and gives them no food and water for days, or tortures them, or makes them fight other animals for gambling purposes. I have nothing against whaling. Leave some people to their own devices, though and they'll kill every single whale. Everyone knows what to do. But those who want to circumvent the system for their own benefit want rules so they can bend them as much as possible.

FWIW, I agree with most of what you're saying, not so much the way you're saying it. I don't think, however, that God says anywhere that man will rule the world. If anything, man is ruling the world now, and doing a lousy job of it. Even though I don't think there is enough evidence to prove global warming, I am still all in favor of stewardship. So I'm all in favor of having clean air, clean water, etc. That's not worshipping the creation. That's just taking care of the place.

You need to be more like me and only hang with people that agree with your line of thinking. Then the world starts making much more sense.

I thought the thing about anything non-TWI as being worldly until it came to a Republican candidate was kind of funny too. Maybe it was the fact that Gahagen was Republican, I don't know. Please excuse my ignorance, being a typical American that thinks the whole world revolves around only our issues, what do you mean when you say "EU"? Is that the Euro, or are you talking about Europe? By the way, the U.S. mainland was invaded by the British during the war of 1812. They almost burned down the White House. There a famous story about Dolly Madison, wife of President James Madison, who, when being evacuated rescued George Washington's portrait at the expense of her personal belongings. She was sure the British would have destroyed it, which they probably would have. The country that hasn't been invaded for over a century, maybe two centuries, is England. England was bombed during WW II, but never invaded. So, you're friend was wrong even in terms of what you call the "political U.S."