ihrleben

Truth be told, many denominations feel that they've got the Scriptures figured out and that everyone else has it wrong. They state frequently that those who do not believe their way are doomed for hell. As a military chaplain I see it all of the time, and frequently have discussions with individuals over this issue. I don't believe any one group has it spot on. I do believe, however, that we are to do our best every day to serve the Lord and to understand the Bible through God's leading not our own understanding or through the understanding of any one denomination. The one clear cut criteria I see in the Bible for being a "believer" is accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.... I have yet to find a Scripture that says you're saved only if your a part of a certain denomination. Now that I've taken the scenic route to my conclusion, one thing I don't frequently hear is that the Bible was written for one faith group and no one else.... In effect, I see your point when it come to TWI.

LOL.... Bless you Ham! __________________________________________________________________________ FOR THE CRANKY PEOPLE IN THE THREAD Hey! Try to play nice with the other kids! This playground is big enough for all of us. The bottom line is this is about fighting them, not fighting each other; so, kiss and hug or whatever it is you do and make up already.

NO WAY!!!! YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!!!! Oh that's disgusting! This happened in Arizona? Well, isn't that just WIZARD! ________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, TWI is incorporated in AZ. I outta know, I live there and a group of Twiggers meet down the street from my house. Anyone care to go to a fellowship meeting with me?? ;) Just kidding, nobody shoot!

My story is a bit different than most. I grew up in the Way believing their teachings without questions. Into adult life I carried many of those beliefs with me without even realizing it. It influenced my life in ways that I can't remember in at this point. When my family walked away from the Way I was afraid to attend any church out of fear that another man would be made out to be God. Thankfully, I knew at least that much, that no man is God. What God did for me after losing the Way changed my life forever. He said, audibly, it's not about religion, it's about faith.... Do you have faith in me? I answered yes. At that point God began the fundamental changes in my life, and started to weed out incorrect Way teachings. The one thing I keep with me from those times is the ability to pray, and it was prayer that set allowed God to work in my life. So, no matter what happens it's key to keep praying because God will weed out the tumbleweeds. I recently attended a Twig meeting, and for those of you who were wondering, not much has changed. The "man of god" gives his interpretations of Scriptures while utilizing various sources and no one thinks to question cause he sounds like the authority--Crawled under my skin like a Guinea worm.... :blink: I can't begin to tell you how scared I was to walk into that meeting. I was literally shaking from all the emotion/memories and afraid of being discovered for the interloper I was. :ph34r: I can't begin to tell you how hard it is to play stupid and ignorant of all things Way when you're not. Of course, I couldn't keep my mouth shut on the Biblical stuff, so, I challenged some of what this guy was teaching. We had one young fella in there who didn't have my Biblical or Way background, and it took a force of nature to keep me from ripping him out of there. By the end of the meeting they asked me what I do, needless to say, I didn't tell them. The one comment that was made was I know my Scripture. Oops! Should kept my big mouth shut.

Good Day all! It perplexes me as well why people would choose to stay with this group, so, I intend to find out. I suspect the reasons are much the same for Mormons. For Mormons, they seem to stay for the close knit community and family relationships. I know that's what I found appealing about the Latter Day Saints. I was a misfit everywhere I went, but this group was willing to accept me just the way I was--society's unwanted. Granted, I have strong theological convictions that prevented me from going any further, but it would be easy to fall into the arms of Latter Day Saint love and forsake convictions. These groups prey on those who find themselves on the fringes emotionally. It's easy to turn a blind eye when all you want is to be loved and accepted. Acceptance is a need we all have, and it runs to the core of who we are. All our problems can be traced back to Acceptance in one form or another if the problem is followed to it's root. Ask a psychologist. Any psychologists available to expound on the topic?

Yep, hot button issue. Of course women should be in all facets of ministry! I'll answer questions as they come, cause I don't really feel like writing an exposition on the subject. However, it does make for a great discussion. I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. Questions? We can start in the OT or NT if anyone would like.....

I agree with you, God is judge. It's scripture. Christ acts on our behalf as, shall we say, our defense lawyer and the Holy Spirit comforts and advises (shares wisdom).

This is a hot button issue, so, no trashing, bashing or character attacking allowed. This is meant to be a place where we can come together, discuss our points of view and change perspectives. Ok, I'll start.... I've view the Trinity as three parts. God, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has their own job. God the decision maker and judge, Christ the Savior of the world and Holy Spirit the comforter and advisor. Although God can be viewed as the head, I believe it's more like the ultimate team. Each part loving the other completely. There is no division in the ranks. Decisions are made collectively. It is the example of servant leadership. The Holy Spirit bowing to the Son, the Son to the Father, and around we go.... As great leaders go, each submits and serves the other in love; thereby, no one part is greater than another servanthood. Each part is seperate. God is God, Jesus his Son and the Holy Spirit. I do not believe Jesus is God, just like I don't believe the Holy Spirit is God. I believe they are one in thought, but seperate parts. Onto Muslims, they seem willing to accept this explanation. I also do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Christians, during the Crusades, have been just as guilty of converting people by the sword as Muslims. Here in Afghanistan, terrorists are not considered Muslims. They're often hated and viewed as trash.... Many true Muslims fight alongside our forces over here, giving their lives for this country. Often those who are against terrorism place their own lives at risk. I admire these people, as share frequent converstaions with them. Ok, now it's your turn.

My bad.... Typed too soon.... :) Thanks for the correct. Thing is, I don't get is why fire someone as dedicated as him... If I were an occult, I would've kept him and tolerated the little irritations. To stop the itch, irritations and rashes are best handled with Cortizone cream. Rub a little on, the itch stops, and you go on about your business. Scratch, well, it spreads and ..... we know the rest of the story..... Not that I've ever had a rash or anything.... **A little humor and sarcasm there** ;)

All I can say is.... Why did JL break away from the Way when he seems to appreciate their doctrine as much as they do.... JL is no different that those the are a part of the Way in his beliefs, and if he thinks otherwise he's sadly mistaken. All he's done is allowed for continued abuses, and the creation of another occult that robs people. Great man of God my foot! I take that back, not my foot.... I'd use my foot, but I like my foot and my boot. Could see it now, give him a swift Godly kick in the behind. It would be a three legged race, him running for the hospital and me trying to get my foot out of his butt. Other than that I'd lose my boot and nothing would be accomplished. <_< **Sigh**

The thing is, you all weren't stupid. You're intelligent beautiful people. You were brainwashed. They used your faith and desire to serve the Lord for their own purposes. I understand a thing or two about occults. From the outside looking in it's a beautiful thing. They don't start out with the crazy nonsense, no, they start out with the stuff that sounds right and fits what we understand. Then they take the truth, and twist in tiny little ways that barely noticeable until it all adds up to one big fact. They'll claim it's right, then they use fear, peer pressure and religion to keep you in line, and to prevent you from questioning. Because we were integrated slowly we don't quite recognize the lie until it's almost too late. That is not your fault, it's theirs. Your faith, sincere desire to serve the Lord and emotions were manipulated by by experts. It's the proverbial frog in water on a hot stove. The frog doesn't realize the water is getting hot until it's boiling, but by then it's too late. It's kinda like the German people during World War II. Hitler didn't jump in and start killing Jews. He started slowly. When he did try to implement the final solution too early, the people rejected it. So, he took the road I mentioned above. When German citizen say they didn't know about the killings, many of them weren't lying--they were programed not to look. God removed you from this situation before it was too late. My mom was floating in the same boat as you were when it came to standing up to my father. I've grown up since then, and I am a new person, and God has been faithful. I don't blame my parents for what The Way did. You shouldn't blame yourself.

I wanted to put this in in response to the comment about Adam and Eve, so, a few things can be clarified.... Genesis 3:6 (KJV) And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make on wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat, and gave also to her husband WITH her; and he did eat. Adam was with Eve, therefore, without excuse. He wasn't out in the woods praying or naming animals as some would suppose, he was right there with Eve. The message was given directly to him from God, and he should have spoken up. I can't help but be moved by what you've written here. TWI tore my family apart. It was just as bad for the kids. I was a kid growing up in TW from about the time I was two until I was 15. My father was a horrible man, and The Ways teaching only allowed him to get away with what he was doing. He committed adultery multiple times, and my mom turned a blind eye to it cause he was the "man of God." She figured she wasn't meeting his "sexual needs." I also remember it being taught by VP that wives/women are supposed to meet a man's sexual needs so he can focus on the spiritual things....sheesh! My father abused us in multiple ways that I don't care to disclose, but believe me if you can imagine it it''s not far off. My mom turned a blind eye to this as well because he was "the man of God," and she figured she couldn't cope with out him. First came God (at least that's the rumor). Then he was the Head, he comes first in everything cause he's the man of God.... Then us kids.... Ack! It was awful. When we finally broke away for TW my father was kind enough to rip everything I understood as God out from under me, and replaced it with nothing. I remember when I was 13, my father confined me to the attic. I told him that I needed to use the restroom, and he refused. I was so fed up with his stuff that I stood there on the steps leading up to the attic, looked him straight in the eye and ....ed myself. After all was said and done, he never denied me the right to use the bathroom again. You're absolutely right, what TW teaches is disastrous for relationships and children.

Not going as planned, satellite probs, sorry for multiple postings

Just read the excerpts of the John Lynn letter. I only have one thing to say about his letter..... Are you S**TIN ME! I'm going to go and watch Teletubbies on the telly so I can numb my brain a bit more.... Maybe I'll drool on my shirt while I'm at it.... **Leaves room**

An accusation, hardly. The bottom line is there are those who are doing this, maybe not you, but then again who knows. Unforgiveness is poison. That's a fact, not an accusation.