DocHoliday

The vast majority of people prefer to have their views handed to them. That's why following "the party line" is so prevalent, whether it is political, religious, etc. It's easier to simply to accept a "platform". Most "platforms" do contain some level of truth, but it takes a great deal of work to synthesize a position of one's own. In today's society, most people are too distracted to do this. Whether it is distractions caused by the stress of everyday life, such as economic pressures; or just the sheer information overload of the news and social medias, msot people are just submerged in what has been called the "information superhighway". This suits the powers-that-be of any infrastructure to a "T":, from a fellowship, to a local school board to the White House, . Things are much easier for the status quo is no one is questioning things. I suspect sometimes that this "overload" is deliberate. I regard much of the explosion of mass entertainment and "social media" (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) as filling a role sort of like the games in Ancient Rome.

"Never again, will I allow any one group have that much control over me." I think that both sentiments are good. Personally, I will not allow any group to have that much control over me again (even though I was only in TWI a short time, I spent far too long there after I recognized what was happening.) But, like Broken Arrow suggests, I do not automatically shun all groups, but I do have a healthy level of skepticism.

I think this is very true. My experiences seem to be a bit different than most accounts I've read here in that it wasn't the higher leadership who were most abusive during my stint in TWI, but the lower leaders and the members. The branch coordinator was a wimp. He stood back and let others do the "confronting", while he nervously hovered in the background. The household coordinator was a little dictator, and he was aided and abetted by one of the couples, the wife of which seemed to be the real power in the household. Anything the nasty old biddy said was accepted without question. The husband desperately tried to posture like he was wearing the pants in the family in accordance with TWI doctrine. The household joes constantly blathered about how "the Word is not always nice" and "everything is not always pleasant", until they started reminding me of Himmler's speech to the SS about the need to be "hard". Indeed, my former Household leaders had more than a passing resemblance to Brownshirts. The Household leadership and witch-behind-the-throne had more than a few sociopathic traits too. They lacked any sort of empathy for anyone. They believed THEY were the sole arbiters of right and wrong. They expected everyone to obey them without question. They were cowards as well, only saying anything when gang was standing behind them. I lived in the Sofla area for eight years after I bailed out of TWI, and certainly never expected anyone to ever come forth with anything even hinting of regret, much less an apology. I was not wrong. About a year after I split from TWI, I ran into the girl who introduced me to TWI, and who had stood and let the Household Hitler scream and yell (literally) without saying a word. Amazingly, she looked as if she actually expected me to dash over to her and gallantly bow with all smiles. I purposefully waited to see if she would approach me with anything like remorse, but of course it didn't happen. My guess is that the odds of getting an apology out of anyone still active in TWI are slim to none, and slim just walked out the door! This is just more evidence that leaving was the right thing to do.

Personally, I would have to see a lot more evidence of any "change" than what I've heard anywhere so far. Your last sentence is the key for me, too. For ten years I lived in the same place I lived when I was in the Way in Florida. My former Fellowship was not in my town, but there was a Fellowship run by family members of the key playahs in my former fellowship, who knew exactly where to find me, and only a few years after I left the 5th Reich (TWI) I ran into people from my former Fellowship. From what I was told over and over in TWI, if you wrong someone you A) acknowledge your wrongdoing, B) genuinely seek forgiveness, B) don't do it again. But I never heard a word from anyone. The people I crossed paths with looked like they didn't know me. But OK, maybe the people in my former Fellowship were just manipulative scum. More importantly, so far there has been no official recognition or repudiation of TWI's routine abuse from TWI. So, no, I don't buy anything about fundamental changes. Just for bits and giggles, let's contrast that with a local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Different kind of beastie, to be sure, but sort of the same principle. For years their leadership treated people like garbage. About five years later, when the old guard was gone, a new officer came and told me that they knew a lot of negative things had happened under the old clique, that things had changed, and they invited me to come and talk to them. Now, that's how it's done. TWI? Nope. Too many of the same yay-hoos are still there.

I was lucky enough to discover Waydale while it was still on the web, but had stopped being updated. I found it right when TWI had turned into a bad experience for me, and I was looking for information. While I knew intellectually that what people in my Household were saying was wrong, when ten people are howling at you and accusing you of being wrong, it's hard not to start doubting yourself. Waydale was great, because I saw that others had the same experiences I was going through, almost like it was a script. While I was going to leave TWI anyway, reading Waydale made it easier. I realized that far from being so concerned with Love and Jesus, my Household leaders were little Tyrants who reveled in controlling others.

Your abuse by proxy reference is a valid one. I think that everyone who sat by and let abuse go one were indeed, at the very least, guilty of empowering the Movers and Shakers. That being said, I can sympathise with some people more than others, for example people who were primarily involved because of their spouse, etc. Especially if they did not go out of their way to abuse others. Some people may have had more "awareness" than others. In my own former household, I have little sympathy for anyone. They were all relatively intelligent and "aware" people. Looking into their eyes, I felt strongely that they full well *knew* what was wrong and right. They chose to do whatever benefited them the most in the Way. The fact that you are willing to apologize for some of your actions makes you a FAR better person than anyone I knew in my Household and Branch. The closest thing to remorse I ever saw was when one of the men in the Household couldn't meet my gaze after a "meeting". I ran into one of the girls months after I bailed, and she acted puzzled when I didn't run over and chat like nothing ever happened. And she was one of the main participants. One of the primary reasons I bailed was because I did not want to be party to the crap I saw going on. But then again, I had only myself to worry about. (Not counting a slight romantic interest.) It was far easier for me to ditch than it may have been for others. We all make mistakes, and being willing to acknowledge them and ask forgiveness is a huge step in balancing the sheet. Oh, if only there were more like you in my former branch!

Anyone know Rich O'Neal? He was a branch coordinator in South Florida in 2000.

First, there is no question about it being "as bad as you make out". Just look at the legal issues about TWI, the old Waydale site, and look at the testimonies of people here. It was my impression that one of the main purpose of GSC is to provide a place where people can get support and share their experiences of TWI. Second, I DID "just get out". If you have a problem with reading these posts, my advice is to simply ignore them. Also, it is not really "recrimination". I addressed this issue on another thread, but I'll share it here as well. Speaking just for myself, I am not posting here because I have not "moved on", or because of "recrimination". I am here because for years, I had no one to talk to about TWI whatsoever. People who had not experienced it had absolutely no clue about what I was I was talking about. For years, I also wondered if my experiences were typical, or if I had somehow "caused" my experiences. After reading other people's acounts, I realize that it WAS typical. This was important to me, and I feel that it is important to others in the same situation. If people have a need or desire to discuss these issues, by all means let them. Why should someone say they shouldn't? I'd like t o make another point: TWI had their "say" EVERY DAY I was involved. I was not allowed to have my say. Now I can. Now I will. If this is a problem for anyone, I do apologize. But just as I do not try to dictate what others say here, I will not have it imposed on me. One thing some people just don't seem to understand is that for a spiritual person, there is someone far more damaging about having the "Word of God" twisted and used to abuse you, than the usual negative things that happen in our daily life. I am happy that some people had very positive and enlightening experiences in TWI. Not all of us did. I do not judge their topics and/or reasons for posting. They need to accord me and others the same consideration.

This sure brings back memories! It was the same in my Fellowship. No one was really had anything or knew anything. It was a handful of people pretending to be important, and thought they were superior to everyone because of "The Word". They were a bunch of desperate people with nothing else but TWI who thought that anyone else who came was desperate too. I remember The Girl's mom imperiously insisting that I join another Fellowship, run by her sister and brother in law. (Right, Mom, so I can listen to your other wacked out daughter!) The guy was some sort of mechanic, and one day he came into my workplace asking for me with grease all over him. I was obviously very busy, and he was trying to chat about his stupid Fellowship. "What a class act", I remember thinking. "Join another fellowship" my a**! I'd rather go get tied up and whipped at the local Fetish Night!

More like commitment to the Nut House! I remember sitting in class and nearly biting my knuckles off thinking "do all these people really buy this junk?" I mean, Pangaea breaking apart in the blink of an eye.... And at one class they were talking about how "The Thirteenth Tribe" 'proved' that the modern Jewish people are not the descendants of the Old Testament tribes of Israel. I owned a copy of the book, and it said nothing of the sort. I was amazed!

On another thread we were discussing how girls would lure you into the Household by acting like they were romantically interested in you. But as soon as you took the class they ditched you, and no one seemed to care if you dropped out or not. (This happened to me.) This made no sense. Why would they make all that effort to deceive you in order to bring you in, and not seem to care if they actually retained you? This seemed like a waste of effort. Someone mentioned that class attendance was very important, and if this is the only thing they were concerned with, it sort of makes sense. Did the leadership only keep track of the classes, or did they follow attendance in the Fellowship as well? Honestly, these were some of the dumbest people I've ever seen. They didn't even have the sense to try to cover their tracks. I remember the mother of The Girl babbling about how she was only trying to being me "to the Word". So, it's Ok to lie and manipulate someone as long as it's for "The Word". If they had had any sense, The Girl would have gradually disassociated herself from me, then after a "decent interval" broken things off over some contrived issue. Then it wouldn't have been obvious. But to do it the very next day after the class ended was just like putting up a billboard! What a bunch of morons. I called the Branch Head out on it, and point blank told him that it was obvious she was only pretending to be my great "friend" to get me to take the class. He was a total wimp and stammered all over himself. So much for the Big Bad Defender of the The Word. It's very interesting about the "Homo" charge being used to kick people out. The Girl was best friends with a gay girl, and while her parents frowned on it, no one in the Fellowship or Branch ever made an issue of it. I had forgotten that in addition to the guy they kicked out for letting his girlfriend move in with him, they also kicked out a whole family, but they were very closemouthed about why. So, I saw the same number of people booted vs. people who stayed. This just does not seem to be a very effective way to run a group. Say, do you think TWI joined the CIA? They don't seem to be able to hide much, either. It would explain a lot....

It's funny how even before the Martindale scandal broke, as a newbie I could tell immediately that my Fellowship and Branch were having problems recruiting and retaining people. I've detailed my own experiences on other threads, but in a summary it seemed like both my Twig and Branch leadership were the height of incompetence. They seemed to have no idea of how to manage people, much less motivate them. They seemed to be going by some weird set of rules that came from a time when people were beating down TWI doors and begging to get in (if such a time ever existed, it sure didn't by the time I was in!). When their high-handed intimidation techniques didn't work, my leaders were clearly at a loss. I remember thinking "did these bozos have any sort of training at all???"

I got mine back in 2000, so they may have changed.... Mine is red and white, and is a 1995 edition.

There could be episodes like: TWI's version: "How Speaking in Tongues Saved My Job" Reality: "This guy's a nut: don't fire him until we get the Swat Team here!" or TWI: "Bravely Confronting the Adversary" Reality: "Ambushing a shy, outnumbered member with silly BS." And you know, I think I figured out why dancing, dating, etc. was called "Bringing People to the Word"! VPW didn't really have a good grasp of Greek. He looked at the wrong manuscript, and got Bacchus mixed up with the New Testament!

Hey, I don't take it personal at all! Thanks for your reply! I know what you mean, once I started looking at some of the Waydale documents still up on other sites and here at GSC, I was astounded. It's been actually sort of a relief to find out it happened to others, too. That's a riot about the girl being engaged! Man, they sure do take those classes seriously! In fact, I suspected that something was going on between The Girl in my case and the Fellowship Coordinator. The way he flipped out when he found out we had dated was just abnormal, and I realized later it seemed a lot like jealousy. He touched her a bit too intimately for a married man, and she spent a lot of evenings at his house supposedly doing TWI "lesson plans". Yeah, maybe VPW lesson plans, heh. With people like this, who needs reality TV?

Hi Javajane, I don't think she intended the situation to occur. But at the same time, she knew what was happening was wrong. I could see it in her eyes. What I do hold her accountable for is standing by while they changed history, i.e. claiming that we never dated, never had a relationship outside TWI, and didn't say a word. After the FC, HC, and men of the Household stood and screamed at me for an hour in the parking lot in front of the entire Branch, I was visibly shaken. The FC was literally howling that I was delusional, and we "never had a date". She saw this happen and never said a word, even in private. I would been Ok with it if she had even called and said something like "I can't go against my family and the Way, I'm sorry". I would have bailed and not thought the worse of her. But to stand by and say nothing, well, I wouldn't even do this to my enemies! Later her mother was ranting about how the only reason The Girl ever spoke with me in the first place was to bring me to 'The Word". I replied with details of some of our dates: dancing, dining, movies, concerts, etc. and said that if this is how people were brought to "The Word", then the Apostles must have been the most Partying Dudes in the Ancient World. No wonder they fell asleep in the Garden! The Girl actually called me and ordered me to never tell what we had done together because it was her "personal life". Wow. In effect, she was asking me to "cover" for her! She was more than capable of misleading her parents and TWI. One of her best friends was Gay, and she spent a lot more time socializing with her than TWI knew about. I think that part of this was the dichotomy you spoke about with the Real World vs. The Way. I suspect I was "sacrificed" to appease her parents and TWI. The ironic thing is that about a year and a half later, I believe that she left TWI. Weirdly enough, her best friend in one of the other Branches actually tracked me down. She asked me if I had spoken with The Girl lately. I was so stunned to see anyone from TWI, and from the nature of the question, I just shook my head. Before I could say anything she ran off. In retrospect, I figured that she had bailed and no one knew where she was. But why they believed that she might have spoken with me was something I've never figured out. The whole thing is just an example of the duplicity that was evidently rampant in TWI, with all the talk of "love" and "fellowship", but actions doing the opposite. My cats have more compassion than that, heh. One thing I'll say, my Sundays were a lot less stressful after I jumped ship:) On something totally different, I'm glad that I took the Foundational class, because I got to keep the red binder. People who never heard of TWI don't believe me until I show it that book. Their reactions are a real hoot! Zey may hav von der battle, but I got der book! Ha!

Thanks for your insight, javajane! For a long time I believed that The Girl was sort of a victim, too, and that she had simply been pressured by her domineering mother and TWI. We had talked for three months before going out, and even on our date, she never mentioned TWI. It was only when I met her parents that TWI came up. She even told me that her parents would have "problems" with her dating me. In restrospect, this must have been the "setup". The flies in the ointment about my view of her as victim were the facts that she never contacted me again, even to say "I'm sorry for what happened", even when I saw her again at a dance club a year later. This is what she would have done is she were the good person I thought she was. And the way she promptly showed up with another guy in tow at fellowship the week after Der Vay Leadership "put me in my place". Safe to say I was scammed. Fool me once.... Best Regards, Doc

You are exactly right, and these are the same tactics that have been used by cults and other abusive organizations for ages. It is basic psychology. One might ask the same questions of someone in an abusive marriage or relationship "why did you stay?"or "no one stopped you from leaving?" But unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. As you have pointed out, when someone's whole life is wrapped up in someone or something; and they are isolated from outside support, it's not as easy as it seems. Even effective salesmen know how to manipulate people. It's why scams proliferate. Anyone skilled at manipulation techniques can successfully find 'marks'. Salesmen, politicians, you name it. Especially when a family is involved, it can be very difficult to leave. If it were simply a case of exercising free will, legions of counselors, pyschologists, and social workers would have had to make other career choices! Looking around my Household, I saw people who desperately wanted to be "belong", which is a basic human need. Like many other organizations, TWI took advantage of this. I was lucky. I recognized the manipulation being used by my Fellowship Coordinator and Branch Coordinator early on. They used classic cult tactics. First, they tried to isolate me from my non-TWI friends: "only associate with Believers", "avenues for the Adversary", "stay firm in Da Word", yada, yada, yada. They tried to present themselves assome sort of surrogate family. 'We're here to help", "come to us with your problems", more yada. Then they tried to make TWI your entire social life: meetings, fellowships, social outings, still more yada. Then they used the old Basic Training techniques of "break 'em down, build 'em back up", so that your self-esteem is wrapped up in their approval. Dsyfunctional parents do the same thing. I simply saw TWI as part of my life, not the whole thing . But I quickly saw that TWI would not accept this and brooked no competition. Even though I saw what was happening, it was not easy to leave. I had feelings for a member of the Household and erroneously, as it turned out, I saw her as a victim. It was not an easy choice, even though I had no firm ties to TWI. I can only imagine what it must have been like for people who grew up in that atmosphere.

Thankfully not! For awhile I almost began believing it was all a "misunderstanding", but then I saw the writing on the wall and bailed. There is one thing I can't figure out, though. Maybe I just don't know TWI well enough: to make a long story short, I had joined TWI after meeting a girl and going out with her. He parents and TWI did not consider me to be acceptable for her, so they stepped on her to end it. She complied, but we were still close, or at least that's what she told me. When I signed up for the Foundational class, she decided to take it with me. She got closer to me again, calling me three times a day, we went out after the classes, etc. But the day the class ended, she cut off all contact. The Fellowship and Branch leadership stepped in and told me she was "nothing" but my "sister in Christ". Her mother declared that the had only spoken to me in the first place to bring me to The Word. I would never speak to her outside of fellowship again, and even then, only if I "got there early to help set up the chairs". [Thank you sir, can I have another?]Then the whip came down from the Fellowship and Branch leadership, so after this kind of stuff I jumped ship like the last man on the Titanic. What I have never been able to understand is, why was it so important for me to attend the Foundational class that she would make that sort of subterfuge and effort? Did someone get brownie points? I point-blank asked her mother this question, and she declared that "the Adversary makes every effort to stop people from hearing The Word", so it was important for her daughter to "shepard" me during the class. I thought this was insane. What difference did it make if I took the class, if they were going to treat me so badly afterwards that I quit TWI? At first, I thought maybe my attendance made the Fellowship look good, but on second thought, my subsequent leaving would have negated this. Is there anything in TWI that explains this, or is it just a case of trying to apply logic to the illogical?

When I joined TWI in 2000, there was no trace of genuine love and caring in my Household. Everything was legalistic, TWI doctrine-oriented. This was not only on the part of the leadership, but the Household members, too. Everyone blabbed about "love", but they said and did the most hurtful things to people, then justified it by quoting TWI leaders or spouting about "the Word". Funny thing was, it always seemed to be more about their "Word", not God's. The Fellowship was like a Fraternity clique. The top priority was maintaining the status quo, no matter what. Real fellowship went out the window. On one hand, I was told "keep in touch with your FC. Let him know what's going on in your life so he can 'help' you." But then he raved and screamed that I was "wasting" his time, and "no one cares what you do, no one wants to listen to YOU." (Actual quotes.) I was expected to sit and keep my mouth shut, though the other members would talk on and on about their jobs, family, problems, etc. I remember thinking "with friends like these, who need enemies???" Heck, I didn't have to drive 45 minutes and give 10 percent of my income to get treated like this! There were plenty of people on the street who'd do it for free, heh! They knew what they were doing, because they tried to explain it by saying "Everything isn't supposed to be pleasant. Everyone can't be good friends. It's all about The Word" [drum roll] . Well, it's one thing to not be the best of friends, it another to be a jerk. The FC reminded me of a quote made by a Nazi leader. It ran something like "Give a man with nothing a little power, and he's yours for life!" Yep, that was my TWI leadership. And the Household members were not far behind! At the very last "fellowship" I attended, the FC was whining with some of the men about not being able to keep people in the Household. "What can we do to keep people?" he lamented. I felt like saying "Not treating them like sh_t might be a good start!"

Thanks for your post, hampshire73! Your account brings up some interesting points! When I joined, TWI was still masquerading as a "Biblical Research and Study group". I got the who spiel about how TWI was "teach" how to "properly research the Bible". The coordinators were adamant that "we aren't going to tell you to believe anything! We will give you the tools to research properly, and then you can decide for yourself." This sounded good. But of course, that's not what happened. They do indeed tell you what to believe, and don't brook any disagreements. From the very term "Biblical Research and Study", at first I assumed it was all about having discussions about Biblical history and research, and I was so enthusiastic that I missed how irritated and annoyed the household coordinator was getting. The Girl and I used to have lengthy discussions about Biblical history and doctrines, and told me greatly enjoyed this, so I assumed this was what I would find in the Household. Boy, was I wrong! I had noticed that she would "dumb down" her discussions when she was in the Fellowship. The Household Coordinator didn't really know much other than what was in the lesson plans, and I think he felt threatened. You're right about treating people like a child. For someone to be in grad school and their mother yells at them when they call someone; and for the Fellowship Coordinator to be screaming 'A DATE? A DATE? YOU WENT ON A DATE!" in front of the whole branch was downright funky, and not in a James Brown way! You'd have thought she was 13. For the whole Household to revolve around monitoring her relationships was bizarre. Your account of how TWI people said your husband wasn't "worthy" of you sparked a few memories. I believe that The Girl's parents desperately wanted to marry her of to some TWI Bigwig. In front of them she would say things like "If I get married, they HAVE to be Way Corps." They were grooming her for something, but the Martindale Scandal, which happened at about the same time, must have thrown a monkey wrench into things. Like you, I finally came to the conclusion that things worked out for the best. Although I knew TWI was BS, if things had worked out between us, I would have gladly stayed in TWI and considered the trade-off worth it. But, who knows what might have happened? Getting enmeshed with her whacked out family and TWI could not have boded well. I believe that they were afraid that if our relationship had lasted, she would have left TWI. They are probably correct, and I suspect that's what happened a year or so later. When everyone was trying to rewrite history to claim that her sole reason for talking to me was to lead me to Jesus, she called me and asked me not to mention things we had done together, because this was her "private life". I then realized that she was playing both sides. Yep, it was time to bail. The one thing that makes me sad is thinking about the two little girls we took to the fair. For one day it like I had daughters of my own, and this was one of the most fun days I ever had. They should be nearly out of their teens now, and I have fervently hoped that they were not manipulated and used like everyone else. I'm glad you were able to exit before your daughters were exposed to more of these people! Everyone likes to say "But there were some great people in TWI!" This is just a bait and switch tactic. Whether some people are great has nothing to do with evaluating the organization as a whole. I"m sure there were some Slaveowners who were good people, too, but that didn't make Slavery acceptable. When the system is rotten, it allows the bad people to flourish. Good people are there in spite of, not because of, the system.

I think that just because people are on this forum doesn't necessarily mean they are "bitter" and are not holding themselves responsible for their life. Maybe this true for some people, but certainly not everyone who is critical of TWI. Just speaking for myself, the reason I can discuss my TWI experiences is precisely because I am "over it". For a long time after I left TWI I was very hurt by the way the girl I dated threw me to the wolves and then let the Household change history without saying a single word. I was angry at how my TWI leaders lied and hurt people, using technicalities of The Word to justify it, and threw genuine love and fellowship right out the window in pursuit of their own agenda. They all deserved a good b**chslapping, and if I had run into them within the first couple of years after I left and they had started spouting all their condenscending nonsense, they just might have gotten it! Now, I no longer have any feelings for the girl, and I am no longer "bitter". I can take an objective look at TWI and the methods they used, and try to understand my experience in this larger context. Hearing others and realizing that it was not just a personal experience but one that has happened to many, many people is an important part of this process. This will help me not to repeat it, with any organization or relationship, and spot when it is happening to others. And there are quite a few groups of people who use the same general tactics.

I have found that is true about yahoo groups in general, too. Since they are smaller, they tend to be dominated by a handful of strong personalities who want to dictate the direction of discussions. Even if they say something improper, few people will speak up. This is too much like TWI for me! Larger forums like this are much more helpful. With the larger numbers, you don't see the "ruling cliques" like on the smaller groups, and there is a wider range of subjects discussed. I like GS because there is always a new perspective to see. It's very true that there are few people you can talk to about TWI who have not witnessed it. A lot of the "get over it" people don't understand this, because they didn't go through it.

I would be interested in knowing what the real memebership figures are, too. I agree that the true figures are probably closely guarded. Here in SoFla back in 2000, there were TWI all over the place. At least one branch per county, and Households were almost literally in every community. I used to see TWI stickers on cars every once in a while. But after I bailed, which was right after the Martindale affair (pun intended!), it seemed like everyone dropped off the face of the earth. I've not seen hide nor hair of anyone in TWI since....not that this is a bad thing:)

I know what you mean. When I left TWI, I knew no one who knew anything about them, so no one could relate to my experiences. It was hard to explain to people who had not experienced it, who tended to just say "oh, it's over so forget it." I found some yahoo groups supposedly for ex-TWI'ers, but had some bad experiences on them. I was recently flamed on one for bringing up a question about TWI, so I promptly decamped. I'd say: stay away from the Yahoo groups. This seems to be a much better place. Even though it has been a long time since I left TWI, I do find it rewarding to hear others who went through the same thing. I was fully aware of what was happening at the time , ibut it was still hard not to doubt whether I was doing the right thing by bailing.