DocHoliday

This is a very interesting thread. I was thinking about this same topic recently. Years ago when I was in TWI, a woman I cared very deeply for (and who introduced me to TWI) was in my Household. She toed the line fanatically, but I knew she had reservations about TWI. Before she broke off contact with me she told me she had argued with her family. To make a long story short, I left TWI. She remained. I understood that her family and her whole life was wrapped up in TWI, so that when a conflict emerged, it was far easier to ditch me than oppose her family, friends, and TWI. About a year later, I heard that she had abruptly left the state. One of her TWI friends approached me (no kidding!) asking if I had spoken with her, which I certainly had not. This told me that she had some sort of issues with TWI, if they suspected that she had contacted me, a total unrepentant apostate. Anyway, despite the hurt that I still felt after the whole episode, I was proud of her for having the courage to leave. Over the years, just randomly looking at social media, I found out she had moved to another part of the country. A few years later I was looking up stuff on TWI, and saw a Corporate listing for TWI in her town. An alarm bell went off in my head. No, it can't be, I thought. But sure enough, the Corporate address for TWI, and her address were the same! Oh, well. Go figure. As the Irish say, agus fagaimid suid mar ata se.....

Exactly right! One of the first terms I ever used for TWI was "A Pyramid Scheme for Jesus". At my first Fellowships, everyone stood up like an AA meeting and recounted fervent story after story about how things were going badly for them until they "gave" to TWI and then their problems were miraculously solved. Usually this revolved around money. I remember one guy declaring that once upon a time he had a choice of either paying the mortgage or Tithing to TWI, and he gave his last dollar to TWI. A few weeks later a check came in the mail which allowed him to pay off his home. I kid you not! Everything was all about how God would reward you if you dedicated your life (and money) to TWI. Not about helping others. Not about giving to others (TWI excepted). Certainly not doing what Jesus and the disciples actually did. This was one of the first fallacies I saw.

Just a random observation: from what I saw, trusting TWI to mediate fairly was like the proverbial fox in the henhouse! The only time I ever saw them try to resolve an issue was when they had stacked the deck in favor of the majority decision. If they couldn't, they just ignored the issue entirely. What was the part about Matthew 18:17 and TWI? I remember my fellowship coordinator explaining it as being that if you pursued an issue with another believer all the way to the top and it was still not resolved, or if they refused to recognize the decision, you could disassociate from the other party as they had shown themselves to act like "a heathen and a publican".

Word Up!

I always thought it was funny how my TWI leaders were so gung ho about my taking the Foundational Class, yet didn't seem to give a whit one way or the other if I left or not afterwards. I thought that Class stats must have been very important to them. And I wonder how long I was still on the rolls after I bailed. Explains a lot!

Yes! I think you are right on the money. First, you are absolutely correct that with TWI or anyone else, you will never get recompense. Trying to get it is a waste of time for the reasons you have stated. That was why I never attempted to contact anyone in TWI again after I bailed, and on the two occasions I came in contact with TWI'ers I walked the other way. If they wanted to contact me, well, that would been their prerogative. But I was just as happy that they did not. I would not have expected any more honesty after the fact than before it. Simply holding people accountable for their actions doesn't mean you haven't "moved on". (I once had a female friend who hired a detective to track down a boyfriend who ditched her because she wanted to "hear it from him" and get "closure". Now that's obsession!) I always have a tendency to dissect things, not out of some kind of obsession, but just as an exercise to learn whatever I can from it. I'm just as likely to have a discussion about Watergate or Gettysburg as something I personally experienced like TWI. Hopefully, discussions can help others avoid the same experiences.

You're quite right. For me The Girl was part of a larger package. For me, she had nothing to do with any societal issues: I simply liked her. For the first two months I knew her she never even mentioned TWI. When she did, I assumed that if she were part of this group, they had to be good people. (My error.) I had hoped the "package" was simply decent people who treated you right, with the honest and genuine spirituality that they claimed. Now, when The Girl wilted under pressure from her parents and TWI leaders, who then blatantly changed history, it was still not fore-ordained that I was leaving. If everything else had been upright and on the level, and I got something out of it, it may have been different. But the whole "package" turned out to the rotten to the core: The Girl, who may or may not have intentionally been "bait"; her hypocritical and domineering parents; the leadership from the FC to the Branch C, who were openly manipulators; to the rest of the members, who goose-stepped along with the band. On top of that, we had the whole wacky system of TWI itself, from the spiritual Pyramid-Scheme-for-Jesus to the "two-by-two" nonsense. The whole situation with The Girl was only the initial symptom of a much larger and more virulent sickness.

"If California falls into the ocean like the mystics and statistics say it will I believe this hotel will be standing until I pay my bill..." - Warren Zevon

You're quite right. That's exactly why I bailed without further ado as soon as I saw the lay of the land. It was very clear that The Girl was firmly in the grip of TWI and TWI leaders were willing to step on anyone to get their way. Staying around would have accomplished nothing but making myself a target for more abuse. After I walked away I never spoke to any of them again. I went on the principle that if something feels wrong, it usually is. As the song says, you have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em. Funny thing was, about two years later, her best friend showed up at a community event where they knew I worked every year. She came up to my booth, and without preamble, asked me if I had spoken with The Girl. My reply was rather, ah, curt. My guess was that The Girl had bailed. I hold no grudges and I hope that she did actually get out of their clutches.

This is truly masterful! As a history buff I have done personal research projects myself, so I know the effort that must have been involved here. Fantastic! Just fantastic! I agree with your conclusion. I remember when I took the Foundational Class in TWI. The pseudoscience and so-called Biblical analysis bored me to tears. The whole premise was that they had to prove that each and every word of the Bible is absolute truth, because "if one word is wrong, you can't believe anything". I disagree with them. Personally, I don't care if there was "another Earth created between the first and second verses" of Genesis. I don't care how many thieves hung beside Jesus. For me, this has little to do with the message.

I think my group could have used a little of something. I encountered the peculiar attitude in TWI that no matter how badly you were treated, it was still a privilege to be allowed to associate with them. Sometimes they would do things that even they seemed to have trouble stomaching and they would reassure each other with phrases like "The Word isn't always nice." and "No one said the Truth is easy". I remember when the Martindale scandal broke, we had an "emergency" meeting. The Fellowship was asked to vote on whether or not we would continue in TWI. But it was sort of like a Communist election: the result was never in doubt and no dissent was encouraged. One of the Big Fish in the small pond looked at everyone challengingly and declared "Well, I'm sticking. Everyone makes mistakes, and you can't judge someone by a mistake." Hmmmm, I thought. You guys sure do apply that principle selectively, don't you? Just before I bailed, I overheard the Fellowship Coordinator wringing his hands and exclaiming "I just don't understand why we can't attract people. What are we doing wrong?" Man, oh, man....

I agree. Some time ago I was on an internet group supposedly friendly to ex-TWI'ers. When I asked a doctrinal question trying to understand something which had occurred to be during my stint in TWI, one of the members (apparently still active in TWI) blasted me for not "moving on" and then asserted he was "tired" of hearing all the "whining" about TWI and people claiming to be "a victim of everything". My own feeling was that if someone is not interested in a topic, they should simply ignore the thread. Putting people down and trying to dictate what others should talk about smacked too much of TWI for me, so I did exactly what I did with TWI and left. To me, discussing things which occurred, trying to understand them, and talking about your own experiences to show others that they were not along in their experiences is not "whining". There is indeed such a thing as a victim mentality, but simply relating what actually happened or trying to gain insight into what happened is not it. This is not merely useful for gaining insight into TWI. There are many organizations and people who employ the same sort of psychological tactics to get what they want. And just because someone is interested in discussing something doesn't mean they haven't "moved on". If you can identify the tactics in one case, you can be aware of them in all. That's the value of open discussion.

I'm not a "hardcore" vegetarian in that if I should happen to eat something with a mean by-product in it and find out later, I just avoid it in the future. If there is literally nothing else to eat, or if I make a mistake, no big deal. I was at a cookout once where I had brought Boca burgers, but the host got it mixed up and served me a hamburger by mistake. They looked about the same off the grill with everything on them. She was horrified. It was sort of funny because she looked like she expected me to turn into the Hulk for something. But I just laughed and told her not to sweat it. Then I asked the person who got the veggie burger how it tasted: I used it as an promotional tool, so to speak. But I know some people who would literally die rather than eat meat.

I can sympathize! I have been everything from Episcopalian to Mormon and found much the same. Back in the late '80s, I even ran into some group that was much like TWI in some respects. Going door to door, they claimed to be a "Bible Study" group, and a bunch of cute college girls were bopping around with them. At the first meeting, it was a friendly little event where we just read and discussed the designated chapter. One of the girls was sort of flirty and shared her Bible with me. By the third meeting, all the girls had vanished. There were only three guys who sat down with some kind of guidebook and told me firmly what the "correct" interpretation of the Bible verses was. When I mentioned some book I was reading on Biblical scholarship, they snapped "This (the New Testament) is all you need. God doesn't want you to read anything else. Everything you need is. Right. Here." Needless to say, that was my last meeting. Come to think of it, I had a similar experience in TWI. At one of my first fellowships, the "lesson" was something to do with Jerusalem. Afterwards, while everyone was socializing I mentioned something I had read about Biblical archaeology and Jerusalem. The Fellowship looked at me like I was speaking Swahili. Later, the Fellowship Coordinator ranted that I "wasted everyone's time" and "no one understands anything you say". With 'friends' like these, who needed enemies? At the Foundational class, I bought a couple of VPW's books and the Branch Coordinator and his wife seemed shocked. I think this was one of the things that convinced them that I was "hooked". But I'm a bibliophile and I have quite a few books just for their weirdness factor. And there was plenty of weirdness to go around there!

I'm a history buff and an historical reenactor. When I joined, I had just finished several books about the Earps, and I love Val Kilmer's portrayal of Holliday in Tombstone. I spelled mine with one "L" just to be different.