satori001

HCW, Jim says I "ran you off."

Chas, I will answer you by private topic. Anybody else with pressing issues like this one, you're welcome to keep them off this thread, and bring them to me directly.

Was there any news coverage of the accident in the Roswell paper (Roswell Daily Record)? Has anyone involved with the accident (other than TWI "leadership") ever seen the police report? This isn't asked for argument's sake, but to complete the record as much as possible, in accordance with the thread's title.

After all the fun, I'm getting back to "what happened?" Here's a re-cap of one element which everyone seems to agree was a major contributing factor. What's the real story of the trailer? Who on the staff built it? Was it pretty sturdy? Was it properly balanced? Was it aerodynamically suitable for "highway speeds?" Where did their plans come from? Were any safety specifications followed? Had it ever been inspected or approved for its intended use? Was it "legal?" Why didn't TWI go out and buy one that was manufactured to the latest safety specifications? (Howard Allen was in charge, right? How much money did his decision to build a make-shift trailer, if it was his, save the ministry? We don't know how much it may have cost LEAD 104, in medical bills. There's no dollar value on the harm they suffered.) Were there photos taken of the trailer? How about after the accident, for investigation or insurance purposes? ------------ The following remarks are copied from posts related to the trailer: February 02, 2005 3:46 HCW We were pulling a trailer that the LEAD staff had built out of wood framing and aluminum siding. It was about the size of a small U-Haul and had all of the luggage, back-packs & sack lunches for the 30 of us in LEAD 104. - Kevin started to take corrective action. (He pulled the truck to the right until all the wheels on the right side of the truck were in the gravel shoulder, including the trailer. We were bouncing but not ot badly.) Then we started to lose it. When he turned to the left to get the truck back all the way on the road the truck bounced violently. It seemed like when the trailer came back up onto the road it bounced up and to the left pulling the rear of the truck fishtailing it to the left with it. Kevin did a counter-steer to the left to correct the skid without hitting the brakes. We were still going about 50mph at this point. - The trailer flipped up like a slingshot. Up over and foreward. Some people were catapaulted out of the truck, those that weren't scrunched. The trailer missed EVERYONE and hit the back of the cab, exploding on impact. - February 02, 2005 alfakat Everything run on a frickin shoe-string... home-made trailer, my a$$...surprised the truck wasn't home-made, too. Too cheap and tight-a$$ed to do things right, like the world.... -- February 02, 2005 shazdancer Legal or illegal, I think I knew back in the early 80's that riding in the back of a pickup is dangerous. And to throw 15 people back there, at 50 m.p.h., and add a homemade trailer... -- Feb 3 HCW, quoting LCM "There were two sudden, simultaneously powerful gusts of wind. One from the left then another from the right that picked up the trailer and swung it around one way then immediately back the other way. The trailer pulled the truck to one side. When the driver tried to correct the skid, he overcorrected and the truck went off the road and crashed into a ravine...." Then he [Martindale] said that the people in the traing truck had told they saw the trailer bouncing and whipping the truck around like a rag doll. -- Feb 4 jackmm Just doing a little thinking/figuring here. They were riding in a Ford pickup truck, correct? So, let’s say it was an F250 ¾ ton truck. My figuring says that means it can carry 1500lbs of payload. That includes everything and everyone in the cab and the bed and the tongue weight of the trailer. I’m averaging a weight of 150lbs multiplied by 16 people equals 2400lbs. Now add in some tongue weight of the trailer and the truck was very much overloaded. It was almost certainly loaded with an aft heavy center of gravity and the tongue weight adding to it. That means a very light front end and very easy to over steer. Was the trailer hitch mounted to the bumper or the frame of the truck? Did the weight of the trailer exceed the maximum towing capacity of the truck/bumper/frame? Yeah, everything’s gotta be perfect for the head grifter and cohorts. But the peons at the bottom of the food chain gotta use magic/believe god (don’t remember who said that) to cover for .... they shouldn’t have to even think about. And when their magic/believing god doesn’t work they get raked over the coals. -- Feb 6 Jim trailers are notoriously unstable in gusty conditions, the vehicle was overloaded, and by the time Kevin realized the situation was out of control, it was too late to do anything about it. The only thing else I would add is that the vehicle was totally inappropriate for the job. A couple of months ago my daughter came into my office, shaking and her face pale. She was on the freeway, following a pickup with a trailer. A gust of wind hit, the pickup and trailer fishtailed and the trailer flipped on it's side right in front of her. It was her first really close call as a driver. -- Feb 6 dmiller It was May of 1985 I went on LEAD, and it was one of those "traveling sessions" they held. The one I went to was in the Black Hills of South Dakota. We all met at the local mall, parked vehicles there for the week, and transfered all our camping stuff into the LEAD vehicle. I don't remember what kind of truck they had, but it was a big one pulling one of those sturdy Wells Cargo trailers behind it. They piled as many of us as they could in the back of their truck (there were about 25 to 30 of us on this session), and conscripted two other people (who had a full-sized truck, and a station wagon) to transport the rest of us to the starting point. Since all our gear was in the Wells Cargo trailer, they deemed two extra vehicles *enough* to get us all to the site. (my note: I included this post to point out that somebody at TWI had sprung for a "store-bought" trailer by 1985. Coincidence?) -- Feb 7 HCW AS he was grasping the paper with BOTH hands firmly on the steering wheel, eyes on the road. WE both went like, whoa! when the wind caused the truck to shudder and the trailer to hop...to the left so that the truck moved to the right. The truck was heading to a perpendicular position with the front pointing to the the right and the back was heading towards the left. Had Kevin not had enough driving skill and poise and arm strength to correct a 50mph skid with at least a ton of people in the bed, while pulling a trailer loaded with about 8 or 900lbs... -- Feb 7 HCW The wind was a constant. The trailer, its weight and the towing capacity of the truck - all constants. Our speed was the variable that put us at the location of the ditch. -- Feb 7 HCW I'm honestly not sure that not doing the paper thing, in and of itself, would have prevented the crash. The weight of our load, the trailer itself, I think was more of a factor. The there was the wind. There are invisible wind "lanes" where it normally blows through where you can be driving along in a gentle breeze then WHAM, you're in it.

Get your attaboys while they're hot, Garth.

Garth, it's spelled malevolence, and there is no malevolence in that post. You're like oldiesman with a different personality. It just goes right by you.

HCW, Having a conversation with you is like trying to drive an overloaded pickup full of people, and towing a trailer, at highway speeds in with unpredictable crosswinds. I'm thinking I should pull over and let you walk the rest of the way. Given the inherent instability of the enterprise, it might be safer for all concerned.

Catcup, you thrive on this stuff. I expect a nice card for Christmas.There was no lie because I thought it was the truth. I confess, I just didn't pay close enough attention to you to get the facts right. You are in equal parts boring and annoying, so that's my excuse. I wrote from memory, and the facts were wrong because there was no way to check them at the time - it's just what I'd come to think. Maybe it was all those times you mentioned being on staff - I began to think you were there when VPW showed up. Meanwhile, go to town. The "lies" will get you plenty of sympathy. In my opinion, you used that supposed stalking incident, and therefore used your offspring, for your own gratification. Can't prove it 'cuz you'd never admit it, but it just rings true. You seem to love to be at the center of a fuss. It might seem that I do too, but I don't, believe it or not.

Garth, you are Garth, and there is no cure.

Tom, maybe we need to work the Aramaic.

excathedra, thanks for the vote. Don't go near the water.

Chuck Farley, Maybe another time. Or ask Linda Z. She's Corps. She figured it out (partly).

Pile on socks. Ya don't wanna feel left out.And I'm the weenie? (Is yours the German spelling?)

Somebody's messin' with my posts. What happened to the one to socks? Now there are duplicates to Krys. That was weird.

Cynic, I wouldn't argue. Speaking of cards, a few here are stacking the deck, and maybe that's what one must do if the deck one is dealt is less than full.

krys, You quack me up.

Thank you Jennifer. I consider myself duly warned. I will have only myself to blame.

Well, Catcup. You weren't exactly forced to respond. Seemed to me you were enjoying the attention, and it didn't seem appropriate. For that reason, in part, I didn't find you credible.

I think he's saying just the opposite.

No, you brought it up, actually, at Greasespot. You didn't really need to say a word.

Okay, well I read about it here. I forget who filled in the details for us. Why don't you back off, there Catcup. I woudn't have even noticed you if you didn't have to weigh earlier in with your little cracks. As for your stalker melodrama, I had stopped posting on it, and there you are again. And then you tell me to "BACK OFF." Why don't you just ignore my posts, and I will go back to ignoring yours. Speaking of melodrama... "Tear off our socks --- and our feet will mightily offend you." Dr. Scholls

Okay, I'm sorry I thought you watched Arthur.

Very hard work. I wish you the best of success in fulfilling your dreams, regardless of any petty disagreement I may have with "Catcup."

You are warning me?? Golly, whose mom posted the story on the internet? It's a reasonable question, since the only two directly involved are here. That is, except for he-who-must-not-be-named.

Childish? Arthur is a one of the great modern satires of the American family. I do know how it is to be unappreciated.