satori001

Alright Paw. First, you maintain GS, and it takes considerable effort. You have the right and responsibility to make those decisions. In addition, ex must have been aware there would be a response. The third and fourth points are of little consequence. Anyone who knows and loves ex has been told to "f" themselves on occasion. And insulting Greasespot? Or you? C'mon. You can choose to be offended I guess, but here's where you look beyond the words to the pain that provokes them. You have a well-earned reputation for patience and understanding. What situation might deserve forbearance more than the one at hand? As for the first two points, they are another matter. I understand the phone number was posted with permission, but its owner may not really grasp what the consequences of publishing it might be. Revealing someone's identity is entirely inappropriate. That said, extenuating circumstances may exist. That is between you and excathedra. Greasespot respects privacy, and requires respect for privacy from its participants. That should never be in doubt.

excathedra, at a time when you most need to share your feelings of understandable confusion and grief and anger, helping you to release your pain, with the give and take of others who care about you, you've been cut off. The reality that Greasespot has been so important to so many among us who needed a place to "let it all out," not all of it very pretty, makes your situation painfully ironic. I'm really sorry. -- dmiller, you must be in shock. At least you can talk about it if you need to. Feel free. Up to a point, I guess.

We got a certificate for taking the Advanced Class. Anybody want to comment on the value of that certificate?

Those of you who may perceive some sarcasm are correct. Anybody who denies there is an implied claim here isn't paying attention. In making this OBVIOUS claim, reikilady is NOT speaking to skeptics, as she admitted earlier. Courting skeptics would be a waste of time, and PT Barnum could explain why.This sort of claim preys upon desperate people looking for a miracle. They are the same sort who line up at the lottery machine every week. The odds of winning a lottery are less than being struck by lightning twice while crossing the street to the convenience store. And yet, the tickets sell by the hundreds of millions. Desperation negates common sense. And this is why people buy reiki. "Touch" can be helpful or harmful, depending. Even Wierwille's "touch" when perceived as compassionate and "spiritual" (reportedly) made many people feel better. When his touch was one of lust and lechery, the effect was quite different, and the harm is still felt today, long after his death. Proper massage IS therapeutic. Reiki (like chiropractic) seems to borrow some massage techniques, and to that extent offers "therapy," but it adds the elements of wizardry, mysticism and spiritual theatrics. Like many new age industries, it cozies up to medicine seeking just enough validation to separate the sheep from skeptical shepherds (friends, family) warning them against phonies. I wouldn't doubt for a moment that massage contributed to this cancer survivor's chances. If calling it "reiki" gave him the confidence to try it, then its contribution was at best a benevolent deception.Where things like this go wrong is when the money begins changing hands. One reiki site I found is very eager to see reiki begin to cash in on the 14 billion people spend out of their own pockets every year on various therapies. Whether or not reikilady sincerely believes in her techniques doesn't make the "reiki" part real. It doesn't protect the public from the many opportunists who will be drawn to this pseudo-scientific spinoff of hinduism. I do think it's a cult, by ideology if not by affiliation.

So reikilady reiki'd some guy with cancer, and he survived. Anyone with such an impressive resume should be working the hospital circuit, emptying the terminal cancer wards. If not, it's moral dereliction on the order of depraved indifference and gross negligence. Good god almighty, SAVE those people! Ohhhh, it doesn't work quite like that? It's the magic that always works sometimes. There's the problem with these so-called "success stories." They can't be duplicated. Oakspear is a sharp guy. He has to confess that it resembles snake oil in most respects. Might be less than diplomatic to say so, of course.

Nobody will fault you for that, however there are a lot of people who convinced themselves of the "results" in their lives, only to realize they'd been overly generous in their assessment, not wanting to let God, or "the Teacher," down. Eventually they realized those results were less than real. Some of us are here at Greasespot.2life says the placebo effect is real. It is. If that's what it is, shop around for the cheapest one that will work for you, if that's all it is.

Yellow pages, under "Voodoo."

Come back when you can think of a better example, okay?

Of course I'm aware of that satori, I just wanted to make a point that not everyone in a field is as they should be. I think most are and the few who are not mess it up for the others, once they leave a bad taste. But the cable company provides a legitimate service. They don't come into your home and try to convince you there's something on your screen.This is a cult board. Reiki has cult-like tendencies, and we're only talking about it because someone intruded into excathedra's father's hospital room to sell some reiki, and the consequences were unfortunate. Shaming is a big part of cult intimidation, by the way. TWI is a virtual lifestyle built around the cycle of shaming and absolution. By the way, no matter how bad the cable guy, the signal still comes through the cable. No matter how good the reiki practitioner, it's hard to tell exactly what is being practiced.

The cable company does not practice "magic," which is what Reiki seems to be. New age theatrics or fundamentalist faith healing, it's the same thing. You pay for the show, which means the practitioners put on a show to get paid. The very first thing to look at when exposing a fraud is the evidence they provide. If it's mostly anecdotal - meaning, examples of people who were "helped," rather than scientific studies published in reputable (disinterested, 3rd party, neutral) journals, it's most likely BS. The use of anecdotal evidence is the oldest trick in the book. Wierwille used it constantly, by the way. The law of averages will always give you a few lucky examples, unless you're passing cyanide off as youth elixir. Even then, somebody's gonna survive and say it was the best thing they ever did. Ring any bells?Now this is not to say every "practitioner" is purposely defrauding their subjects. Just as we believed, with considerable zeal, that our Advanced Class techniques were tried and true, reiki lady and 2life may be earnestly convinced the reiki works. But wishing doesn't make it so. Any rational person, taking a cold look, has to arrive at the same conclusion - if any of these things really "worked," they wouldn't be fringe movements. They would quickly become the accepted form of treatment. You can't argue with real reliable results. A "warm feeling?" I can think of a lot of ways to get a warm feeling, not all of them so healthy.

Since this came up on another thread, maybe it's worth another look. Do some "practitioners" of reiki work the hospital circuit? Are they trained to shame patients when they request pain medication? If there is anything legitimate about reiki (I share George & Sudo's skepticism), I'd think true practitioners would be deeply offended by the sort of quackery excathedra's family experienced at the hands of a so-called practitioner. I was in a hospital recently. The patient was in extraordinary discomfort, and morphine was provided. I'm fairly certain it was more effective than reiki. His pain was not imaginary, therefore most likely NOT responsive to an imaginary therapy. No question, some things do respond to touch and suggestion, and people are helped by the encouragement implicit in another's positive intentions. It's a version of the placebo effect. Placebos don't always work. If they did, they wouldn't be placebos, would they?

I'm told she's unable to respond.

I wonder if this "only game in town" perceived monopoly contributed, just slightly, to the profound arrogance of Wierwille and his brood of moglings? "I gotcha eternal life and you'd begrudge me a little sanctified and justified T&A?"

Okay... so... What statements does anyone recall where Way bigshots have invoked the devil's name to intimidate you or others? Remember, they'll remind you that you're more than a conqueror, but one wrong step, you little nippers, and you're "greasespots." Isn't that how they framed it? They were loathe to "glorify" the devil, but quick to name-drop - a distinction without a difference if you ask me. (Ask me, go ahead.)

If it sounded wrong, it's because The Way taught it to mean, "If you rebel against us, then you may as well be practicing witchcraft." 1 Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. So even if we were stubborn, we were pretty much in the "greasespot by midnight" category, courtesy of the Adversary, as Martindale would teach it. If we rejected The Way, we rejected the LORD too. It was a convenient little doctrine for the spandex spitfire, wasn't it? This link has an interesting study on the verse. I'm not a "researcher" any more, but some of you may enjoy it. He's essentially saying if you're "operating" believing, etc, then you are practicing witchcraft. Agree, disagree, have fun. http://www.vandruff.com/witchcraft.html

Rest in peace.

Neither relevant nor funny. Better stick to snow cones. Or do they stick to you?

I remember being "taught" that the more "Word" you learned, the more you were therefore responsible for, and the more consequences you would reap if you "copped-out." In other words, the "bigger" you were ("spiritually"), the harder you'd fall. According to their own calculations, Martindale should have imploded and burst into flames when he "copped out" and fell to the earth where we mortals walk. By the way, is Martindale still considered faithful in his compromised situation, or is he now a certifiably tripped-out believer? He's marked and avoided, for all intents and purposes. Persona non grata. Right? Any Loy sightings at Wayworld? He'd probably scurry in under cover of night, in a vehicle with tinted windows, possibly disguised, possibly as a large woman, or a small bigfoot. He brought shame upon the ministry, as his predecessor Vic Wierwille should have also done, had he been exposed in time, and properly sued. Does that connote some degree of spiritual cohabitation? I would think TWI would redound with a resounding affirmative. If so, what of the top dog sleazoids at Wayworld who persecute Loy's victims rather than making amends. I'd think we'd have heard, if they were doing the right thing. Don't you? You know who you are. Just thinking out loud.

The longer you were in, the more you were taught to equate dissent with the devil.

Do you mean Satan, or his bunk-mate?

Oakspear, please turn around slowly and step away from the Stratocaster.

I remember the "flip out" phrase. It had more to do with their state of mind than the state of their commitment to The Way. The sub-text was, "maybe we're better off without them."A cop out was an "error of heart." (Remember that?) To flip out was an "error of judgement." Just my recollection, anyway. What a rich vocabulary The Way gave us. I think you could cop out, and then flip out because you'd copped out. But it was less likely you could flip out first, and then cop out. This is because copping out required a conscious choice, I think, and if you were already "flipped out," your brain wasn't competent to cop out. You were in the "spiritual ozone." (We were nothing if not glib about those spiritual things, of which we knew next to nothing, and presumed we knew next to everything.) Either way the "Adversary" was involved. How did the Adversary deal with cop-outs as opposed to flip-outs? Anybody know?

mstar, that was well put.

Excellent Thelema & Belle. I believe in the theory that when a liar points a finger, then three others are pointing back at himself. People like Wierwille & Martindale & Rivenbark (and their stooges, like John Linder) are not only liars but malicious deceivers. If such a person "has no truth," then he must get the ideas about "demonic activity" from somewhere. I believe he simply looks within. Now, I don't really know if devil spirits exist as we've been led to imagine or believe in them. But the nature of any spirit "identified" or "discerned" by one of these phonies is (conveniently) descriptive of the accuser's own character. Therefore, that which they have so often accused others is the best reflection of their worm-eaten hearts. I'm quite serious when I say that Linder, and the rest, sleep with Satan. But we acknowledge it is symbolic of a religious corruption as old as humanity which we may only ever begin to understand. It goes far beyond TWI of course. As Dan & Groucho have pointed out, these people are pathetic and insignificant in the greater scheme of things, but we have our memories, and they need to be placed in the proper context if we are to ever "move on." There are scriptural references for this stuff. I'll leave them to you to find, if you need them.

Interesting stuff, all of it. I'm looking for direct references to the Adversary though. I think we all heard the Adversary mentioned once or twice while in TWI. Once or twice a minute, some days. So, what specific comments, explicit or implicit, were made to us regarding a "cop out" as fodder for "the Adversary?" That includes devil spirits, spiritual oppression, possession, repossession, influence, etc. That's the question. I began to look through some of our documents but they aren't searchable and I didn't have the time to read or re-read them all.