sky watcher

I shared a while back about a night that I spent with vp where for some reason I escaped the honor of being molested by the "mog". That night he gave me a broach that he had brought back from the holy land. It was a mother of pearl star of David surrounded by filagree. I thought at the time that he probably gave them out to people to "bless them". It sounds like it could be part of his modus operandi YUCK!

I remember years ago vp had a personal secretary who I think was one of the old timers. Her name was Donna Randall and she was really sweet. She taught a class about using research materials (one of the few classes that I actually found useful). She suddenly resigned with no warning or anouncement or anything. She was just there one day and then she was gone. vp gave no explanation, just said she quit. I thought even back then that she saw or heard something that she knew was wrong and left. I think she was married too. I don't remember what her husband did but I think it had to do with farming.

IMO, the term "reverand" means one who is revered. There is only one man who deserves reverance and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. vs 23 - If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; vs 24 - Then shall ye bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. vs 25 - But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: vs26 - But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour and slayeth him, even so is this matter. I don't see where it says that kings are exempt from this. Does someone have a translation that says that? If so, was David exempt from all the laws that governed Israel? Out of the thousands of laws that applied to Israel, did he have to obey none of them? If so, which ones did he have to obey and which ones could he ignore? Where can I find the list? What chapter and verse? I always hated it when vp taught that "David's sin wasn't that he slept with Bethsheba, his sin was that he had Uriah killed." Sorry, but that's NOT what the Word says. She should have been stoned, (unless she cried out and no one heard her [or acted as if they hadn't]) and David should have been killed too, according to what I understand it says in the Law. I know that he repented (after Nathan's visit) and that God forgave him, but that was by God's mercy and grace. He deserved to die according to the Law of Moses. I understand that he was the king and that people looked the other way for him. Just like they did in twi. But David, when confronted, repented and admitted his guilt. Also, look at the story Nathan told David. The one precious little lamb referred to Bethsheba! She was not some tool to be used and then discarded. Nathan makes that very clear. It might have been said of David that all the women in the kingdom belonged to him, but it wasn't God who said it. Deuteronomy 22:22 - If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. vs 23 - If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; vs 24 - Then shall ye bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. vs 25 - But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: vs26 - But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour and slayeth him, even so is this matter. I don't see where it says that kings are exempt from this. Does someone have a translation that says that? If so, was David exempt from all the laws that governed Israel? Out of the thousands of laws that applied to Israel, did he have to obey none of them? If so, which ones did he have to obey and which ones could he ignore? Where can I find the list? What chapter and verse? I always hated it when vp taught that "David's sin wasn't that he slept with Bethsheba, his sin was that he had Uriah killed." Sorry, but that's NOT what the Word says. She should have been stoned, (unless she cried out and no one heard her [or acted as if they hadn't]) and David should have been killed too, according to what I understand it says in the Law. I know that he repented (after Nathan's visit) and that God forgave him, but that was by God's mercy and grace. He deserved to die according to the Law of Moses. I understand that he was the king and that people looked the other way for him. Just like they did in twi. But David, when confronted, repented and admitted his guilt. Also, look at the story Nathan told David. The one precious little lamb referred to Bethsheba! She was not some tool to be used and then discarded. Nathan makes that very clear. It might have been said of David that all the women in the kingdom belonged to him, but it wasn't God who said it.

As bad as twi was, I believe that God was with me and that He spoke to me and protected me as much as He could. I'm a PK and I don't ever remember a time in my life that I didn't blieve that Jesus was the son of God and that he had died for me and that God raised him from the dead. All of my friends and family that were in twi got out and none of us ever just stopped believing. We all sought God with all of our hearts and God honored that, I believe. And the most wonderful part of life after twi is that now I can have a relationship with Christ Jesus my Lord, as I once did. I believe that was the most vile part of what twi taught...that Jesus was just a man and you didn't really have anything to do with him, he was just sittin' around waiting for God to say, "okay, it's time. Go down there and gather them up"... What an insidious lie!

Jen-o, It's great to see posts about our wonderful Lord! TWI had to discourage people from knowing him because if they did we woulnd't have needed a Dr. Wierwille or an LCM. Knowing Jesus as the head of the body would have taken away all control. Thanks for you posts.

Oldies, I understand where you're coming from and even agree with you up to a point. My post wasn't meant to imply that what vp did with me was so terrible. It made me wonder about his motivations and confused me over the years, but to compare it to what happened to so many others...well, it just doesn't compare. I don't think his actions that night were appropriate, but when everything started to come out about some of the things he'd done I realized that ...I had escaped. But on some level, I knew that I had escaped something even way back then when it was happening. There's no doubt I should have questioned the incident and examined it more closely, but the truth is ...HE WAS DR WIERWILLE. I trusted him. Shouln't have, but did just like thousands of others. I don't blame twi for anything having to do with my actions or reactions for all the years I was in twi. At the time I left I had been in for exactly half of my life. I could have left at any time. It would have meant leaving all my friends and even family, but I could have left. I could have "searched the scriptures daily whether these things were so", and at first I did, but as the years passed it was impossible to keep up with everything. Believe it or not, I have no regrets as to the things I experienced while I was in twi. Everything that happened to me, even the bad stuff, helped shape me into the person that I am today. But I got out of twi (in 1986) virtually unscathed. Many did not. People's lives were turned upside down, people were betrayed, so many women psychologically and sexually abused. How long do we give a person to "get over" that? Just how long does it take to heal? I was molested when I was 10 years old by a man who lived in the town where I grew up. It happened only once and lasted for maybe 20 minutes. It affected everything I thought or believed about myself for the rest of my life. I never even told anyone about it until I was almost 30. How can 20 minutes effect the rest of a person's life. Was it my "victim mentality" that did it? No, it was human nature. That is, for some reason, the way the human mind works. The problem with getting healed from something like this is that it's still in your mind. If you could somehow just remove it, you probably could get over it. My molester was a stranger. What if it had been the man I trusted to teach me the Bible. What if it had been the man who was supposedly the example of what a Christian was, a man I had to face every day as he presented a certain face to the world, and another to me when we were alone? I have received a lot of healing from what happened to me as a child. I have a loving understanding husband and a relationship with the Healer, Jesus Christ (something I was not allowed to have in the way). But it's still there. It will always be there. I don't talk about it, or complain about it, or dwell on it. I believe I have "moved on" as they say, but it's still there. And always will be. The ONLY regrets that I have about twi are the times that I hurt other people by upholding way policy. As a coordinator, you had to hold to a certain standard and do the things that were expected of you, and I hurt people at times by doing it. And THAT is what I regret.

Okay, here goes, I have been coming to this site off and on for almost 8 years. I've never joined or posted anything. The last post was the 25th of April, so maybe everyone is done with this thread. But I just have to do this. I just have to get it off my chest. When I was 20 years old, this would be around 1972, Dr Wierwille came to our city. I lived with the branch leaders. I rented their basement. As I recall we rented a meeting room someplace and afterward Dr W met with some of the people at our house. We were in the basement where I lived and he ordered pizza and we talked and stuff. Then, after everyone went home, we (the branch leaders, Dr W and myself) ended up in the kitchen talking. Dr was drinking drambouie (sorry, I don't know how you spell it) and he asked me how old I was. I told him and he said, "well, you're old enough to drink some of this" and he got up and poured me some. We all talked and sat for a while longer, and then the branch leaders excused themselves and went to bed. Dr W then asked me if I would give him a back rub and I said,"sure". He told me to wait til he got into his pajamas (he was given the master bedroom and the branch leaders were sleeping in the bedroom of one of their kids). When he was finished putting on his pajamas he called me in and he laid down on the bed and I began to rub his back. He would tell me what part to rub and then he asked me to rub his "buttocks" as he put it. I did and he asked me if it made me feel uncomfortable to do that. I lied and said no. But even though it did make me feel uncomfortable, I didn't really think too much about it, because after all, this was the man of God of the world and I must have just been being uptight. Finally he asked me to stop and lie down next to him. I did. He put his arm around me and he just began to talk about different stuff. I really have no idea what we talked about. I was very nervous and thought this was very weird, but I was trying to act like it was nothing and that I was so spiritual, and I could handle it, and all the garbage that goes through one's mind, when, deep in your spirit you KNOW God is telling you to get out of there but you don't, because, what if he really IS the man of God of the world, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't take very long in the Way to become numb to common sense. Anyway, the really weird thing is, after a while, he just told me to go and he would see me in the morning. Years ago, I was reading a post on here of what happened to one girl (I think her name was Kathy) and as she told the story of what happened to her my blood just ran cold. I KNEW she was telling the truth and I KNEW that I had been spared when I came so close to it happening to me. My God, I don't know what turn my life would have taken had he not decided... what, to let me go...he was too tired... he thought I couldn't handle it...WHO KNOWS. I think of my sisters who did NOT escape it and ... my God, I can't imagine what that must have been like for them. To be betrayed in such a way by a man who was so revered and looked up to... and to whom would you go with this, whom would you tell? I don't know if any did tell, but I know exactly what happened if they did. They were kicked out because they were "possessed" or "out in left field" and it was covered up so easily and neatly so that no one ever knew or suspected. I graduated from the corps, went wow, worked on staff at HQ, and I NEVER heard or saw ANYTHING to indicate that this was happening, even though it almost happened to me. Talk about sticking your head in the sand! Tex, you and I were in the same corps. I didn't know you well at all, but to think now of what you were going through at the time because of this lunatic... My God! I can't even imagine what it must have been like for you and for so many others because my mind won't let me go there. God bless you all. You are amazing, strong and beautiful souls who withstood this alone and in silence for so long. God bless you all. I hope you are all able to get some true healing in your life. He took so much from you and I am so sorry.