spectrum49

In mentioning the Listening With a Purpose Questions from PFAL, Waysider just reminded me of an incident you all might find interesting. Please excuse me if I am deviating from the TOPIC somewhat with my ancedote - I just want you all to be amused... I was in a class as a repeat grad once and question #5 from Session 1 was asked by the class leader: “What is the difference between apistia and apeitheia?” I was frantically waving my hand and was called upon! I promptly (and very boldly) stated, “I don’t know – and I don’t care!” Right away many were chuckling and within a few moments the laughter grew to include the whole class as they were catching on to my “little quip” – that is, except for the leader! You should have seen the GLARE he had been giving me as if to say, “How dare you to disrupt MY class!” But very soon, he understood it as well and joined in the merriment. Ironically though, after all the years since then my answer still remains the same: How does TWI differentiate between apistia and apeitheia? "I DON’T KNOW - AND I DON’T CARE!" SPEC :)

The following are two excerpts from a handout by TWI, seen in a recent post by Charlene: In one paragraph: Part of research is not to find something new in the Word, In the very next paragraph: The ministry has the freedom to change and grow when something new is discovered in the Bible About this blatant contradiction: SPOT ON, Tzaia! I once looked up some facts on the sale of many of TWI’s holdings as they were liquidating a bit for needed ready capital. I wasn’t very surprised when I noticed that among the first things to go were The Way College of Biblical Research (Emporia, KS) along with its sister facility, The Way College of Biblical Research (Indiana campus). They always did seem to put a low priority on research! And even long before all that, the old "BRC" (Biblical Research Center) had to give way to The VPW Word Over the World Victor Paul Wierwille Prevailing Word Auditorium just down the road with its million-dollar cameras, etc. Research at TWI? Bah, humbug! SPEC :)

Just to clear this up a bit, folks... By posting the above quote (by Keith Ward), I was NOT indicating I agreed with him, although it may have been assumed as such. My purpose was merely to generate more feedback ("Any thoughts on this?"), which is what is happening as this topic of discussion continues. The larger context of this dialogue concerns those who are "questioning the value of Biblical research done by The Way International" (as first indicated by Penworks), and precisely why they do so. SPEC

And, in your opinion Waysider, what is this "reality"? (that is, how do you believe the Bible came to exist?) I truly meant no harm. SPEC

The following may be of interest concerning “inerrancy of the Bible”, found at Wikipedia.com: The Reverend Professor (John Stephen) Keith Ward (born 22 August 1938) is a British cleric, philosopher, theologian, and scholar. He is a Fellow of the British Academy and (since 1972) an ordained priest in the Church of England. He was a Canon of Christ Church, Oxford until 2003. Comparative theology and the interplay between science and faith and are two of his main topics of interest. He said: There may be discrepancies and errors in the sacred writings, but those truths that God wished to see included in the Scripture, and which are important to our salvation, are placed there without error... the Bible is not inerrant in detail, but God has ensured that no substantial errors, which mislead us about the nature of salvation, are to be found in Scripture. Any thoughts on this? SPEC

I suppose that whatever results or conclusions are drawn in the end should at least make sense with what we understand today from science, physics, nature, geology, and other related things about our world. It seems to all be pointing "somewhere"! I believe all "religions" have discovered some "pieces of the puzzle", so to speak. They all have some merit or nobody would adhere to any of it. And scientists have also found some pieces as well. Now...just how do you get them all together on some common ground? What can be done to "put the whole story together"? I suppose man has been attempting to do that all along, but pride has somehow gotten in the way, and there remain few who can actually listen to all sides and glean from it. Just a thought...does this relate, or am I getting off on some tangent? If I am, please correct me. Thanks! SPEC :)

How about this movie T-Bone?… Way International Treasure: Book of Secrets Everything that went on behind the scenes at TWI was documented in a secret journal known only by the Presidents. (VPW, LCM, & RFR) It was filed away where only THEY KNEW…But the book has been discovered! View for yourself the horrid details of rampant sex orgies by the Trustees, misappropriation of ABS for cases of Drambuie for the Master. Feast your eyes on what really happened there - the lies, the deceipt, the plagerism – and a whole lot more... A MUST SEE !! Siskel & Ebert: "Two thumbs up their a**!" This motion picture is not worth rating... SPEC :)

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Oh, God! My side hurts! What a fun thread! Ouch! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! Remember when VP said, "I know what you're thinking!" ? Does that mean he somehow knows the thoughts of everyone who is watching PFAL on Tape, Video, or Film? -- new students and grads alike -- all over the world, every time that class is run, and even now -- from the grave? I believe it was T-Bone who quipped on a thread somewhere that TWI is a "target-rich environment". HOW TRUE! HOW VERY TRUE! SPEC

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Hey Oak…you just reminded me of something. I’m sure you all remember what the Vicster taught on “no private interpretation” from 2Pe 1:20… He translated the word interpretation as letting loose, as in “letting a dog loose upon the game”. Then he goes off on a wild tangent, probably reminiscing of his own hunting experiences. I still remember the artwork (if you want to call it that) of his spotted retriever and the ducks flying all over the place. What a horrid translation of the Greek word epilusis (from luo). This “letting loose” is more like disassembling, or taking apart for examination, kind of like taking a carburetor apart to understand what makes it work. And the MOG sure didn't want ANY OF US to be examining the scriptures for ourselves -- that was HIS JOB! Now of course, with his "DEAF – a – NICHE – un" in place, that paved the way for more CONTROL over people by limiting what they could SPEAK. This “private letting loose” grew way out of proportion: "Unless you speak what the WORD SAYS (and remember, folks, VP is the WORD) then you are way out of line!" But anything VEE PEE WEIRD-WILLE wanted to spout off was just fine…he just let it all loose upon the game. (Too bad we were the GAME.) Later on, LCM took that “letting loose” to a whole other DIMENSION! SPEC :)

Hey Waysider! Was there really any light at TWI to begin with? From what I have heard about all the plagerism that went on there, just about every bit of light they had wasn't even their own. It all belonged to somebody else. So the question is MOOT from the start. There was no light for anyone to be responsible for! SPEC

Hey you guys... In reference to the posed question... So - - - How many Wafers does it take to change a light bulb??... I believe we are approaching this question from the wrong perspective... We have two variables here: The Wafers and the Light Bulbs. Now just who in their right mind would care to mention the Wafers first, being of lesser value than a light bulb? Surely any light bulb is of greater importance than a "Wafer"! So, the way I see it, the question should be: How many light bulbs does it take to change a Wafer? OR even better put... How much LIGHT does it take to change a Wafer? From this context, we might discover something very illuminating -- har-har! The answer is of course: It's an impossibility -- it cannot be done! You can assemble every light bulb on the planet, hook them together, turn them all on at once, and direct that total energy towards the Wafer -- and even with ALL THAT LIGHT, all that ENERGY, there isn't even enough to change the Wafer one iota! The real truth is that you cannot change a Wafer...it must change itself ! I did it. You did it. We have all done it. That's how we all got to the GreaseSpot Cafe! Now -- Who wants coffee and a nice slice of pie? SPEC

My, oh my, there seems to be so much here already that it is hard to even catalogue. Much wonderful insight is found here at GS. I am posting because I believe I qualify. Charlene (Penworks) started the discusssion with: “Are you someone questioning the value of Biblical research done by The Way International (TWI) or groups run by former Way followers? I am. If you are, then what I have to say may interest you.” I am interested in this topic because I DO QUESTION the value of TWI’s research. In fact, I always have. I never bought into their interpretation of: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. They have used this verse, NOT to challenge people to really search for themselves to see if what was found actually “rings true to them” or not. To TWI, what it really means is: Work our findings in the precise manner that we have until they become your own conclusions as well. And if you happen to come up with anything contrary to it in the process, then you are horribly mistaken because WE ARE RIGHT ALREADY! We are not interested in your take on it -- even if what you find seems to make EVEN MORE SENSE than what we have taught. And in that case, once you start to say anything which seems to differ, we shall stifle you! And if you even DARE to promote this different rendering (“some other gospel”) among our followers, WE SHALL NOT ALLOW IT. We will treat you as a heretic, because we are not interested in YOUR RESEARCH, only ours! I found this to be true about them, though I just did not want to believe it. And this painfully took way, way too long. I had to find out the hard way for myself – by remaining honest with God, and OPEN to what He has written. I continued to search the scriptures as best I could with the BRAIN I was born with. True research is not to start with some sort of premise. It is honest and objective. And if what you find seems to have some merit, there should be some genuine interest on the part of everyone. Even the best of debates rely on the fairness of an independent mediator or moderator, which was NEVER THE CASE with TWI, for the further you go up the ladder, the worse it gets. Eventually, no matter how you try, you will run into the well-established BRICK WALL located at the ROOT of The Way Tree – HEADQUARTERS! Ever notice how over the years they stopped referring to their people as “Leaves on a mighty tree”, as one of their old Way Productions songs went? Ever notice how they eventually stopped using the term Twig as well? To anyone with a science background, that should speak volumes! Lest I seem to be getting OFF TOPIC here, let me relate with more of what Charlene had said in her article on the front page of GS, which this discussion is supposed to be addressing: “And from the Introduction to my all-time favorite by Karen Armstrong, The Battle for God, A History of Fundamentalism, here are a few words….” “….Christian fundamentalists reject the discoveries of biology and physics about the origins of life and insist that the Book of Genesis is scientifically sound in every detail.” Well, what if someone were to find things in the Bible which DO AGREE with science, and BOTH are found to be in harmony together? Let us keep in mind the following verse: Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: If this verse has any merit (oops…am I starting with some AXIOM myself now?) then we can understand that even spiritual truths (the invisible things of him) might well be ascertained indirectly from nature itself, by that which lies BEHIND the things that are made, which serve as their “physical examples”. Let me continue now… In botany, (and I am certainly no authority on the subject by any stretch) it is found that leaves collect energy directly from the sun and (by a process known as photosynthesis) turn it into a form of sugar called glucose. This needed nutrient not only helps the Leaves and their supporting Twig to be nourished by this light from the source, but this glucose is also transferred to the ROOT by way of the Twigs, Branches, Limbs and Trunks. The root collects all of this (indirectly from every leaf on the tree) and redistributes it back to the tree as it is needed so the entire structure flourishes. It should always have been a two-way street folks! If anyone truly found anything on his own (directly from the source of light) it should have been WELCOMED and utilized. But alas, there came a time when neither the leaves nor even the twigs were important enough to be recognized as useful. It became as though they had nothing to contribute. But lauded to the sky remained the “faithful leadership” -- the BRANCH, LIMB and TRUNK coordinators, etc, many of whom were usually ordained, or sold-out bond-slaves as well! And (lest I seem NOSTALGIC for the days when it all seemed right) let me say that I now firmly believe there NEVER TRULY WAS any desire for the leadership of TWI to accept anything from their followers, except for their LOYALTY and their hard-earned CASH, of course! When we take the long view of things, we know this to be a FACT. The Way used to pride itself saying how it was the NEW DYNAMIC CHURCH, implying that it constantly grew and changed just like a tree is normally designed to do in nature. Well I say, “How COULD IT, if you deny the leaves their natural job as designed by the Creator?” They were no different than any other organization which eventually had established many things and considered them to be SET IN STONE. They, who said they did not rely upon TRADITION, did EXACTLY THAT! And, as I said before, if any DARE disagree with any of their “precious foundation”, they would be considered a heretic. And under LCM’s administration this was doled out in the form of Mark and Avoid, or Abandoned. I am sure there are many here who can relate to that. I suppose I could write volumes here, but out of fairness I perceive it is time for me to suppress the urge to continue this ranting for now and give others an opportunity to respond. Let us hear what some of the other “leaves” (excuse me if that term seems offensive) have to contribute. SPEC :)

Hey all...I am still looking for that drawing from TWI. But I found this one, which I thought was especially humorous... I believe even Picasso would have been proud of it. Just click on the thumnail below! SPEC PS: Added note... Eze 1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. Could this lightning that went forth be the pilot firing a missle?

My take on the "good old days" is that each individual sees them as from the beginning of their relationship with TWI. Gradually, however, people with any brains at all continue to become wiser about the whole TWI thing over time. And as they do, things SEEM to become less and less WONDERFUL, making the "early years" seem like they were better than the present ones. Some take quite a while to leave TWI. After having done so, eventually (and this can take quite some time) they must admit that the only reason ANY OF IT ever seemed so darned nice was only because of their level of ignorance at the time. If they actually had known what they were getting into, they would not even have become involved AT ALL! Remember the old addage, "Hindsight is 20-20"? I believe that fits here. But now for "the truth" (as I see it): Ec 7:10 Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this. According to this, supposing that ANY TIME IN THE PAST (the former days) was better than the present is not thinking wisely. If we are truly living vitally, then things should generally be improving. We are getting wiser all the time when we stay involved and keep our eyes and ears open. Let us all remember that each day we live is one day closer to the return of Jesus Christ. That alone makes each day BETTER than the ones before. At least that's the way I see it. In the words of Carly Simon, in his song Anticipation (1971), "... these are the good old days." SPEC :)

Well, folks…here it is, finally. I should inform you all up front that I have not properly researched this at all – no word studies or working of related material in Revelation (where I believe Ezekiel is referring to, etc), or anywhere else. This is just something which occurred to me not too long after I had first joined TWI, and had taken their foundational class a few times, many years ago now. Around 1976 or so I was in the USAF and worked in a Control Tower. (That’s where I lost my mind – Ha! Ha!) As I read this 1st chapter of Ezekiel, I could not help relating many things with it from my experience as an Air Traffic Controller. This all might sound ridiculous – and for the life of me I can see absolutely no immediate profit in this, except to possibly satisfy some curiosity out there. But for what it is worth (And DO FEEL FREE to take pot shots at it if you like!), I give you all my take on it. Please consider this as just something for pure amusement and fun. At the least (though there is no way to prove any of it) much of it seems a plausible and logical explanation to me. Perhaps there are those who could agree. Thank you all for listening – here goes nothing! 1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. 2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin’s captivity, 3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him. 4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. At this point, we must realize that whatever Ezekiel actually saw, he had to explain it all somehow in present terms and his understanding of the times. I submit that what he saw were jet aircraft of the future. (and probably OUR FUTURE as well). The amber color is basically emanating from the cockpit, and the fire he talked about was electric lighting. (There was just no other way to explain it in his terms.) The fire enfolding itself and the great cloud could be explained by an afterburner and contrails. If you have seen this for yourself, you could relate just as I did. The likeness of a man sounds like the pilots to me (out of the midst of the fire which lit up the cockpits). An interesting thing to note from here on is the fact that he called these “living creatures”. However, these were SEPARATE from that which he could recognize , which were obviously WHEELS to him. Please bear that in mind as I continue “my ranting”. Ha! Ha! 6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. The faces may be decals, The wings were just that – wings! Two in front, and two behind, at the tail section). 7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf’s foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. The feet were the struts, which were part of the landing gear. The sole of their feet were the TANDEM WHEELS – split, like a calf’s hoof. And they were shiny and polished just like brass. 8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. Hands of a man could again be decals, just as the faces. And the wings he could recognize as such. 9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. Now this is interesting! For a bird to change direction, it twists or turns its wings. But Ezekiel made the puzzling observation that these wings stayed straight all the time, even when these living creatures turned. And the wings were joined together – they were rigid, unlike birds’ wings which operate independently. 10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Again…perhaps decals. Have you ever seen “eagles” painted on aircraft? Hmmm! 11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. Now, their wings were stretched UPWARD. How interesting! I have personally seen naval aircraft whose wings were in a vertical position for easier storage below-deck.. 12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. As for this “spirit”, this is what, to Ezekiel, “gives life” to these creatures. We will see later on that he considered this spirit to be “in the wheels”. 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. All you have to consider is that these are jet aircraft, and you can immediately see what Ezekiel is trying his best to explain in his own terms. (afterburners, electric lighting, etc.) 14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. And they were FAST too – they went like a flash of lightning, compared to all the birds he had ever seen! 15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. A beryl is a silvery color, like aluminum. A wheel in the middle of a wheel is a great way to describe what we can see from the side of an aircraft’s landing gear. You have the tire, then the hub, with lug nuts all around it, and it all looks just like a wheel within a wheel – much more complex than a chariot wheel for sure! 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. He really cannot grasp the idea as to why these wings remained straight all the time, could he? It just was not logical. Perhaps he didn’t notice the flaps and ailerons. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. The word rings is actually RIMS. And they were much higher than any wheels he had ever seen! The eyes could be explained as lug nuts, or perhaps where the spokes were fastened. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. As I said before, Ezekiel treated these planes as a combination of living creatures (the body, wings, and cockpit) and the wheels, which were constructed. And after the planes had taken off, the WHEELS went with them! 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. He observed that these wheels and the living creatures “somehow” all went together. And he saw the landing gear go right up inside the living creatures after take-off! He supposed that was to “give life” to the creatures, so they could fly. 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. Cockpits? 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies. See? There are two wings on each side. There are many of these types to be seen even today if one were to visit a naval aircraft site on the web. 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings. And here they are on the flight deck with their wings in the upward position. And they were turning on their engines, making a lot of noise, just like great waters. And now you hear the voice of speech, just like God. (sort of reminds me of the movie The Ten Commandments, when God said, “Moses!”. Ha! Ha!) And as they are preparing for departure, they LET DOWN THEIR WINGS. (Duh!) 25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings. And now, they hear a voice from the sky (firmament) above. 26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. This voice came from what looked like a throne (the tower itself) with a man on it (who has a microphone in his hand). Have you ever seen the top of a control tower – how the windows angle upward and outward? This is to reduce glare, so the controllers can see better. And the tower is flat on top. This configuration is well-described by Ezekiel as “a sapphire”! Was this voice saying something like, “Agar six four – wind, two, one, zero at five knots – altimeter two niner point three – cleared for take-off.” ?? Who the heck knows, anyway? 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. And the amber color all around the man is proper also. I used to work in a tower! 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. And there are other colors also. (Blue, green, red, yellow, etc, all having their different significances, but we won’t go into all that detail, except to say it all might remind somebody of a rainbow of sorts.) This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake. And this electrical lighting was BRIGHT, just like the glory of the Lord. And then the voice… Then begins Chapter 2. This voice was God speaking to Ezekiel to inform him of what to say to warn Israel. Whatever this vision is, it's definitely of some future time for Ezekiel and his contemporaries, and ours as well, as the vision seems to relate with things in the book of Revelation. I would bet there are a “lot of holes” in my observation. As I said, FEEL FREE to comment, good or bad, it makes no difference to me. As the kids are saying these days – "IT’S ALL GOOD!" SO, LET’S HAVE SOME REAL FUN WITH THIS THREAD! SPEC

My apologies to all -- for making you all wait so long to hear what I had come up with! Please forgive me. Somehow I had gotten so busy with other matters (I am in the middle of publishing my first book) that I had completely forgotten about this post, and only today had I returned to Greasespot to discover my folly. I shall be spending perhaps a few hours on the matter right away... thank you all for your patience! SPEC

Perhaps LCM could well serve as Head Custodian of Home Depot. I can almost hear him now... "If you guys don't do exactly as I ask, I will have you all cleaning grease spots by midnight !!" Anyone get it? SPEC

Thanks for trying Waysider! It is probably within one of the AC handouts somewhere. I do remember the picture somewhat. It was a comglomeration of all the elements in Ezekiel 1 in one picture. (Reminded me a bit of the cartoon at the beginning of the old TV show "Dennis the Menace" as he moved about as a tornado upsetting all in his path - ha!) The drawing of a whirlwind, containing some chariot wheels and faces like a lion and an eagle, etc... all the elements into one BLOB of a picture. I wanted to believe the ministry had uncovered some provocative new "revelation" and wanted to believe it, but my first gut reaction was sheer laughter! It seemed too ridiculous to be true. Such are some of my fondest memories of TWI. How ridiculous it ALL BECAME over the years! (I do remember good times early on with friends, etc, and it wasn't all bad all the time.) I had some time ago discovered what makes a lot of sense about that record in Ezekiel. Nobody seems to even approach it over the WEB WORLDWIDE either...if you are curious or interested, I could post my findings for all or just privately at first with you...it's your call, my friend... SPEC

Nice topic DOT! I am enjoying it quite a bit. Whether or not an Apostle is one who brings "new light" or not has not been absolutely proven here, although there does seem to be some evidence in favor of it. Here is "my take" on this... Truly the "short definition" is SENT ONE, in the sense of an ambassador. But we have to consider what is he sent to DO? He is to SPEAK about his country. An ambassador is sent to a foreign country to impress upon them values of the nation he represents. New and different ideas are certainly involved...better ways of operating a government and serving the people, etc. Once an apostle arrives, what he speaks is what the people do not yet know or understand about God and the truth. Therefore, what an apostle imparts to them is "the LIGHT of God's Word" and it is NEW to them. In that sense is how an apostle imparts "new light". Now, as far as "gift ministries" in general are concerned, I believe TWI had veered from the truth about them from the very beginning. They seemed to imply that in order for one to receive any of these, it was best to join the Corps and then eventually become "Ordained Clergy", and (by the laying on of hands) these ministries would be imparted to the recipient. (Nice way to dangle a carrot in front of people to encourage lots of followers to SERVE the ministry by becoming Way Corps!) I went WOW (for the first time) in 1977. I distinctly remember VPW when he informed us that (through him of course!) God had sanctioned us to be as TRUE APOSTLES for our entire year of service -- and just how special we were in HIS EYES, etc! So, VPW also gave the notion that one could also have a (temporary) gift ministry. (Nice way to increase the numbers of people who would SERVE the ministry as WOW Ambassadors!) But in truth, GOD HIMSELF (through Christ) gives these ministries. And (as all gifts) they are by grace, and not by the promise of service to "some man's ministry". I do not deny however that NOBODY ever received any of these by first going in the Corps, etc. By God's grace, and knowing the true heart and intent of the individual HE IMPARTS as the people have NEED. Even in "the world", honorary degrees are available to people at times despite their lack of formal education or training in an area. And these come with all the rights and privileges as those who actually earned the PH'd by graduating from a university. Surely God also does that as well as man can! And who is to know just who has what? Such things can be discerned "spiritually" by those who can be trusted not to "compare themselves among themselves" and becoming filled with either pride or jealousy, etc. It is entirely God's business how to equip his people to serve one another in the best manner possible. One last thing in general about these gift ministries…they are first and foremost to be operated among the believers. Evangelists (for instance) work within God’s family to expound how best to build up the BELIEVERS by sharing in-depth understanding and insight concerning the “new birth”. Equipped with that info, everyone can witness more effectively to those who desire to become born again. There are a great many truths which have been “lost” over the years and are just waiting to be “rediscovered” by “Biblical Pioneers” who search the scriptures for nuggets of gold just as prospectors do. And what joy when they are found and shared with all! If it is someone’s heart’s desire to find “new things” in the Bible, just as someone in the world could desire to be an inventor, then simply try and don’t give up. Search the scriptures and enjoy doing it! Want a ministry? First show God your desire by doing what you can on your own toward that desire. If God sees you have need at times, surely He can help your endeavour to find “new light” by supplying some special “gift” to help you in your work if need be. God knows we shall “always” need more Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers among ourselves. Let us simply believe for these in our lives and do what we are able for each other with them! 1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. This verse does not necessarily imply that we believe for those who already have these gift ministries to be assigned to our area, despite how TWI would have their followers think. It only says to “desire them as you would a great treasure” so to speak. The more excellent way is “Charity”, which reminds me of a poem I wrote in 1975. I shall close with that… SOMETHING WORTH GIVING Is there something worth giving you can give to a friend? Do it now while he’s living; do not wait till the end. Though one’s mind holds all mysteries, knowledge and faith, His deeds won’t be history without love; there’s no trace. While bestowing one’s treasures to feeding the poor, He can give without measure, yet one thing is sure: Even giving his life for a great, noble cause Will profit him nothing; without God’s love it’s lost. Charity is giving God’s love to mankind, And it’s given with cheerfulness; it’s not hard to find. So study His Word and share to begin, And you’ll see that God’s charity is right there within. Whatever you do for God, do it with might! And share it with charity; fight the good fight. So give what’s worth giving; God’s keeping the score; So that now and in heaven you’ll receive your rewards. Copyright 1975 - Melliott Productions SPEC

Truly he was considered as "#2" by many of TWI because of all the .... that spewed out of his mouth at times! Perhaps his appointment to President should have included a lot of TOILET PAPER as well as his "ministries", just to help clean up HIS MOUTH! :) And concerning his "SKIRT MINISTRY" (mentioned in another thread), was his frequent quote of "operating all nine all the time" in reference to NINE of his FAVORITE CORPS WOMEN who visited him during the night hours in his Chalet in the Way Woods? Spec

Quite a long time ago someone with TWI drew a picture of what he supposed Ezekiel's Vision was. I remember it looked similar to something PICASSO might have come up with. But I cannot remember just where I saw it. I have checked sylabusses and some books, but cannot locate it. Can someone please help me find that drawing?

Here's 3 of my own...fresh off the press! "I have a great respect for E.W. Bullinger -- if it were not for him, TWI would have little to share!" "I AM the Lord, your Way International -- I change not!" Although we have seen much plagerism among those at TWI, I must give credit to one individual who actually came up with something on his own: LCM has taught that the serpent in the Garden of Eden actually appeared to Eve in the form of a woman -- and was having LESBIAN SEX with her! (Gag me with a spoon!) All for now... Spec :)

I tell people I have 3 brothers. When they ask their names, I say "Dana, Steven, Greg and Harry". After that, some ask "Isn't that four"? Then I reply, "You see, Greg and Harry are my two half brothers!" SPEC