spectrum49

As I had indicated: "Perhaps this [what you quoted of me] is a slight deviation from the topic, but for what it's worth, here goes:" Certainly we differ on this. Because it's tangential to the Topic (Act 2:1-4) it should be discussed elsewhere, on its own. But thanks for "your take" on it.

That sounds entirely feasible to me! Surely, God (via foreknowledge) could have planned an earthquake he knew was coming to coincide with the monumental event at Pentecost.

I remember once at a Rock of Ages (I forget the year) when VP was under the big-top, teaching quite a bit more in-depth concerning Biblical administrations than what was in PFAL. (things like: "not reading the past into the future" or "the present into the past" or "one part of the future into another part of the future", etc) Having loved grammar all my life, I was already aware of some of these things from studying comprehension skills. Nevertheless, I was very impressed with some things I hadn't come across. But here's the interesting part: Many times, he was pausing quite a few seconds between remarks. Ordinarily, I would suppose a teacher would be doing that either for inflection or merely to collect his thoughts. But often, I noticed him glancing upward before continuing. (And I'm sure many of you here at GS already know the rest!) He was intentionally giving the impression that God was revealing stuff directly to him by revelation --- fresh off the press, as it were. Along with many, I was in awe of his spiritual prowess! However, some years later I finally bought a copy of Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible. Lo and behold! --- In Part I, III, iv, 1-6 (covering pages 105ff) I saw that entire ROA teaching (supposedly from God to VP to us) plainly laid out in print --- right before my very eyes! (What I thought then really isn't worth mentioning, so I'll just stop here.)

Glad to help! As I had indicated earlier: Although this is "somewhat more remote" in context with the actual record of Pentecost (Act 2:1-4, etc) it does indeed relate. (In fact, the entire Word from Gen to Rev is basically telling only one story --- of which we perceive baptism to be a rather important aspect.)

Genesis 1: God's Table of Contents to the Bible (And it's available for download here at GS, if you like.)

Unfortunately, my plight wasn't as easy to become rid of. I kept giving them the benefit, of the benefit, of the benefit, of the benefit of the doubt, that they just didn't see the "wonderful new light" I had found yet --- the book I wrote about Gen 1. At one time, I was actually commanded in the name of Jesus Christ to literally burn all of my 7 years of private research on the subject --- which of course, I very sadly obeyed. (Boo-hoo!) But (with God's help) I was somehow able to put it all back together! That was in '95. And I kept hoping that the next Limb Coordinator might see the logical way I presented the material...and the next...and the next (many times waiting 3-5 years for a "different opinion" upon the arrival of the new clergy). Long story short: I finally left in utter frustration after another 14 years or so, in 2009. (And I published my book shortly thereafter.)

Perhaps this is "old news" to you, but because I hadn't frequented GS in some time --- I had missed this topic from 2014. If it's not too late, I'll chime in: I remember "the split" which (to my knowledge) truly began sprouting up shortly after VP had died. By the latter 80's to early 90's (which LCM had termed the fog years) this rift in the ministry finally became quite evident to most everyone. Yet, (despite the variances here and there, which were contentions about one subject or the other...like adultery, etc) all in all, the different camps (offshoots) were still so similar (because of the 90% or so they yet had in common) that some distinction had to be made in order to recognize just which one still taught the absolute truth! Therefore, those of us who remained after "the deluge" were (affectionately) given the (high and lofty) title: "the faithful remnant". That sure made us proud not to have left along with those nasty rags --- which had once been part of a most beautiful robe...or something to that effect! Speaking of terminology though, I've something I consider quite unique to share which might interest you: Early on (in May '75) I was proud of The Way naming itself as such --- because they actually called it The Way Biblical Research and Teaching Ministry. Being rather analytically minded, one day I saw Jn 14:6 in a light I hadn't noticed before: Jn 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life..." And I thought to myself: "So, Jesus Christ is: (1) the way, (= The Way) (2) the truth, (= Biblical Research, which discovers the truth) (3) and the life..." (= and Teaching these things promotes the life within the Ministry) Now, I wasn't exactly sure if TWI actually saw it this way, but that didn't seem to matter to me: Because (after all) I considered they were just being honest as to who they are and what they were doing. And I simply marveled: "WOW!!! This really is the one and only true ministry of Jesus Christ, because (even by it's sheer name) it's just so plain to see! It's truly 'the way, the truth, and the life ministry' --- exactly like Jesus said!" Boy, was I hooked --- like a catfish on a lure! Later on though, (still being analytical) I noticed a rather subtle change to this perfection in what the ministry called itself. For by then (in order to make the proper distinction I mentioned above, once there were many similar ministries around) they had added something to the original; for it was now called: The Way Biblical Research Teaching and Fellowship Ministry. Spiritually, this didn't sit very well with me --- because it seemed akin to adding to the Word, which is wrong --- just like what Eve had done in Eden! (And Jesus Christ certainly didn't say: "I am the way the truth, the life and the fellowship...") So why the addition? Simply, it was just another convention they used --- in order to isolate and control people! Because now: It no longer mattered so much what was actually taught, because all of the various offshoots had their different flavors of truth, so to speak. What was so important though is what LCM sternly warned and threatened people with: "Just who do you stand with?" So, who you fellowshiped with made all the difference. And LCM's laws just "got tougher and tougher", until I had finally had my fill. If only I had been a bit keener in my spiritual perception (based upon the unwarranted addition to the ministry's name) I might have saved myself from a few more years of grief and frustration! And the moral? Hindsight is 20-20!

Perhaps this is a slight deviation from the topic, but for what it's worth, here goes: One thing which was presented quite accurately (in that other ministry, yet copied from elsewhere!) concerns the terms kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God. (For brevity's sake, I'll not belabor myself to show the subtleties of the distinction between them here.) Basically: (1) The kingdom of God is overall, covering everything concerning God's own kingdom --- which (of course) includes the spiritual realm. (2) However, the kingdom of heaven is rather limited to an earthly kingdom. You may recall how John the Baptist frequently remarked: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". (Later on, just after Jesus had heard John was in prison...to be beheaded...he began using that phrase himself --- taking over where John had left off, as it were.) Anyway: Even though the (earthly) kingdom of heaven "was at hand", that doesn't necessarily mean it was a valid statement --- as of yet! (After all, to properly have a kingdom upon earth requires the physical presence of a king; and technically, Jesus wasn't yet a king; those of Israel merely assumed so at the time.) [Now: There's a rather mysterious reason why God allowed Israel to (falsely) proclaim Jesus as King of the Jews, even though it wasn't yet an actual reality. But I won't go into that aspect here and now. Let it suffice that (later on) Jesus will rule as a king upon earth.] [And that's where The Way had another thing correct: But as usual, the info was obtained (actually, plagiarized) from another source, long before PFAL.] And this concerns how the kingdom of heaven was discontinued after Jesus departed --- and is still being held in abeyance until his return (in Revelation) when he receives his official title as King of Kings, after which he'll rule his kingdom upon earth (the finally realized kingdom of heaven...duh!) for 1,000 years (aka: the millennium). Meanwhile, he's a resident of God's Kingdom. And it appears that he's the only one so far...who was once human. (The angels have resided there from antiquity.) Although being subjects of the realm isn't yet a virtual reality for us, we're informed in a figure that (spiritually speaking, mind you!) it's a present reality for us --- even as "we're already seated in the heavenlies", per Ephesians. And the reason this is so is because (as I said earlier) the Kingdom of God includes the spiritual realm, to which we have been initiated (baptized into) --- per our obedience to Ro 10:9, which pertains to the new birth (lit: born from above; ie: having received spiritual life). Nevertheless, what we have presently (though quite vast in itself!) is a merely a portion (earnest; or token, per Eph 1:14) of what we shall have in full, even as Jesus Christ has presently. So yes...technically Jesus is the only actual subject of The Kingdom of God, because (per Mk 16:19) he ascended to God's throne. But sometime later on, we'll join him there, where God rules as THE KING.

You're quite welcome, chock! (By the way, the spiritual meaning behind numbers appearing in Scripture is quite fascinating to me, personally!) Here's a link to something "fairly straightforward and rather simple" concerning the number 12 in Scripture: http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/12.html ENJOY! (But use caution: If you delve too far into numerology, it becomes increasingly VAST!) On a related note: In case you're unaware of this, here's a tangent which might make you wonder --- in sheer awe! Gematria is the technique of using the numeric values of Hebrew and Greek letters to find a hidden or symbolic meaning to the corresponding word. (Each letter in those languages has a number associated with it; and it's possible to gain insight via this convention.) For example, the combined value of the numbers associated with the words man and woman (when added together) are equivalent to the value of the word child. In other words: man + woman = child! (Well...so much for that! --- Enjoy "12")

Yes...Jn 3:8 does seem a bit like a "more remote connection" to all of this. Perhaps (at some later time) we might explore that intriguing avenue. Yet (as I believe the 3 of us...Tax, chock and yours truly...are all aware) the entirety of Scripture is basically one great overall connected context! Nevertheless, (because you're somewhat curious) Rob J Hyndman seemed to sum it up pretty well at the following link: http://bibleq.net/answer/2891/ (And not to worry --- it's very short!)

To quote Jim Carrey: "Well, alrighty then!" How about a little more detail, perhaps to make it a bit more intriguing? So, let's go back a tad: As we see in the latter part of Acts 1, there was a problem: Because Judas was dead, there were only 11 apostles. And (for some spiritual reason [?] or other) it appears there actually needed to be twelve present to receive the holy spirit. It seems to me that the great event which was to happen on Pentecost was slightly delayed because of this glitch. And therefore, something needed to be done --- to put things back into proper order. (Notice they even considered their intended action as the fulfilling of a prophecy from Psalms! -- See Act 1:20) NOW LOOK --- The "ands" we saw in Acts 2 were actually preceded by a few more of them: Act 1:23-26 "And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said: 'Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, that he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.' And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles." At this point, it might be said: "Okay, Houston: the problem has been fixed! We have twelve again, so let's resume the countdown." Now, the very next verse: Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place...." Is that more inspiring to you --- or are you still in scribe city? The crescendo...yes! --- and especially the culminating point which we see in the latter part of verse 47: "...And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Now, isn't this our main objective --- to build God's family? (yet not only in numbers, but quality as well!)

This might be a bit off-topic, but (to me) it still relates because it's along the lines of changing wording to suit one's own perspective. It has to do with The Way's "literal translations, according to usage". This classic example of mine (which I hope you'll enjoy, along with me) is as follows: “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, [to determine] whether those things were so.” (Act 17:11 - KJV) The word whether is very interesting here. When this verse is worked honestly, it really means: “by searching the scriptures daily, they could determine for themselves whether or not what they had been taught made sense to them (that is: whether those things were so). For all they knew, there was potential for it not to line up with the scriptures they had at hand. And they could comprehend this merely by comparing it on their own, so they could plainly see for themselves if what they had heard was really the truth. Now—this is what God calls being noble. [And this is very simple to see: The word whether is the Greek word “ei”. Of the 292 times it occurs in the NT, it’s translated “if” 242 times. So—we can read this verse “and searched the scriptures daily, [to determine] IF those things were so.”.] But TWI had a different slant on this verse! They teach it just as though the Greek word “ei” should be translated “that” instead of “if”. In other words: “You work exactly what we showed you, until you can see for yourself that those things are so." Let’s show that another way --- by using the scripture verse again: [What TWI says is in red font --- and replaces what’s been crossed out.] "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word the teachings of The Way with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures only within those teachings (also including what was taught about them elsewhere, by looking up all the verses used --- via The Way International Publications Scripture Index...and reading all of those articles as well) daily, whether those things were so. proving to themselves that what was already taught to them was the absolute truth of the Word of God --- because they had made it their own! Now—that’s not what I consider being noble --- it’s what I call being puppets on a string!

My my --- aren't WE agreeable today! (Bless ya...)

I totally agree this is a summary statement, generally commenting upon how the believers conducted themselves --- and is not portraying the things mentioned in any progressive order.