wing

spinning wheel david clayton thomas (blood sweat & tears)

Mark... I dunno. could've been Bob. He played an evening of his own stuff at the way CULTural center (the old church in new bremen). You may be right about yarddog, instead of junkyard dog. He told a story about the nickname at that show, a dog that protects a junkyard? I wouln't have a clue about the sound of a second recording (he did ask me to play some mandolin for him at a recording session, that was to take place up north -chicago, or maybe in michigan - I passed on the invite for... I don't remember why). I don't know anything at all about an Acts 29, ... I was probably long gone. Don'tWorryBeHappy would likely remember at least his name, ... if he sees this and wants to chime in.

WordWolf, and JustSayNo..... Thanks guys love ya's _ing

Sorry dooj .... I don't know anything about that. Seems to me like they didn't stay around for very long. thanks again for helping out with the name.

I wish I were more computer savy... so that I could just post a link, but I did a google search on 'groovy christians of rye new york' and it returned, among other things, a published article called "My Cult Years" a personal history by John Seiffer. http://www.andretobias.com/cgi-local/display_col.pl?050720 In the article he quotes that it is his mom, speaking about him: "drugs I can understand, but this is creepy"

Now I See... You raise honest concerns about vic in his younger days. "... he had to be preying on women early on to be so bold.... perversions had to have started way back when he was young... he just ain't right, these actions ain't normal..." The early part of vic's life is pretty blank to us. For young adulthood, we've been at least a little misled about his schooling; then told that he simply 'left' church he was pastoring, merely because he made a choice to favor of da verd. I dunno what happened with him; but - what if he had been fired? or urged to leave over some stuff like this...? His personal history, given a part of 'twi - lore' is so one sided, skewed and spun. Lots of missing pieces. Aren't normal people (guys in leadership-teaching-speaking capacities) inclined to mention publicly of loving their wife? Or loving their kids? at least once in dozens of years? VP criticized his family, and publicly tolerated his wife. Aren't normal people inclined to admit to a least an occasional mistake? Or allowing that maybe just maybe a mistake could happen? VP criticized others, but not himself. I was so fooled, not only did I think he was normal... I also thought he set an example to follow. Time to pull away the curtain. Ex... 30+ years ago (although I thought I knew so much), I wish...

That is funny! Reminds me of my buddy, he sent in for an ordination from -yes- the back of a match book cover. They sent him a certificate. He used it to start up a prison fellowship ... way back when. It was even a TWI thing.

he was no pastor. he was no rock star.

Kris describe such an erie scene. Who greets a guest into their private quarters while wearing only a robe? Was he trying to be h*gh h*fner?

doojable: New Horizons! Thank you. waysider: Thanks! way to go! john m...... sometimes those names from long ago just tease my memory. 100% agree with you that vp's actions do not match those of one whose chief concern was the spread of the gospel. I know that money played a part. follow the money. always a motivator. I would not play that down. But his dander didn't get up much about money. He pretty much got things he wanted. (Even before the 70's growth spurt.) A lot of that with Harry's help. I think he may have used his brother. :( I wonder if there was maybe a quiet sibling rivalry that vic ultimately won? How carefully VPW guarded the things that affected his own self perception, and the precious perceptions of others about him. How carelessly he treated other things. When it came to money (even in the overall plaf loss-leader scam of TWI), the money maybe was sweet, but domination over people... surely that was sweet too. No doubt that some clergy ordinations became money makers. No doubt that some of them became money losers. But no doubt they all stroked that man-o-gawd ego, vowing their allegiance to his verd. A driving ego may explain a lot.

robes, much love to you and your family. very sorry for your loss.

Hi waysider, Hi GrouchoMarxJr, Hi Yanagisawa, I think that it was his pride / ego that motivated vpw more than money. The getting, keeping, and having of the upper hand in any possible way. Lots of examples come to mind. If vp ever wasted money, he never-never-never wasted the currency of his own self esteem. Vp regularly quipped against any egos in da vey purduction peoples ( I personally find that to be ironic) But, on another note: You mentioned so many localized groups. Do you happen to recall the name of that late 70's (or early 80's) quartet? they came from Chicago? (I think.) There were four guys (black vocalists, who sang to prerecorded tracks in a style kinda like 'earth-wind & fire'). and the song that vp hooked onto was a cover of "Celebration"? They were a 'from the field' musical group that vp brought into hq for a while, and did put on some ministry stages; they may have even done some touring for the ministry. Does anyone remember them? Reason I ask, is because of the quick and sudden demise they had when it came to VP's support for them. (I don't think I'm telling any secrets here...) Seems that one of those boys got caught up in a 'sex-on-the-road' experience that was made public, so VP cut em off and sent em home. Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? (no pun -or racial inference- intended) Was 'Hope' the name of that group out of Columbus? the ones that recorded album 'O Theopholis'? John.... (forgot his name). I really liked what he did. Used to keep up with him, seems forever ago now. Ralph D also brought a guy in once. Great singer, writer, artist. Forgot his name too. nicknamed Junkyard Dog? I'm sorry that I lost track of him too... and alfakat .... thanks. hope that you and yours are doing well!

Someone who kept a journal would know better than me (even though I was there) ... ya want a guess? for fading memories sake? either 78, 79, or 80.

VP does not deserve any of the cordial niceties that he his granted around here. But he does deserve much worse than merely being 'exposed' in the open light of day. What if this were your little sister telling you about this? What if it were your little brother? Even this many years gone by? I'll just call him a mean bully, ... to be nice about it. No way in all of creation is God ever gonna be happy about these things being done by VP. Pawtucket - I just listened to Losing the Way part 2 (but I guess that you can already tell that...) Thank you very much for your efforts. wing

:) "ps. something i would really enjoy is if someone would type their tongue out and we could see if we could get a translation going......" sounds like it could be some fun. and you just gave me a really good chuckle.