chockfull

Yes yes - very chaotic times. Men in tights being introspective, down, depressed. Not displaying any leadership. Coming out of it quickly and flipping on people - becoming angry about Geer, starting to build justification, starting to put together what he later taught as Galatians tapes where he basically screams and curses and calls Geer possessed. Everybody else is also introspective, down, depressed. I was young and observing not experiencing at that time, but the impact of Geer practically seems to be that just about everybody is down, depressed over his critical summary supposedly from VP beyond the grave. That's the context of the letter.

Sue Pi3rc3 and R@lph D born of the wrong seed, eh? I never met R but I mean Sue was from what I remember how you say long-winded? I mean you get her, jellyroll plus pat in the same room together for 3 days? Yeesh. No wonder 37 pages. Whose idea was it for the fable at the beginning with the boy and the map? Double yeesh. I have read this before, and read through it again. It took me a minute to get down to what the point was of all of this. Then I looked at the letter date. I'm not 100% sure on the exactness of this, but I think that this was actually a response to a "call for commitment" letter that men in tights sent out around that same time period? Where he specifically asked people who they stood with? Geer or him? There's one point in the letter talking about standing for or against people versus standing for the Word. I remember that terminology being popular around the timeframe as a response, and men in tights would become infuriated by this and rant and rave and kick people out. This happened as a result of this letter, I think. jellyroll got fired and as dwbh says they started CES, then jellyroll went all on his trip with Momentus and invited the G's and S in, and that led to all sorts of shenanigans with revelations about spiders and such. Dueling revelation. And men in tights went on doing men in tights things. And to answer where my head was at the time, I was a young mushroom. Not fit for things of elder mushrooms like long papers on POOP, etc. Had to read that later. Suffer my own suffrages. Leave when I understood to. Deal with the next gen Pharisees more evil than the first. But overall the problem men in tights had was projecting nothing but confusion while Geer attacked, then when coming out of it he never built a base with people but just became quickly demanding that people honor his mantle installation as Prez without showing them much of any reason to. You see a lot of a response to that in the letter too. I don't want to trivialize the impact of the letter or what sending out 7000 copies did to the Way at the time, but this letter was not alone in this type of a response. This is the time period that 4/5 of everyone left the Way. Many of them had exactly the same reasoning and scriptural basis you see in this letter.

So the Way did put out a tape class called Keys to Financial LIberty wherein G@ry Fr3d3rick teaches things like net worth, budgeting, tracking finances, recovering from a hardship, retirement planning. The problem the Way has is not in being able to put out Dave Ramsey like materials which they can do fine, it is in the overt control, manipulation, and overstepping of boundaries in their policies and interactions with followers. The Way has boundary problems. Why? Because the Way is a cult. Functionally, the Way operates on "It Is Policy" over "It Is Written" and has forever. The position of the person saying it in the Way is much more important than what it is that is being said. Yet, every once in a while a person in very high authority in the Way can just wax reflective and say "The Bible teaches us this" in a soft voice to back off all critics of a Pharisaic policy. In a Pharisaic society, the financial liberty really only goes to the top Pharisees. Everyone else gets a cool idea while money flows upward.

So to answer that question, one thing that would have to be answered first is "what kind of questions emanating from the flock would be in the category of that requiring "further research"? We have already established that the Way has no personnel in their Research Department as full-time personnel. The Way is not actively pursuing "further research" on their own without any outside impetus that would be in the category of updating or changing anything they taught. Mostly research in the Way is governed by Way Publications, which is Rozilla's baby. They are concerned with what Ralph Waldo Emerson calls "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds", from his essay on Self-Reliance. This means that what is of most interest is that what is put out currently matches what was put out previously especially in key areas of concern. This is primarily driven by who dictates Way strategy in these items, that being legal advice - and most especially Rozilla's relationship with one Louis C0lumb0. That influence on all the lawsuit defenses dictated the strategy that followed. Limit legal exposure by maintaining the same doctrine. Change in longtime doctrine and rules opens legal exposure. So again what question would trigger research? The only one I am aware of in a few decades is that over the topic of debt. That one has had the flock in arms for decades. People have phoned in, written in, researched in, adviced in, and sacrificed their ministry careers in for quite some time over this topic. People have lovingly presented an opposing opinion to the Board of D's straight from scripture and common sense, only to be blackballed, put on probation, dropped, and shunned. You know, all that stuff the new loving ministry doesn't do any more, right? The latest twisted logic on this is that now the Way has two distinctions for fellowship coordinators - one a Household Fellowship Coordinator - the title reserved for someone that they Way considers "out of debt". Then they have the distinction of "Bible Study coordinator" - this one is someone who the way considers "in debt". I guess the logic there is that someone could study the Bible, but not really have "full fellowship" because of this debt consideration. Next, what does the Way consider "in debt"? This gets down into Pharisaical divisions such as whether or not a person has leased a car or purchased a car on a car loan. The former is considered by the Way "out of debt", while the latter is considered "in debt", thus subject to denigrating or less entitled labels, restrictions from certain classes such as the advanced class, and restrictions from leadership programs or outreach programs such as Way Disciples or the Way Corps. A home mortgage is considered "in debt". Thus, none of the field leadership in the Way would be able to purchase a home without the cash to do so up front. Well that's not totally true. They have this thing that's like an "entitlement exception" Apparently if you have some form of a relative who can put your mortgage in their name, then the Way does not consider you "in debt". You know, the Bible teaches against that, but that's irrelevant, right? We're going for that foolish consistency. So - Way signature for success - car LEASE, home LEASE, or mortgage in relative's name. Hey you're traveling light, not tied down to this world, you know, like the Indian guy on the H1 visa who has the mortgage on the house you are renting. Can you paint the walls? Nope. Will he fix the water filter? Sure sure - he'll get to it. But he may change his plans you know, so you might have to move. Long-term stability? Hey Jesus never owned property - he was just thankful and moved where he could when he could. All this so that the Way does not have to change something that they have previously taught on the topic. So my friend I am sorry for such a long answer to a short question. But it kind of gives a little perspective.

I don't know, the only thing preventing TWI's sexual assaults from coming to light by the media is that we don't have a celebrity like Leah Remini to do a documentary expose, absorb all the hate mail, and sit people down interview style to document all the personal impact. Hey Leah, want a side project? LOL.

Yes, definitely the modus operandi of the Board of Dolts is to package up some new and improved different class series based on the original series but different enough to try and distance from the bad press of the teachers who came up with the series. Maybe as enough time goes by they hope that people will forget. Then they won't have to whitewash, they hope to present a fresh and clean image to a younger generation that doesn't know anything about the real history of the Way ministry. Then they can just direct the slavelings to "run the class" and everything in life will solve itself. Meanwhile, the dolts can collect statistics on the classes run, and "manage" from above. All while surviving off the $65M from when the Jesus movement brought in income. Nefarious plan. Sounds like a movie that could be entitled "The Long Con".

Oh and welcome to the 'spot, kingtravel4. Have a cup of joe and a footie pic on the house.

CF&S - oh man. veeps classes were twisted as TBone highlights. anything he did in residence i would highly suspect was for the purpose of watching audience reactions to single out potential victims. I mean how are you going to counsel believers if they are down in Tijuana doing a film threesome with a German shepherd? Seriously? Only V to the P to the W would see the vision of his life as counseling in such a scenario. And he did. Other CF&S classes through the years? This is like trying to remember something your subconscious really doesn't want to remember. Didn't men in tights and belladonna do one of these classes at one point? did that make it on film ever? omg if anyone ever dug up a copy of that it would be worth the price of popcorn in comedic value for sure. I think the latest I knew about was the Coulters did one. Early 2000s - don't know if that one is still the one in use. They are more normal, that class is more normal and mainstream. None of the bizarro stuff like from previous two Prez. behavior and teaching. It's a bit vanilla. But I mean hey in contrast to the prior vanilla is just fabulous. Oh, except I still can't use that fabulous word, because, you know, it's the preferred adjective of those people whose behavior we can't allow in fellowship at all. But you might still find them wandering around at HQ holding hands but keeping PDA to a minimum.

I was wondering about the relevance to the Way here in this Premier League rant, and I think I may have it. A 1-0 Liverpool win is kind of like the modern WAP class. LOL.

It kind of doesn't. I mean I know someone encouraged it by posting up a Dirk Diggler video and that had to remind you of LCM in tights thus inspiring you to watch Athletes of the Spirit, but I think it is a little too far of a leap for most people to make the connection. Thus a video review of Athletes doesn't exactly flow with the topic. LOL.

Yes, no doubt. Filling in details... WAP - this one was an interesting one. So the 67 class was so outdated by this time it looked like season 1 of Star Trek. Fancy that. So the "research department" wasn't around, mainly because after the fog years loyboy pretty much fired every single last person in the department. Then good buddy Wayne started hanging around a bit, he was the family corpse coordinator. He actually went to class in college unlike football athletes. This was around the time loyboy is writing his Acts book - the one never mentioned again. Loyboy is actually probably studying scripture during this time and exchanging notes with Wayne. They basically took PFAL and re-worked the outline of the class. This was probably heavily Rozilla involved as she can micromanage a teaching plan like nobody's business. Then Loy taught it on stage at the auditorium - they re-worked it all and bought broadcast quality cameras. At the end they paraded him around and gave him a smoking jacket that was reminiscent of Hugh Hefner. He sent us all a picture from the Bahamas while we were taking 10% pay cuts. WAP 1.5 - so WAP really was never destined to last. Too much anger towards the gays. Too much subtext going on with loyboy losing his wife to Rozilla. The lawsuits. The power grab. The exile. So in the gap, when in doubt, what do you do? Make the corpse do the work. The lesson plan must go on. So the corpse had to teach out of the red syllabus. They freak out. People are doing like 10 hours of prep for every hour of teaching, trying to master the material in a short period of time. So guidance is given to spend one hour in prep for one hour of teaching. So classes turn into a read-the-syllabus-a-thon, and sound a lot like the STS. People sit there with mind-numbingly bored looks on their face. Corpse interjected personal stories to alleviate their pain. But oh no, this cannot be. It must be franchised to be controlled. Thus WAP 2.0 - the upgrade. Teachers without sordid sexual pasts. Use of broadcast cameras. And a video review by one of the Stepford wives at the beginning of each segment. Ladies and gentlemen we have an advancement in animatronics. A real live person that sounds like a robot you would listen to at Disney. The rest of the class is just kind of ... meh. Trying too hard for a metaphor - like chocolicious Rupp. But hey - now with a lesson plan and broadcast cameras they can rule the world. All by re-working a set of materials gathered by a plagiarist. Now they can do things like coming down on corpse for not plugging enough brain dead recipients in to their DVD player, making people do Jehovah's witnessing type neighborhood canvassing, etc. etc. while they sit back and enjoy the money and the fame. Except for that the class is based on re-worked, re-regurgitated research work picked through from old materials. So it doesn't spread like wildfire. In fact, this approach drops followers off so fast that they now no longer need to run an Advanced class every year. So to me the Way is looking more and more like Jehovah's Witnesses all the time. Comic book level materials from the ruling class along with a heavy-handed approach mandating sales quotas from oppressed followers. But hey, they are "staying faithful to their commitment to the Word", right? Keep taking that blue pill, and keep staying a slave.

yes I do remember this. it makes me release a little vomit in my own mouth.

oh dear lord baby jesus on a pogo stick.... so how does bringing new folks into the fold work? do they take WAP first? same ole bs. love bombing, pressure grads to come up with relatives friends work associates, same ole witnessing tactics dating etc. do they take WAP first? no WAP first, WAP was replaced by first remove athlete of the dooface harem name and make corpse teach from same syllabus, then keep syllabus and have more yes-men teach more segments so if one left they could replace them easier. They did that with INT and ADV classes too. This is WAP 2. Then the whole cycle starts over again with "new grads" being all the same old grads but a new class. Just like Scientology where they would redo a section of LRH teachings and make everyone re-buy. passing baton indicates a race. this is more like wizard of oz where ugly troll behind mask dictates things. troops are kept in line by Nazi Germany like tactics - threat of shunning, but lying about it. defame those that speak up, excited about 'the word' ????????? yes the scientology-like excitement just oozes out of every pore of this group. I mean you see the video ridiculed on the Soup, right? that was exciting.

waysider, now you know the Way would never re$ort to looking at thing$ from a financial per$pective. And Ro$alie would never per$onally do $omething like per$onally call a large contributor or anything like that. kind of more like in addition to being a $ale$ rep, you paid for the privilege to attend by being on the cla$$ crew.... can you $ay $$$$$lave labor? money for nothing and being $creamed at by d1cks for free.

well the first step was now to require all the PLAF grads to take WAP so they were the first classes. then their kids. if you string that out long enough eventually maybe a new person or two would show up. I recall the manifestation part in WAP was in a private group not in a bedlam in front of class. as to your question, in the Way, $h1t always flowed downhill. so it could be the leader's fault, or it could be the sheeple's fault for not 'undershepherding' well enough. or the weak link in the chain somewhere, wherever a sycophant wanted to target. as far as pressure to run classes there was always that, and varying standards for what you needed.

Hmmmmmmmmm...... From the perspective of taking PFAL, running PFAL, taking WAP, running WAP, teaching WAP, taking WAP 2, running WAP 2, my feedback is...... Mostly different layers of whitewash, same snowstorm. LCM was all about Michaelangelo's work on Creation - with the snake in female form. Methinks personification. WAP 2 is about damage control. More teachers, more replaceable segments, same BS. Removed sections about homophobia. Same basic syllabus as WAP. Stepford Wives intros to sessions. This also reinforces idea of replaceability for dissenters.

Yes as many have noticed extreme behavior whenever anything approaches exposing sinful practices in her life - that's when the followers hit the road, people are dropped and bum rushed out of HQ, demoted etc I believe the Bible describes this phenomenon as a "conscience seared with a hot iron". Although to fool her followers and throw people off the scent she will label those of us here at Greasespot Cafe with that term who refuse to whitewash over evil.

Bob S used to be more like the S in Seger. Like Eminem - Michael M@rtin - from Chi-town Northern IL area bands old Acts 29 days. The Way has surgically removed their test@cles. So with Bilbo being added to the BOD, bringing in the element of pr0n, does that mean now that the theme of the Way Board of Directors is morphing into gay pr0n? That would explain the evolution of the musical sound from the 70's LOL

https://www.amazon.com/Undertow-Escape-Fundamentalism-Control-International/dp/0997874708/ref=sr_1_1

True dat. Claudettee went more the secretary way than the singer way over the years. Yard Dog kind of doesn't encapsulate the modern version. Modern version would be more Porch Dog. Remade in image of Billy Greene.

So, next question. If this earth-shattering performance was a medley of Way songs from older to newer, did it, like Way Prod, grow increasingly suckish as the night progressed? Or did they like mix them in together for maximum brainwash effect? Like "I Am a Leaf on a Mighty Tree" with "The Renewed Mind is the Key" ?????

I think the Eyes have it voting on this thread.

I'm thinking "Chaff is Cool" sounds like a Ramones song.... Chaff is Cool Rock n Roll High School

Yes region coordinators in south for years. Son Ch@ndl3r got a Pharmacy degree (8 yrs college doctorate) then they pulled a Donnie Wierwille act and pulled him in to be the Way Corps director after the vacancy opened up when R1co got himself escorted off the property. Gots to have family money to pay for a PharmD cash no student loans. Kind of a waste but hey on the positive side he could always ensure the Way Corpse is properly medicated so they can continue to believe their boooooolllllsssshheeeeeeeettttttt.

It is mind bottling. How to win in this life. Let's examine track records....