chockfull

I can. You become lighter.

Hey 'Spotters. What up? Oh the drama. Were we really told to read the epistles for the next 3 months? Or were we told the collaterals too? Oh the hairs to split. Perhaps there are some who were so astute that they got the meaning of the Blue book entitled "The Bible Tells Me So" and just went on to read only the Bible rather than the blue book. Not I. I was questioned profusely as to my mastery of the collaterals by my Limb Coordinator prior to being approved to take the Advanced PLAF class as a little leaflet on a mighty paper mache tree. Was this further reinforced in the Corpse? Why yes. If you don't have an educational curriculum, make one up. Make the Corpse retake the classes in mind numbing slowness. Review it 4 hrs a day in study hall. So when these Corpse got onto the field and ran practically all of the classes in the ministry they definitely were interpreting VP to be speaking in a broader sense to include a review of the collaterals. There were planned teaching times into the yearly calendar to cover them also. I remember this one asssistant Corpse coord that would try to answer every question he had posed to him out of the collaterals. Fun times there. Now time to get out of here before there is more collateral damage. Get it?

Stage 3 of the brainwashing process is to remove memory of steps 1 and 2 from the brain. OK. Now that was in jest.

Legitimacy was never a primary concern of the Way. They just redefine things according to their own terms and thinking and move ahead. To achieve Way enlightenment, the follower will put aside all other reading materials and focus solely on the plagiarized works of VP Wierwille. After 3 months, they won't know themself. Why? Because stage 1 of the brainwashing process has been completed.

Ah yes, the '80s. - Athletes of the Spirit - (aka original Men in Tights) - The Camaro - The Femullet - (female mullet) - Disco is fading to Hair Bands - (hence the style confusion in Athletes) - the VHS vs. Beta tape war - http://www.liketotally80s.com/ It was a day. It was a time. It was an era. I'm glad I don't have to go back, and am praying if aliens land on Earth, the time capsule they find is not from then.

For me my cognitive dissonance led me towards honestly looking at the fruit of people's lives including my own. Many professing Christians need plenty of work on just being a human being that cares about something other than their own fat face and ego. To me the cognitive dissonance is the constant pull of the pure science versus the applied science. Like pure science, religion to me inspires in its proper context. Like applied science, carrying that inspiration out into the real world requires a great deal of toil, is imperfect and frustrating.

You mean like Victor Paul Wierwille faked speaking in tongues on stage at an Oral Roberts convention in front of thousands? Prior to his JE Stiles encounter? As recorded in Elena Whiteside's book?

So if we get to the place where we decide atheism IS a religion, then do we also have to go down the road of deciding whether it is an ORGANIZED religion or not? aka Dana Carvey's routine - "la, la, la ..... disorganized"? Many Christians will spout off a condescending view like "religion is man-made, Christianity is God-made". I've heard that one before. I mean I do believe the crux of Christianity is a personal relationship with your Savior, as opposed to becoming intimate with Greek, Hebrew, and politics, and that a bunch of smug b@st@rds make a money making scheme for themselves off of Christianity. But that quoted phrase itself carries judgment and condescension, which kind of shows the Christian with that viewpoint to have an innate value system where they see their own lives' value and that of their friends as on a different level than the rest of mankind. That is a dangerous, prideful viewpoint. And it is not Christ's viewpoint. Atheism could just be a rational objection to @$$h0l3s, in one sense. It could be the science versus faith thing. It doesn't have to be - the Jesuits are an organized arm of the Catholics towards that aim. They run colleges. Atheism for those leaving the Way could just be the psyche swinging the balance back the other way, to not accept blindly what people say. To go hard towards the evidence side. That is probably a more healthy overall view than a "Pollyanna believing" outlook without accountability or action. i was thinking about it, and I don't want to pigeonhole atheism into any one label, telling someone how they feel about their own life and thoughts. That's dumb. So I guess it could be a religion. Or it could be a reaction to a religion. Or it could just be a viewpoint and nothing else. If the rationality and logic are inspiring to a soul, more power to you.

Maybe he resurrected into his new body, passing through all the cloth, then decided to wipe his brow with the face cloth, fold it, and place it aside. Because he could. Maybe as he resurrected there was a magic God dust that folded the napkin all on its own and placed it gently. Maybe there was a hobo that saw the stone rolled away real early before anyone else, went in, tripped over the face cloth, said "oh, sh1t", and folded it up and placed it aside before running away scared. I guess I'm not a fundamentalist any more LOL.

LOL. I remember that type of exchange. I always had an inner voice going on. Kind of like: Them: "Sounds like you have an opportunity. You know we don't call them problems around here because that's negative believing. Instead, we call them opportunities to believe God". Me: "Yes, that's true". Also Me (inner voice): "No, @$$h0l3, now I have 2 problems. One is my original problem. The other one is not punching you in your large bezookus right now."

I'm sure you were better off in the long run. With only a guilt complex, you avoided all the other complexes developed in the 2nd year in residence and subsequent assignments. Trust me. Later on, over 95% of the Corpse also developed a guilt complex (I did) when leaving what was billed to be a lifetime of Christian service. Many who went back and remained developed a "god complex", as evidenced by current Way leadership. At least low self esteem is treatable. Welcome to the 'Spot. Cup o joe and a slice of pie bro!!!!

I say red drapes. The Way gave me rose colored glasses.

I remember that Tom Burke tape entitled "Many Ways" - it was all entirely confrontational / parody with respect to the Way hot buttons. Early to mid '80s? The title track "Many Ways" was making fun of the "there are many ways to get to heaven" line of thinking at the time which was much more collaborative as opposed to separatist and fundamentalist. This was part of an overall strategy of "picking a fight" with organized religion over controversial topics so the Way could introduce their rhetoric in and win people from mainstream Christian denominations. No I don't have a copy nostalgia seekers. What were topics? 1. Homosexuality - made fun of that was redneck and narrow minded even for the '80s and is totally tone deaf now 2. Trinity - if you needed a song to alienate any potential Christian supporters but not followers, this would be the one 3. Commonality of Religion - instead of focusing on similarities and building bridges, the Way is continually the street corner drunk picking a fight Can't remember the rest of the tracks though....

Sorry to hear about his health. My personal interactions with the Lynns were not positive, and I don't support the direction he took with what I consider to be successive exploitive splinter groups, but in the least common denominator he is still a member of the body of Christ and a Christian brother. My prayers are with him and family - Pat is long since divorced, so is Elizabeth? second wife, story there is here through all the splinters and Momentus, STFI, dueling mind picture revelations, etc.

It's all good. I see with Mike's last post he feels he has a lot of personal issues in the sex area that he sees is preventing him from making good value judgements about Victor Paul Wierwille. Sorry to hear that. But I don't think I'll continue to emphasize that point beyond pointing out the obvious: 1. One does not "move the Word" with one's penis (or vagina - don't want to leave the ladies out) 2. One does not "move the Word" with other's revelation from God. Or other's work product. That is their revelation and their work. God gave it to them. Not you. Then they put in the work to develop it. So stealing it is still wrong.

I've seen this one circulate in the phrases the Pharisees whisper to each other. "Lost their salt" is now the common accusation against leaders who disagree with RFR in any circumstance. They are whispered about as such at the highest levels, and covered over with silence at levels below that so that lead Pharisees are protected and will never need to put their lilly white tushy on a seat in a courtroom deposition again. Here's another one - "Biblical Research, Teaching, and Fellowship ministry" where the practice is to cast out anyone who does Biblical research other than that originating from what Wierwille plagiarized. one more - this one is a personal pet peeve. "Would you be blessed to .... ?" where the only expected appropriate response is "of course. I always am blessed to serve." That prepositional phrase needs Round-Up sprayed on it.

I don't need to make Elena out to be some self-seeking morally decrepit person. I'm sure she was very similar to many others of her time - sweet young hippie chick with stars in her eyes and altruistic goals. Dreams of journalism. She was taken by a pervy old con man. So were we all. But that drunken tale to impress her certainly did have some hang time!!!!!!

I owned it and read it because it contained information about the history of the group I was in that wasn't available elsewhere. Like a good Wayfer I bought the materials and read them that were in the bookstore. The "snow on the gas pumps" story was verbal legend in the Corps anyway. RFR was and is completely fine with the verbal legend as long as the sketchiness of the publication doesn't have to be addressed.

No that makes a lot more sense specific to the narrative. The inspiring part is the collaboration actually. It was not the one "lead apostle" or whatever, who got zapped with a lightning bolt, then he / she / it started "putting together a plan" for the distribution of the gift. It was all of them working together. The problem "needed to be 12" delves into what, governmental perfection? The same number as a jury for a trial? Yes the fulfilling of the prophecy of Psalms from Acts 1:20 also referenced. But the emphasis for teamwork here is what gets me out of "scribe city" currently LOL. On a deep front. Thx bro.

I once did a research project on the topic of "debt" using the sources of Uncle Harry Wierwille's book and Ermal Owens book. It was both highly enlightening and entertaining. I mean not the books. Yes, they definitely sucked. But looking at those hypocrites records through the ages? Much more entertaining.

Sure bro - bless you too! In the Acts 2:1-4 narrative I wasn't 100% one way or the other on whether the "ands" are just a loose collective, tying the individual portions of the event together, or whether they had some "tighter" form of connection indicating order or sequence. I was kind of leaning towards the loose collective but again not 100% one way. Any thoughts? Sometimes I get to a point where i think more investigation would produce a "poof" it disappears, and I am in scribe city. On the other side, sometimes the intricate details can be inspiring.

Thomas all views are welcome sometimes views are more similar than you think but labels are divisive. I have far from reached my destination in Christology in view or practice. Thx for the references.

And I totally agree that the "ands" in Acts 2:1-4 consist of statements in a narrative event, which tie all of the individual clauses together to the same event.

Placeholder for any continuation of the plagiarism thread that started in "About the Way" and people wanted to move to here as a place for Mike to continue to present his viewpoint of PFAL being God-breathed and plagiarism being justified.

To me the verses seem to sound and flow differently in Acts 2:1-4 than Acts 2:41-46. In Acts 2:1-4 it seems like it is a narrative flow, like a 3 year old tells you a story "and we went to the park, and we sat on the swing, and I saw a dog, and we ate ice cream". Did all of those things necessarily happen in that order? maybe, maybe not. But they all happened with the 3 year old probably. In Acts 2:41-46 it seems to be more in a summary type statement, where the "ands" seem to be building in concept rather than in a narrative of an event. To me the flaw of Wierwilist fundamentalist logic breaks down when you impose some kind of human made rule saying that the "ands" in Acts 2:1-4 HAVE TO BE THE SAME as the "ands" in Acts 2:41-46. OH RLLLLLLLLLLLLY. Why? Oh, because they are the same Greek word for "and", which we all marked every single one of from Bullinger before the Advanced class. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" Ralph Waldo Emerson