chockfull

Engine interesting perspective cool thx for sharing. The permeating flaws makes sense. I don’t buy that he “fell” into taping piffle. He spent a fair amount of time and one trip getting a remote doctorate degree that specialized in homiletics and the art of influencing people through speech. Then he refined that in a rebel theologian image to appeal to hippies because the Ohio farmers were semi interested in his stolen classes but returned to their churches. Then he made a power play on both coasts to usurp local ministers and their followings. It was a planned initiative. WOW right?

Nice I like the body language guy. Very good on lie detection. There is a series called Lie To Me I think still on Netflix that digs into micro expressions like this guy. It is a real science. You can't hide your face from expressing it is built in lol.

Took a look around it looks interesting. The intro clip lists greed, lack of empathy, and loose morals as common motivators for con artists. I may get a subscription to look into it further, as I see similarities between con artists that span the medium they use - real estate scams or selling cult indoctrination with a lifetime of income potential.

What makes me think you have time is that you brought up all the points he is addressing. Now that you are being called out to answer each point instead of discipline and mental control you display laziness and attacking others. Congrats, you are more like your “father in the Word” than you realize.

Now we see HOW VPWs Word fits with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision. and a shoehorn and ethics insurance

Yes sky we withdrew our consent to manipulation when we exited the organization. I connect with so much of what you are describing. That cult is very dependent upon a silent group of people to carry out orders unquestioning. Pawns in the game of chess. This is why upon scrutiny I use the word cult. Because despite the fundamentalist home Christian label on the outside, what is on the inside the activity or how the organization interacts with it's leaders ranks more resembles Scientology than it does a Lutheran synod.

Hmmm sometimes when I come across math problems that are unclear to me they look remarkably similar to other math problems which are also unclear to me. Does this mean I have recovered from the keys to the maths interpretation?

Yes I do believe Twinky has the right angle

Oh my friend you have been cruelly deprived of a tremendously insightful body of work called The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. You must remedy this immediately Spotters don't forget your towels !

T bone whatever the reason for your writing style I actually like it. Your break down above helps introduce the current common Christian logic and thinking regarding the problematic fundamentalist interpretation we were taught and accepted as truth regarding the origin of scripture. Conspiracy theory and extremist viewpoints are where Wierwilles logic in scripture interpretation leads. We have taken the time to debunk many of those extremist views on this site. Look Christianity actually involves other Christians in other organizations who are not following a denominational head that is born of the seed of the serpent like Wierwille taught in his Advanced class. And the body of Christ is not the Way. Neither is the household of God like they teach that is cult control language and manipulation by scripture interpretation

Actually the current Way leadership has an easy way to deal with the PFAL topic they whitewash or and wrap it into a non published history book about the ministry. Then they declare themselves as having the only true version of the present truth and don't allow in older waves of followers who ask too many questions. Like Mike for instance. So how have the BOD returned to PFAL? Because they have time and time again rather than developing a new class based upon something else. First the video was getting noticeably outdated and they were losing people. So ego boy Martindale are taught it with all the pomp and circumstance of Hugh Hefner on the red carpet with velvet jacket and all. What are his credentials? A psych bachelors degree and a second string college athlete stories. No research except he and Clapp. Next when Martindale torpedoed and was usurped by Rivenbark, first the Corps taught the same Martindale class live, then they video it with Rupp lomgley and DeLisle. After Longley left due to the dichotomy of teaching a research class with no research department they replaced him. So the current BOD has returned to PFAL with a new Frankenstein version. Taught by tools with seared consciences. I'm sure that approach will save the world. Just run on the rails that brought you there lol.

Traveling salesman shifting assignments upon a whim, the agreement of a couple in a back room somewhere far away from any rational scrutiny or common knowledge or voting system like the RnR folks who were marked and avoided suggested. Most of the areas I was in had common characteristics. There were good hearted Christian souls. But pretty much it seemed like about half of the people 50% or so to me were those who had previously been through the Way Corps training, were now Inactive and unhappy. They would target active ones and look for any opportunity to complain or not work with them. Not much possible to do in those situations. That is all fallout due to shifting standards for what they called Way Corps, irrational acts by megalomaniac leaders - I mean the damn most ridiculously stupid thing was reason for many of these people to be dropped from Corps with all of the stigma and bad feelings attached. So a largely unhappy group even of the ones that still are there. And many hanging on to nostalgia for good old days. I just have to say reflecting my choice led me into the Way and God knew my heart and led me out of the Way in His time. And He sees my heart and commitment to Him not some fake damn cult.

Yes probably. At an rate why do I care how many followers the Way has? I don’t hopefully God has a warning sign for them. I think those numbers would not be even in the top 1000 churches in the USA little less worldwide which they claim to be. Carry on tiny dancers.

There's my second wave of PFAL. Goodbye PFAL. Goodbye imitation replacement PFAL. Goodbye imitation replacement cult leaders. That is the only wave a rational person is going to make

It was worse than that. We worked secular jobs that we couldn't focus on to earn money to pay for rent for a large enough home to hold church meetings in. Then on top of that we sent in tithes and offerings from those earnings. All so we could have the privilege to work a fulltime non paid job doing all the leg work so jackasses in high towers can act important and make policy. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why 95% of their leadership training graduates have fled for more rational endeavors.

Sky it’s funny I was thinking about this and our training. We were trained product salesmen, no different than traveling around hucking vacuum cleaners or encyclopedias. The parts of our training that helped instill any kind of discipline in me I am thankful for. Of course the overall arching idea of being groomed as a pawn for a selfish hedonists pleasures is the part that is the most difficult to acknowledge for many, some would prefer a seared conscience and false narrative. That part makes me sick. I can actually look at most genuine acts I had during that period as a minister to be outside that framework and pattern rather than perpetuating it.

It is interesting discussing PFAL how research as a topic comes up. Regarding research and the Way I absolutely have to recommend Charlene Edges book Undertow: My Escape From the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International as fundamental to understanding how VPW and research worked in the history of the Way. True research involves evaluating commentary to get an idea of thought patterns in modern Christianity and evaluating ancient artifacts called critical textualism. Posts like T Bones touch on these areas. The Way has a different idea of research, based on laziness and claiming revelation. They have also abandoned research and dissolved the research department. A president claimed research was not necessary as they already have the present truth, I guess referring to VPWs revelation TBone talks about. As Jesus taught, you know people by their fruit, not external facade.

It is interesting discussing PFAL how research as a topic comes up. Regarding research and the Way I absolutely have to recommend Charlene Edges book Undertow: My Escape From the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International as fundamental to understanding how VPW and research worked in the history of the Way. True research involves evaluating commentary to get an idea of thought patterns in modern Christianity and evaluating ancient artifacts called critical textualism. Posts like T Bones touch on these areas. The Way has a different idea of research, based on laziness and claiming revelation. They have also abandoned research and dissolved the research department. A president claimed research was not necessary as they already have the present truth, I guess referring to VPWs revelation TBone talks about. As Jesus taught, you know people by their fruit, not external facade.

No more of the adv class categorization of the devil spirit and teaching from the Bible on it. I wonder if the name in the Bible is a copy from other writings it seems out of place as a name.

One interesting point to me on the 12 step and alcoholism. The name Leviathan seems to me like it might be a carryover from other stories. There are older poems like the Epic of Gilgamesh that were retold a lot and sung by bards. these were the days well before Zuckerbergs meta verse lol. Fundamentalism assumes a lot. Like some meaning to a name.

I agree Twinky. Currently the way subscriptions to their music on YouTube is 4.7k. I don’t see anyone other than followers subscribing to that particular brand of vanilla High Country type productions with women in demure costume and men with the clean look. so each director represents influence over a thousand. too many.

It’s a cool show. I guess a little tangential but ok. I see Way leaders believing in themselves and forcing plastic smiles. #2 thru #9 they ignore.

Sky thank you and the community here for excellent content. Not mine of course, but I’m tolerated lol. Yes 100% we are telling the truth and standing firm on truth values and dignity. We have nothing to be ashamed of. They should be ashamed, but they are not. I do not see any godly repentance over the putrid fruit in their lives including impact on others lives. When God knows an individual will never give up their personal power for truth, that person is described as having a conscience seared with a hot iron. The top leaders at the way were trained up in the way of the Pharisee. They function in the way of the Pharisee. They gave up 2 decades of their life performing in the way of the Pharisee. They are not going to magically transform into anything else other than Pharisees. Among their peers there is rite of passage unwritten rules formed by the outcomes of power struggles and excommunication. This is the unwritten law that rules the cult. The Bible is secondary or tertiary at best.

Twinky phenomenal post highlighting the potential spiritual power in the 12 steps and the alignment to scripture and all of the delivering content in avoiding addiction. Of course these programs being man made are flawed exploited and twisted like any other truth based lists. People sure love lists that is for sure lol. Numerology and addiction recovery. Who knew the correlation?

Since our isolated friends seem a bit disconnected from the world, struggling with the strategy and morality to continue on giving their lives to perpetuate an organization founded upon plagiarism and adultery, I thought a recent series might help them out to develop a few missing principles.