chockfull

Nice TBone and WW great breakdown on the twisting of even the most basic of scriptures, which have parallels in writings in other religions. ”You can do as you fool well please” sounds like VPWs mission statement. He also provided mission statements for others- WOW - to be measured by how many classes they ran. These measurements exist well beyond any updates on classes and they don’t change. Each branch will strive to run a class every … And constant communication regarding status on that sales goal. None of that bears any resemblance to Jesus teachings of love God and love your neighbor.

T-bone thx for the linked article and excepts - great stuff! When I think of my story and my wife and many I know they have parallels to this above paragraph. The Way sold me the idea of a more dedicated Christian, more knowledgeable of scripture, more effective in my walk. Snake oil vial #1 they are not any of those they twist scripture as we accurately document on this site to appear so and honestly many pastors are lazy in the Christian community do not protect their flock from this kind of infiltration. So first they set themselves up as my spiritual trusted authority. Next they exerted control over all areas of my life I allowed them access, which was pretty much everywhere from finances to dating to work to time spent. They broke down natural boundaries in topics and areas that need to remain individual decisions and logic. So I accepted them as authority in so many other categories of life they did not belong in. Next because I joined Way Corps I gave them my authority over many more categories of life and development including education, residence, and my career. In each of those categories specifically they very effectively demonstrated they could care less about me as a person beyond how I could further their selfish self promoting ends. During this process instead of building the family unit, it eroded the same. I was disconnected from my earthly family and built a false one that had no boundaries from whatever Way leader was in charge at the time, to fulfill their personal whims. It wasn’t until my exit that I had the time for my family once off the Way hamster wheel of WOW or whatever replacement control phrase they have circulating now. The recovery process for me post Way has involved taking back control over each area of my life that I had relinquished control to the Way. It has been a slow arduous process but one I feel is true and honest before God and I have seen benefits in my Christian walk. I am no longer exhibiting characteristics of scribes and Pharisees such as I see so evident in my Christian brethren who remain. I am happier being free but it is much more work. The work intended by God.

Soooo - what if the compulsion to belonging stems from a form of Stockholm syndrome?

Sounds like an underlying organizational fundamental principle of ruling by fear reading through that. And of course experientially that IS what it was. Funny how a habitual practice excoriating your best people leads to 95% of those same people rejecting your organization over time.

Can’t find it in the Bible. Might find it in the DSM manual under obsessive compulsive disorder categories. This is different than saying the rosary how exactly?

Or They are another way to control followers. Compellor sessions where you will speak into being upon command messages that make everyone feel better commanded by the leader. Joe - SIT and interpret - says the Corpse leader Joe - under intense pressure - lo shanta ke malakasita lo shanta - you are Gods awesome people. Sits down whew Language and process of control. Many Christian groups do those gifts or manifestation types of things in an open prayer format in a prayer group for example. As opposed to a mandated part of each fellowship and micromanaged in Way fashion.

I would say the class series does one thing very well. It brainwashes the students to the point they will not trust another Christian organization or group of people as authentic genuine and accurate or worth collaborating with on anything. How? By first pillaging Bullingers material to present all the Word interprets itself BS. Notice the indirection there to avoid responsibility for a translation. At the same time we are introduced to literal translations according to usage. Commentaries that aren’t commentaries made by infallible men. No these were God breathed translations from Himself beyond any questioning. Natural knowledge is reasoned spiritual knowledge is “ascertained”. Language of elevation of status or position that is followed by language of control. The subtle language and concepts introduced by the class don’t produce the claims of the class about prosperity, harmony, etc. but they do introduce mental footholds of control. VP said if you can’t trust them about how many were crucified with Jesus how can you trust them about the greater truths of eternal life? NO. I can’t trust VP due to the fruit of his life, which Jesus instructed me to use as a ruler. I can’t trust the Way because they have never got to that point regarding the founder. Instead they double down whitewash and run with the people in power.

Totally lol! We too can develop this kind of in-depth spiritual perception and awareness all we need is the 1942 promise and a daily diet of regurgitated PLAF. Because it's the new protein

Get a life JT I might as well say it you know they are saying it in cult boardrooms across America. j/k thx for the content over years. I leave and cycle back over years. It’s part of my life and recovery. And scriptures say we are body of Christ so this is every bit of a church as the Way is.

So in the land of coconut monkeys it seems the latest trend is exegetical teachings of whole sections of scripture. A little like Calvary Chapel does except more opinionated. I saw LCM doing it as well as the coconut monkey leaders. Who knows maybe the next decade will bring us more literal translations according to abusage. Lol. And the only thing heavy in Ohio cornfields is cow

It's funny. The closer you inspect every element of VPW life and purported ministry you see it fall apart at the detail level. The collaterals. To me it is ever more evident that those collateral books to PFAL were basically Rhoda W copying down various portions of teachings then decades of them being edited for consistency. They are so bad and so disjunct The leaders of the Way have been well aware of the sham for decades and are complicit in the cover up for their own personal gain.

Twinky this is why I think the Way is anti Christ. VPs teachings in their least common denominator denigrate our Lord and Savior. And make shipwreck the family faith.

Yes WW you have the underlying truth right there. PFAL was filmed to accomplish those exact goals. Build a maverick Jesus and a corrupt system full of seed of the serpent men as a cause to trick young naive Christians into following. Then build VP as “the teacher” a substitute for the maverick Jesus. Build an empire off of “the teacher” and ride off into the sunset.

This is a very insightful response. It indicates that pure looking into scriptures without the distorted goggles of PFAL leaves someone flat and empty. Next comes an ad hominem attack laced with ego really communicating a persons self vision is a real expert in scripture. I would exhort all to discard your distorted goggles from PFAL they have detrimental effects. VPW made up the same personification I’m talking about with all scripture interprets itself. That whole statement is a personification. Very telling how personification in scripture leaves you flat and empty but personification of a fictional idea by a snake oil salesman really flips your switches.

Yeah I recollect the WAP class being rolled out with the likes of a parade, a Hugh Hefner replica smoking jacket, and a trip to the Bahamas while the staff was on a 10% pay cut from a needs basis. Anything would be an improvement there

I Cor 3:17 God chose the figure of speech personification in an extended allegory here. OT times people had a building associated with worship. The new gospel of Jesus Christ has the collective group as personifying worship of God. When Christians gather it is something God loves, it is kind of like He is saying enjoy each other that’s the worship I want. Not all the Towers of Babel man constructs.

We don’t have official info on salaries of top figures. We do have a couple incidents where someone saw a spreadsheet of salaries on a cabinet members computer. The nepotism factor doesn’t only extend to money. How many dozens of people jump to fulfill rfr every desire? People wash their cars clean their houses treat them like emporers. And they grow to expect it acting like removed Pharisees. I do know that the field staff that work for the way are paid one teachers salary for two full time workers. And other indicators. Some of the cabinet folks are known purchasing houses for cash for example. Not the ones with inheritance family money either. But this is one more thing they hide. Honest organizations are transparent. Many many nonprofits open their books including salaries the Way hides them. One more reason not to trust them until an auditor is involved. When they are involved how much of the Ways standard operating procedure’s have to be changed?

So to me this sounds like you are missing most of the point of Guerdjeff. His incompleteness theorems contradict most of the above paragraphs. And this is the underlying math logic you are referring to. I would suggest a deeper review of what you are using as tools to arrive at your conclusion

The fruit of both of those mens lives is to draw people away from the true body of Christ with twisted doctrine to the point where people exposed seldom ever unite with other Christians. This is practical and doctrinal error in Corinthians. God does not produce miracles that have the fruit of the Way International. The fruit there belongs to the delusional dictators at the top starting with King Con.

Yes I too would prefer a troll free thread so Mike please keep your commentary to the other one as many are not wanting to muck up all the threads on the forum with your viewpoints.

Mike if you are wrong about this, and multiple brothers and sisters in Christ are telling you that you are misled, then it is you that will review each one of those explanations again at the bema in front of our Lord and it is you that will experience the shame. Rather than painting a picture of our future shame with your deluded ego and refusal to listen to brothers and sisters speaking the truth in love, why don’t you write an expanded paragraph about what your shame is going to look like and whether you will be able to handle it? Right now you are a pawn troll. God did not visit VP in a snowstorm just like He did not dictate the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith. But both of those men share similar narcissistic traits that are also a warning to any with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Duuuuuuude, we are Judas for telling the truth about our experiences and not accepting the faked miracle in the way living in love? You know rfr purged that book from the bookstore a long time ago? They don’t believe it either. For me personally it was looking side by side at the RHST book and JE Stiles book with my own two God given eyes. VP said he spent a period of time checked into a hotel going over the 300 plus verses about the Holy Spirit slash lower case in the forward. Evidence shows those 10 days were spent copying Stiles book almost word for word over 70 percent. But each person has to determine for themselves.

T bone lmfao you always deliver. With the Way since the content hasn’t changed in decades it is not about it is written it is about it is position. Nepotism replaced leadership. The abundance and power is certainly in those top president cabinet positions that pay out six figures. Not in the teachers salary field positions that are the masses that push classes. I wonder if the Way is still as transparent about that as when Howard Allen would open up the ministry books to any advanced class grad. Can AC grads obtain personnel info like salaries?

No need to go into Godel numbering. A basic discussion of incompleteness theorems would suffice. This is way more than remotely connected.

So basic recon there is a free Way mag published with details on the new class in it. It is taught by one of Donna’s sisters and the children of a few bod and cabinet and another guy. They worked in the framework of the original class. This class will be taught in Gunnison in October. Since it just finished there will be rollout this year presumably. Basically from what I can see the framework of the Way is pretty much the same. It looks like programs and such keep incrementing and behaviors and positions are the same. Placements every year next week this year. The gears keep turning, the people keep donating, they appoint country leaders and the machine rolls on. I’m glad I’m out of it. It’s a machine with hamster wheels that produces hot air. Building someone’s life on PFAL today is no less a foundation of sand than the original. The doctrinal issues of the Way keep it out of mainstream Christianity away from non Wierwillian influences outside a closed system. The internal politics ensure abundance for the elite, not the masses who push classes. The children of the elite have the football now. So there is a young whitewashed image. So whether it’s an old wineskin or not doesn’t matter to the machine or anyone who gets caught up in it. I think at the bema I would rather be with the body than with an elitist cult portion of it. PLAF-T will have its people it draws in. The machine Wierwille built will continue producing widgets - Christian publications and classes to help sell its home fellowship structure. The hierarchy will continue. So will the Mormons and JWs they also have a built infrastructure. Denominations are changing. So is local church Christianity to meet the local need. I don’t think the doctrines which VP used to divide off from the main body of Christ are anything but delusion they lead to generations of isolation not a functioning body of Christ.