chockfull

Let’s review your post. 14 year old hitchhikers. “Overflowing” with the Word. A Beatles song with the word “love”. Giggling. This is 100 percent cringe. There is no thinking evil involved, just responding to your provocative description of 14 year olds. I mean who lets 14 year old girls hitchhike anyway? I certainly wouldn’t let my daughter do anything like that at that age. I am really starting to doubt any story you tell as being real. There are just way too many flags. I’m just starting to get a real Vic vibe off of you.

So you were mostly attracted to underage female hippies spouting free love? Totally common in how people started in TWI. Chasing attraction. If they were 18 and WOW that’s one thing. But 14 is Jeffrey Epstein territory as well as Joseph Smiths youngest poly wife. Not gonna lie that is more than a little bit cringe. It is seeming to me like you are clinging to a feeling that included young female attention and a Grateful Dead type environment. And you latched on a simpleton pattern of censorship to go along with it. Hot Free Love and PFAL You are definitely VPs “son” in da verd.

So this is ridiculous. You have yet to get back to her. Please do and let us know. She has moved on from TWI so long before your 24 year brain washing it’s not funny. I would LOVE to hear her current opinion on the collaterals. While you are at it, interview the rest of VPs kids and grandkids who are still alive. Some of VPs last teachings included how the Wierwille family was the legacy of the ministry. But all of them left. How do you know what VPs main job was? Are you God? Did you read his mind? Or are you projecting “your” idea onto him? Have you got to the part in penworks book yet about “all the people” who worked on VPs books, did the most work, then were fired without attribution in the work or any royalty like a normal author has for original work? I really don’t want to lump all the collaterals together even the studies in abundant living were written in different decades. Then how about Adv Class materials? Are they also collaterals? Like “The Myth of the 6 Million”? CSBP? ADAN? JCNG? How about Craig’s Acts book? Is that a collateral? It built from the accounts in Acts in PFAL, and a VP teaching on “Great Statements” in Acts. We’ve already started to get into “Why Division?” In TNDC. But you didn’t want to talk about it. You just want to focus on the blurry general model because it makes an easier idol than working scriptures and thinking.

Bump for all the lo shanta fans. Some interesting stuff in this thread. Varying views and opinions mostly, except for one that has persistently censored for > 2 decades.

Should we help Mike write up a written request to the Vatican tribunal to get the process going to get VP on the road to sainthood? Oh wait he thinks they are born of seed. Maybe he could just do a survey at twig and his mental groups. If they vote yes he could just declare sainthood right there.

How delusional do you have to be to put written class materials as “God breathed” the exact same category as scripture is taught to be? So does the written word of VPW also take the place of the absent Christ? Deeply ponder that why don’t you?

Yeah I see that. So nice to reminisce over how far people have come in the last 5 years. To sum up, Mikey still censors everything potentially negative about VPW and the class and the collaterals. Now there’s a new version of the class in which nothing has changed. Mike in 5 years has not got more open about anything. I can see my own confrontational style challenging logic even back then. And no response for 5 years on it either. Heres a quote from Lifelines for you: “Get comfortable with your ruts you may be in them a long time.” Peace spotters.

If you read “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” and the expanded study on Pharisees there, you actually will come to realize Jesus taught us how to handle spiritual abuse in his time on earth. Pharisees construct inner circles so they don’t have to deal with “non believers”. These inner circles communicate and decision make in NOTHING BUT “tvts”. I would agree that written publications don’t have the hidden behind closed doors messages. But as I’m looking at common cult practices I see this all through cult dealings. Verbal traditions govern everything. Whether it is the Watchtower society or the Mormon Q12 or President Nelson. TWI cannot help but to function in this way. And 100 percent of this was originated by the founder.

Cool story. Where was this mission deep in the devils territory? Suburbs of UCSD? Man you sound like a Gideon on a mission. But they are a bit ahead of you with the motel Bibles. 1942 promise you said it wasn’t necessary for you to believe that. But here you are weaving it into some kind of history. A couple questions 1. What is a TVT? 2. What happened in mid 1985? How was promise fulfilled?

And they all work together too in this service. The ministries serving by fighting sex trafficking speak in the churches of the others. The money flows between the one church and the org. People are loosely connected and supportive. They are obviously led astray. What is this idea of a Christian body working together? That can’t happen. It allows money to be given to “designer causes” as opposed to the true cause of giving all your money to “the ministry that taught you the Word”. But wait, I thought the Word interprets itself. I guess unless it involves money, then you need “extra special research” to reconcile Malachi in the OT with a different dispensation we live in today. They need to “take the class” and become enlightened as to the earth shattering research in the collaterals. Then give their lives as a doulos to the Way planting little Way trees throughout their life. One of the two groups is off their rocker, that is for sure.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I don’t have the proper tools to make the final judgement on the thickness of a man’s head and heart. Only God Himself knows that. I can do what Christ says though and take a look at the fruit. With VPW there was no moral awakening visible that late. There were no horizontal reparations with relationships and lives he personally had ruined. So the fruit apparently points to a non repentant cult leader. But I don’t know for sure. That’s God. I’d rather give Him the respect and leeway to do His job. And call out the fruit as Christ taught. Because so many are dedicated to hiding it and whitewashing it.

There is joy in serving. As a Christian or any other religion. I have relatives enjoying the joy of serving through a yoga teacher who organizes help groups. People enter careers because they enjoy the service industry. There are unending opportunities to give and serve your fellow human in your own community. There is absolutely joy in service. You know where there is not joy? In buying into a counterfeit service organization and becoming a doulos slave to it for your entire life.

In summary, sell out to my class that I spent my lifetime cobbling together from stolen materials, and then give TWI complete control over your entire life by becoming theirs, but not Christs, doulos bondslave. Maybe it was the apex of his homiletic career. Get more cult followers in less time. He was so good at that he spent far less time on that teaching preparation than he did on trying to figure out if he did anything wrong. And many followed that exact pattern. Look at the history of the Way Corps. That’s what they all did. At least in their younger years until they figured out the pyramid scheme. Then the Way cast them out or they grew disenfranchised and left. Well over 95% of the number that entered. Some say that’s because the adversary tricked them out of giving the last years of their life to the same cult that used up their younger years. Those that say that are in power and enjoying the benefits of their power. They are biased. Also there is a different life for Way elites than for standard followers. How many classes have the top leaders EVER put together or run? How many souls have the ones who set the sales quotas for leaders actually won for Christ themselves? The answer is slim and none.

All 9 all the time. Boy you are a non stop fountain of Way ministry catchphrases that are void of meaning and content. That frankly doesn’t happen anywhere in TWI. All Christians are capable of receiving and acting on revelation from the Holy Spirit that will lead to them suffering persecution and enduring . See Foxes book of martyrs sometime. Also, getting revelation from the Author that pitted him against the reformed church that ordained him didn’t happen to VP. He showed himself to be a brawler and striker publishing a paper criticizing his denominations Mission work overseas. And they were investigating him for disciplinary action due to the reports of an affair with his secretary. He fled and started a ministry ahead of any possible disciplinary council meetings. All of this was way before any controversial books were published. I guess that history is getting written a few posts at a time ….

So we should pray for new Kool Aid snowstorms since the rumored ones gassing up VPW were proven to be a fabrication?

What makes you think these scholarly types are 5 senses as opposed to Christian? The only difference I see is they have real Dr degrees as opposed to a correspondence doctorate in homiletics. They compare through analysis texts which regularly show scribe error leading to doctrinal error. You are hilarious jumping from one scenario where you come off like a researcher then now this where it is “scholars matching wits with the devil.” And how that’s “not fair” lol. Is this ostrich cult research ? Stuck on your 24 year old delusions refusing to look at ANYTHING more recent or modern including logic, facts, discoveries, science, or anything else outside some box you labeled “collaterals” but you won’t even honestly discuss with us or evaluate said “collaterals” So called ministry and their so called collaterals. You have your very own Cargo Collateral Cult

I’ve looked at critical Greek texts over the years and investigated that field to a small extent. If you even spend a cursory amount of time reading about the field you come to quickly learn it is really a specialized field. It has a lot in common with archaeology. There are also the same names that keep showing up as experts in that area. VPW was uneducated in that area as evidenced by numerous comments in different contexts. Here is a basic Wikipedia link on the Greek New Testament NA28. If you read through it all and don’t censor the material it has several pointers to many different areas for investigative study. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novum_Testamentum_Graece

120. “But they aren’t witnessing Christ, they are witnessing ‘The Class’”. Dr John Juedes

It is so good to get this out of your own mouth written where it is visible. I mean every reader here has an idea that you no longer apply critical thinking skills to VPW and PFAL. But to get from your own mouth that it was 24 years ago the last time you applied critical thinking skills to PFAL. That is helpful to document. We see how true it is believe me. I have tried numerous times to engage you in these critical thinking skills, but every single time you evade any points I make for various reasons. First, it was anti idol hate. Then it was too quickly “snapping” to love and hate. Then is was a ridiculous analog / digital analogy. Now you are belittling critical thinking points calling them a “food fight” In reality it is the “ostrich” factor. The “ostrich” has some kind of instinctual response to bury the head in the sand when anything it doesn’t want to look at is around.

Bro on that front I’ve just been trying to listen to Eddie’s advice

Tbone I agree with your logic and assessment of the pseudo Christian cult, TSCM the so called ministry TWI. The verses are right on. Your external footnotes and documentation are complete and accurate and fact checked. In fact the idea of pursuing the elements of “what makes up a cult” as opposed to a genuine Christian organization is what motivated me to investigate the young pastor at City on a Hill church’s series that I started a thread on - Cults S3. I have learned many valuable things from there first setting the background of the difference between cult and authentic, then delving into actual areas of the cult specifically. It has been a very enlightening study for me on human experience and logic and group dynamics. I’ve tried to share some of that as I go with any that have cursory interest. I would conclude saying the whole idea of PFAL we were attracted to is a DIY Christianity as opposed to a spoon fed Christianity. So my exhortation is to go farm to table in your life. Become a gardener. Forge your own path in your own area. Be a part of the body of Christ that’s not a wart on his arse.

Except the young people did NOT form a local extension of the body of Christ. As Dr. John Juedes covers in his evaluation of PFAL, they were not witnessing Christ, they were witnessing “the class”. In a time where I was seeking I too was attracted to people that came off like “serious Christians” who “really took their Bible study seriously”. I decided to “take the class” based upon SIT actually. I had experienced it, but my denomination had little material or teachings on it. The local pastor was less familiar with it and did not practice it in his prayer meetings like they did in my home church. He told me not to take it, that he was concerned they were a cult and would lead me away from Christ. I judged him because he was less knowledgeable on one topic and took the class. Yes I got into a contention over the trinity doctrine as they didn’t accept it. I caved in to the logic in the book, which is faulty. They did as my pastor warned lead me away from Christ. It did consume more than two decades of my life, and much of the good young parts of my life. Now I hope to perform Christian service in the TRUE body of Christ by warning others of the logical traps in cult doctrine and to help study to correct the logic errors that allowed this control over my life for decades. Find YOUR OWN group members of Christian community within the body of Christ. Don’t cave in to laziness and return to the cult vomit logic. Forge your own path and be free.

I can have a civil conversation. It is just that there seems to be boundaries you put around it. Anything negative about VP you refute then later try to claim you don’t idolize him. You have some kind of weird vision about yourself that you are the reincarnation of Luke the physician sent to give an “accurate and loving “ account of TWI history. The current written history of TWI consists of two channels: sanctioned and unsanctioned. Sanctioned - Mrs VPW book which only covers before 1980s. I was around when this was being written and my feedback is it was highly coerced. The Way Living In Love - the ONLY literary record of VPs KoolAid snowstorm story which was fact checked to be false by multiple sources. It was removed from sale in the bookstore at some point and can’t be bought there anymore. Unsanctioned - 3 published books Look in T bones footnotes for publishing links All 3 unsanctioned books detail personal stories of negative overall impact in life of TWI. Then there’s you - the only thing you have contributed with your false self vision is a running critical commentary as you are inching your way through one of those books that you previously self censored for years and are now challenged by us to actually read it. Read the whole d@mn book. THEN after YOU are not jumping to conclusions write up thoughts and have a discussion that is semi intelligent.

Merry Xmas spotters! Don’t forget your towel on your journey through the universe. And dolphins are way more intelligent than trolls! Have a great holiday with friends and family. And your peeps.