chockfull

So the authors of the God breathed Bible, unlike VPW, used a bibliography and quotes in their work.

It is good the new “research” department is going over old VPW teachings and putting out booklets. That just brings out the underlying thought and function better. The fundamentalist struggle to force fit square pegs into round holes. I mean at least the title is “Bible Kinds of Believing” as opposed to the red drapes occult mental exercise of the “law of believing” which is more of a Masonic teaching kind of believing or occult teaching. Is it still a cult? Yes. Occult teachings are cultic.

When I think about this topic the Great Principle (GP) and the explanation of it here as being a “help” tool to understand the “spirit” topic in scripture the more it just falls apart with the usage. Looking at accounts like the I Cor section contrasting the “natural man” with the “spiritual man” with the GP we are left with a confusing mess of what is it SIX different usages of “spirit” as defined in RHST? That is enough to confuse the brain and make the whole section choppy and saying something completely opposite of a cursory reading. As opposed to “natural” and “spiritual “ just having a very simple easy to understand context. The GP is just another mental model to keep Bible students doing mental gymnastics while VP slips in cult doctrine ruining believers for the true body of Christ. It would be vastly better for the new believer to never see these stupid charts. Then they won’t be fixated on confusion with the only relief being “ask the Teacher” or now that he’s dead “ask the Teachings”.

T bone I may have mixed up accounts the one I recall was a young girl with a sister who was kicked off the WOW field and the family had to deal with that and the flasher experience. I thought that was Kristins book but I can’t seem to find my copy of it. It could have been excies story…

When I look at I Cor 2 outside the fundy lens what I see is a basic passage of Paul contrasting “natural” thoughts with “spiritual” thoughts. What you dwell on you become. If people have “natural man” prosperity goals, like viewing non Christians being “prosperous” and Christians “not manifesting prosperity” then your entire thought patterns are natural man. Each one win one is a natural goal. There are no spiritual goals that state this in the Bible. The “ministry of reconciliation” is not a hyper ventilating push to “put together a class”. It is the ability to stand in for Jesus Christ and forgive people’s sin on His behalf. The Way basically is taking a package of natural man sales department goals and super imposing them on a Christian ministry. And unlike the tent evangelists who were VPW peers they “lock in” their “non members” via cultish doctrine and logic that isolate the follower from fellow Christians throughout their lifetime. Billy Graham and Oral Robert’s won people to Christ and then partnered with local churches to take care of the increase. Many followers including myself were influenced directly by those men’s ministries and never thought once about joining their organization or sending tithes to them.

There is no such “scriptural formula” my math dude. The upon or within is more of the hocus pocus with Greek prepositions that your fodder in da verd was so good at. Ask God why He described scribes and Pharisees in such detail in scripture? So we could join them in their logic and be pillaged? Or we should avoid the leaven of their doctrine?

Well the Word tells us not to follow those prophets who need ECNs. You are telling us TO follow them. So the Word also tells us not to pay you any attention.

Yes the New Great Principle lol. God who is Spirit talks out of Balaams a$$. Mike who is full of Bullshonta about spirit talks out of his own a$$

There is no law there. It is a false claim. The false Teacher made up false laws like the law of believing which is an occult mind exercise. Yes it was hit harder in the film class. That is because the Publications department functioning as a research department had not yet edited out the inconsistencies. This supposed “law” is easily refuted by a number of accounts in scripture, the first we have discussed in length already being Balaam and his foot.

This is a natural tactic of bullshonta artists everywhere - oh you see it with your “spiritual eyes” that the “natural man” can’t see. Like the Mormon comedian was joking about the Urim and Thummim stones that Joseph Smith was seeing. The problem is that in scripture we heard a great way to distinguish between the true prophet and the bullshonta artist. If their prophecies don’t come true don’t listen to them. For instance the slogan for PLAFT - 1 - “Word Over The World” Then it was announced “the Word IS over the world”. Then the present truth was “The Prevailing Word To The World” And now that that is no longer the case we are apparently back to the Word NOT being over the world again and it is back to “Word Over The World” in PLAFT-4 Look if you are so confused by Kool Aid snowstorms that you can’t figure out whether or not “the Word” is “over the world” then that pretty clearly indicates the prophets in charge of TWI-4 can’t find their butt in the dark blindfolded with both hands. So I’m directed by scripture to ignore your trip down nostalgia lane with “heavy revy” and calling logic natural man scoffing. But hey peace and love. Spread love not war. And enjoy those Grateful Dead albums bro those were the days.

So I have found one of the problems is with an extreme fundamentalist view. Like the need to separate soul and spirit for example. There is nothing tangible in the physical realm to suggest this. But the extreme insistence that words fit exactly mean that it is your mental models that have to do the gymnastics to make it fit. This drove VP to consistently try to prove his point with scripture as opposed to letting it speak for itself even with apparent inconsistencies. I don’t agree with getting your own personal iron man suit (lower case) magically when you speak certain words out of your mouth regarding the Lord and Savior. I think the believing in the heart part is much more than a chant out of a spell book that magically creates “holy spirit” lower case. It is the beginning of a lifelong relationship with a personal Lord which leaders in TWI have long abandoned in favor of patting themselves on the back and telling everyone how they are placing people in the body as God pleases. I see that false body soul spirit doctrine leading to a lifestyle practice of manipulating others and self indulgence through “believing”. Soul and spirit are involved with life. One directs the other to a higher or more virtuous life supposedly. They are inextricably connected. When life leaves they both leave. There is a dual relationship between the two. God works through The Comforter to inspire the person in the soul life to help direct their whole life to a more virtuous path. Self care and taking the time to consider spiritual matters assists with this. You don’t get a baby pet holy spirit animal that you feed with lo shantas nonstop 12 hours a day so you can get spiritually big and strong and ascend your climb on the Way tree path. Christianity - pocket model. Take your pick - VPW statue, orange book, or dashboard Jesus, who the orange book takes the place of because it’s present.

T Bone if my memory serves correct this incident is in Kristin Skedgell’s book Losing The Way

She studied the Bible a lot with VP and had enthusiasm that rubbed off. PFAL as a term came from her as well as the slogan “the word of God is the will of God”. Just another documented origin for class phrases and a rumored affair semi acknowledged by VP.

He never told a story about that. He mentioned a grave sin between them that caused her to leave in an account. He didn’t specify the sin.

I can’t say for certain that you aren’t an artificial chat bot powered by ChatGPT lol. I just go on impressions.

No as I said that forum was where private details were disclosed. I wasn’t there I can’t tell you. I can tell you that is the source where it was mentioned it came from. Howard Allen maybe? That was Vics main partner in crime. It is speculation and the primary source is not available

He hasn’t posted here in a number of years sorry

R was part of “yak twig” in fog years which was an inner circle fellowship at the top levels out together to recover from problems in the “fog years”. Donna was also in these from recollections. Inner circles like this are the only place “affairs” are ever discussed. This inner group dealt with the issues in past and how to move forward. I’m sure they have their own little Pharisee circle thing like that going on now too. So info was disclosed there not publicly recorded like the allegations in a lawsuit or the accounts written in published works.

Awesome account TBone thanks for sharing it. I loved George Muellers book a lot of learning in trust. He really lived on the edge every day with praying to keep a ministry afloat. Interesting with Mueller you see the miraculous account of God clearing up weather so Mueller could get somewhere to serve. Even with the snowstorm story apparently God was wanting VP to stay put rather than clearing weather for him to serve.

Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism. But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it? I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching. As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”

Agnes sounds like she could teach a class on Gaslighting 101 lol. This would be a candidate for a real class with a transcript that they could use in the Corps training program. Then they could get college credit for real world experience lol.

Hmmmmm. Could we label this “collateral” damage?

Yeah it’s some kind of blend of faith and logic. I think the appeal to mathematics is like in geometry you can take “point, line, and plane” on faith as an “axiom” and derive everything else through proofs - “logic” I think spiritual matters are not necessarily that clean cut as you are involving dynamic complex situations with real people. So I’m back to the blend of faith and logic.

Well the Lord’s Prayer has all Greek verbs in the imperative tense. I guess that is a bit demanding lol. I would think that someone with enough going on to be your Lord and Savior would be ok with some slang terminology if that makes a person feel more comfortable in prayer. Its probably not a huge deal even if Pharisees have some unwritten spoken tradition about it.