chockfull

Yeah I got it but with the dispensations there is not a negating of the 10 commandments but a fulfillment from the heart thru Christ. Christ taught “love your neighbor as yourself” as a fulfillment of the law. Without explicitly stating it this would cover stealing from your neighbor and committing adultery with the neighbors spouse as not being according to Christs law. And finally in the “grace administration” the one with the continuous succession of arseholes - there the Word is written in the hearts. So straight from your heart and conscience comes the truth of doing your own work and not stealing your neighbors and having the conscience not to schtoop the secretary - I mean commit adultery with neighbors wife. There you have a response with the appropriate levels of obtuseness and sarcasm.

So being concerned with rightly dividing the word of truth lets rightly divide the 10 commandments where it says “thou shalt not steal”. In VP logic that means you can’t steal because all truth belongs to God. Just like you can’t commit adultery because all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. Flawless logic there.

Gotcha. I mean lawyers do it on cross examination pretty consistently. Attacking the character of a witness to refute the story. There seems to be a fair amount of success with that as people tend to believe the things that are “most like them”. “If the glove does not fit you must acquit” lol. Yes in logic rules ad hominem is not a direct handling of the argument but an attention shift off of the main point of discussion onto an evaluation of the messenger. I personally feel like Paul was teaching a perspective there to followers as opposed to trying to alienate 99% of the known world. Teaching about focusing on virtue as opposed to getting bound up in other approaches. The old “keys” we used to look at were to whom addressed. I guess there are varying views as to who the audience was at the time and to what extent messages apply to an audience. I feel like this is a common problem in fundamentalism. It led to very twisted rules regarding finances in TWI to the point you have idiots teaching that year lease on a place is not debt but a 30 year mortgage is debt. Or a 7 year car note is debt but a 4 year car note called a “lease” is not debt.

How disappointing. These legends in their own mind seem to fall on their face just when they need the power the most. Thats not a great advertisement for a ministry for the more abundant life. I mean even Benny Hinn would have smacked somebody in the head lol Can’t even get that out of a director lol? Maybe he was totally bound by the power of “yes ma’am” from accomplishing any miracles and could only perform the assigned task. Pick on your marriage and try to get some reason to take action against you. These guys are a joke. Calling them Pharisees is an insult to Pharisees who had more logical reasoning. The more interesting story is how you supported your son with love, patience, and solution oriented thinking and action. That is the only actual “believing” happening going on there. Yours.

Hey T Bone. I also have come to the conclusion that throwing out the “bathwater” means throwing out VPWs plagiarism and grandiose schemes and charts and diagrams. I actually start in scripture from where VP said he left. Instead of throwing out all the commentaries I check them first to see what other inspired Christians in the body of Christ think. Then I also reason inductively from scripture. I don’t think “the Word interprets itself” is legitimate as that is a ridiculous figure of speech not found in The Bible. I think scripture interpretation is work and it helps each Christian to live their faith. And it should be done making use of standing on the shoulders of other Christians. Just not on the sinking sand of VPWs stolen works.

She included him in her first post about how they agreed. Why can’t you stop trying to find fault with every single little detail of my posts?

Thanks for sharing. I wanted to point out that leaders first statement you quoted is a complete cop out to logic. Bullinger and Kenyon produced written material. God did not produce their results through automatic writing so what came out from the men’s work is not “in truth and in fact” Gods. It is however the age old rationalization of VPWs plagiarism by whitewashing it with “all truth belongs to God”. However behind the scenes TWI still legally pursues action against people who utilize any of their trademarks. Which of the two faces of the Way are you encountering? The public whitewash one or the private Machiavellian Pharisee oriented one?

Thanks for the scripture breakdown Charity. There is an athletic metaphor I think in 9:24. I think you and OS are accurate in that it does not extend into an allegory as taught by VP and LCM. It is a simple comparison. 9:25 brings it back into non metaphor talking about every person “striving for the mastery” showing in “temperance”. The mastery is referring to living a spiritual life I think in general as my read from a non fundy. Live it with some discipline showing temperance or self control in life.

They have their track shoes laced up and are trying to outrun the past and the truth lol. As opposed to athletes they are fleeing a crime scene.

So honestly I read this and was going to make a wise crack about Gods willingness equaling Gods ability. But after resting it for a day I’m thinking that stray Plaffy logic really detracts from a conversation so I’ll refrain from that. The lack of ability to understand I can totally see how it comes off as an ad hominem attack. The lack of willingness maybe due to different focus or pre conceptions seems more to me how I would read that currently. I view a parallel as IQ versus EQ. We measured intelligence solely by logic capacity for hundreds of years. Now we measure another component by a different measure to do with emotions. Ewww. Totally weird. And now those of us who might be slightly spectrumy like myself are in last place although having some smarts in logic. That sure sucks lol. Thats how I view different “kinds” of knowledge currently. I realize my views are somewhat progressive but that is me and my brain so it is what it is.

I focused on the missing reference from VPs last teaching simply because you are so focused on that teaching as guidance for 20+ years. No other reason or hopes involved. I personally took that direction as that teaching preceded my time in-residence in the Way Corps and that is what we focused on in the Way Corps in lieu of any accredited classes. So been there done that have the t shirt. I don’t view TWI as having any insight on the “first 3 manifestations”. Over a 20 year period I observed plenty of problems teaching those things and running classes for others and their interpretation has more to do with control of others as opposed to truth which frees others. I view TWI as scribes and Pharisees with scribe and Pharisee interpretation of scripture resulting in scribe and Pharisee fruit in their individual lives and in the group. Convince me I’m wrong.

No I am stating a reasonable assumption. Now you are progressing in the accusations to “not Christlike”. I am simply pointing out a touch of hypocrisy in starting a thread here with this title calling out “all of us on the Way Corps” to “take a long hard look at ourselves” and then not returning to do what they were calling us out on although the discussion has been ongoing since last Wednesday. I personally feel pointing that out is very “Christlike”. He pointed out hypocrisy often. But feel free to continue your word study of who he did this to. Maybe it will lead back to your accusations roundabout. I started out making every excuse for why the disengagement after the initial confrontation. Make no mistake the original post does contain an accusation with “as Way Corps we all ….. XYZ” She knows not a single thing of my life in that program. And yes I first complied and answered honestly. Now I’m coming back with I’m not an emotional play toy to come dump on here then run and not deal with discussing what you said about others. And me. I’m sure next you’ll blame me for her not posting. Take a step back and see what all this is generating. Division here and lack of focus on TWI but rather how we may or may not have participated properly in the Stanford prison experiment. Taking a hard look at ourselves. By ourselves. Ok I did. And as a result TWI it’s not me it’s you. And you can keep the guilt trip and try to sell it to Jesus at the return.

First it was “defensive” now it is “confrontational”? Seriously? Really?

Dude - pot kettle on the “confrontational” - you are the one calling us “defensive”. I am responding in kind.

“All of us in the Way Corps” doesn’t look to me like an “I” statement. I don’t understand how challenging someone to participate in a discussion about “all of us in the Way Corps” is defensive in the least bit. Maybe you can come up with a compelling desire to explain that …. since you are speaking on it.

I guess I find it interesting that after a good period of time we have more communication speculating the intent and boundaries surrounding what she was saying rather than interaction and clarification and the exchange of ideas to promote community growth. While I can and do examine my past, admit my mistakes and have left an abusive system to not get looped in to an abused/abuser cycle, including admitting error just being in the group, what profit is a drive by with an emotional dump for the entire body of Christ? So I completely disagree. While the initial elements contained some emotional awareness, GSC also is not a garbage dump for waylaid regret. The lack of reconnecting and continuing a discussion you started is not emotional intelligence. It is using others for an emotional release and a dumping ground. I hope MarieP and spouse get past this and talk more about their perceived culpability and its sources. To me that is the only way to emotional intelligence. If not then Marie thanks for the observations I will and already have considered and worked it into my views and consideration. Best wishes finding peace with your past, present and future.

So much of this section of scripture for me was used to justify requiring unqualified commitment and obedience to a program and its leaders. And it still is used that way. That in itself is a twisting of the scripture for an organizational benefit. In reading this from a fresh perspective it seems like just an encouragement not to give up. Instead of wallowing in the past to focus on productive things and not get the ego inflated by past accomplishments or position (which is everything to TWI). The group we belong to is a group who spiritually strive to live virtue every day by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. And there is a future with that group. When Jesus Christ returns there will be no TWI. There will be no “denominations” or “cults”. All that effort people put in to climbing a ladder and re arranging desk setups in a Tower of Babel are going to amount to exactly nothing. There will be truth, and virtue, and the entire body of Christ working as one. All of that is based upon a real and true relationship with Jesus Christ as verse 10 expounds. Not a fake dashboard Jesus who only lifts a Jesus finger cool sign when the “law of believing” is complied with and a judgment finger when it’s not. Not a bunch of “manifestations” obscured by charts and rules and keys. And restricted teaching that is not deemed essential based upon debt. Or “gift ministries” propping up a Pharisee internal culture based upon greed and ease of life. I just have a different perspective not being bound to the same stupid people and bondage tenets that I was bound to in the past.

Yes valid point. Sometimes when people really share a lot with a group of people over the next days they are ashamed of doing so and so disconnect subconsciously. MarieP showed up as many have in the past a singular call to examine our own morals and past. If this was a genuine connection then it will not be a drive by. If it is not then hopefully that dump will give her some peace somewhere. I would also challenge MarieP and her husband to consider this. No matter what people did to hurt you and no matter what you did, it was all due to the system of error set up by an adultering plagiarist who twisted scripture and started a cult that trapped many and robbed them of the abundant life. The only way to end a cycle of continuous abuse is to call it out until it is no longer hidden to the people affected.

They won’t respond. From their view they have corrected the error with the latest believers family class where they define adultery as wrong and things in standard Christian fashion. They will never admit past wrongs as that would open them up for litigation. They will whitewash, ignore and move on. The next generation know nothing of the sins of the past generation and pretty much don’t care.

This is actually very telling. The class that teaches 6 out of the 9 “manifestations” brought up in PLAF is “conspicuously missing”. So by your belief 2/3 of the “holy spirit” field is not necessary to master? Written materials by VP include the work covered in penworks book as well as the “By the Way” articles which are a whole other category of material. Or do you specifically limit that to “Studies in Abundant Living” hard cover books volume one thru five?

Yeah the “athlete” allegory in TWI has developed a severe case of “athletes foot”.

Damn. And I thought my green Way Corps ring was like a Green lantern energizer ring bringing the green power into the present realm by mastering the encoder commands and speaking them into the air in tongues. /s

Did the secret decoder ring materialize all by itself or was it created by sky daddy? Runs off and hides lol

Thanks for the additional dialogue it helps me understand where you are coming from and helps me form a more complete picture of your views which hopefully I’m not assuming too much in. We may be closer in views than I first thought. Areas unexplainable by scientific laws. If those are present there is room for a lot of varying philosophy.

The systematizing of error is a great way to express the little nuance changes in governance that occur in top leadership. Like NDAs to prevent anyone with inside knowledge from exposing it. With every stroke of the whitewash brush the system gets more functional more alluring and more of a package deal. And more removed from historical blinders. The JWs survived wrongfully predicting the return of Christ and whitewashed it. The Mormons are currently covering up a $20b + money laundering scandal. Cults will cult. Whitewash is the most commonly bought color in the paint store.