chockfull

131. You can’t just “take the class” once and be done with it. It becomes an endless repeat loop throughout all life. a. Take the class b. Serve on class crew c. Get everyone you know to “take the class” d. Go out on an ambassador one year program to spend a year convincing others to “take the class”. e. Enter a “lifetime of Christian service” program centered around running the class multiple times per year. f. In retirement as “emeritus” help others by serving on class crew and “undershepherding” others until you die. Anything on endless loop repeat sucks.

On the other thread we learned of the lawsuit and surrounding neglect of VPWs widow after his passing. So the woman who along with the founder donated the land to TWI faced their abandonment during the end times of her life. This is indeed a Pharisee whose children in leadership of TWI are threefold the children of hell he was.

Yeah that is good. These are traits that don’t appear front and center in any of the bronze images of the man in lobbies of auditoriums or on the desks of sycophant followers.

Did I leave off the url?

18 Characteristics Of A Pharisee There were four schools of thought in Jesus’ day. From the Bible we see the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Zealots. From religious history we also see the Essenes. The Pharisees were the strictest sect of Jews as Paul states in Acts 26:5. Their very name meant “set apart.” However, all too often they clung to their own laws and traditions instead of God’s Law. Jesus rebuked them many a time as they were hypocrites and did not love truth nor followed it. Why is it important to know about the Pharisees? Well, in Matt. 5:20 Jesus said: “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” The following were the main characteristics of the Pharisees: (1) They threw aside God’s commandments and made the commandments of men and traditions into doctrines. (Mark 7:7-9). (2) They were more concerned with outer purity rather than the purity of the heart. Jesus said that they cleaned the inside of the cup but inside their hearts were full of wickedness! (See Luke 11:39; Matt. 23:25, 27, 28). (3) They tithed on herbs which is good but more important matters like justice and the love for God were overlooked. (See Luke 11:32; Matt. 23:23,24). They strained out a gnat but they swallowed a camel. ((Matt 23:24) (4) They loved the highest seats and public greetings in the market because they were selfish and wanted to be seen by people, to the point of enlarging the borders of their clothes. (Luke 11:43; Matt. 23:5-10; Mark 12:38) (5) They made people fall. Jesus said that they were like hidden graves that made unsuspecting people fall in. (Luke 11:44). (6) They did not want people to be healed on the Sabbath that God made for man but yet they would take out their ox if it fell in a pit on Sabbath. (Matt. 13:11-17). (7) They burdened people with unnecessary traditions and did not raise a finger to help. (Luke 11:46; Matt. 23:4) (8) They built the sepulchers of the prophets that their own ancestors killed. (Luke 11:47, 48; Matt. 23:29-31). In fact they killed Jesus. (See Matt. 12:14; 21:33-46; Matt. 27:20-22). (9) They took away the key of knowledge. They blocked people from getting into heaven and they themselves did not get in. (Matt. 23:13, Luke 11:52; John 12:42,43) (10) They devoured widows’ houses! (Matt. 23:14) (11) They said long prayers pretending that they were righteous. (Matt. 23:14) (12) They went on land and sea to convert people and they made those converts twice a child of hell as themselves! (Matt. 23:15) (13) They forbade people from swearing by the gold of the temple but they swore by the temple itself! (Matt. 23:16,17) (14) They talked and do not did not do anything. (Matt 23:3). They even praised God with their lips and their heart was far from Him. (Matt. 7:6). (15) They were fools, blind guides and hypocrites. (Matt 23:16-25; Luke 11:44,46; 12:1-3). John the Baptist called them vipers (Matt. 3:7). (16) They loved to tempt, accuse and oppose Jesus. (Matt. 16:1; 19:3; Mark 8:11; 10:2; 12:13; Luke 6:7). They continuously tried to entangle Him in His talk (Matt. 22:15). Paul, who was a Pharisee, told of his own nature before his conversion: "I (Paul) verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth." So when he came on the scene after Jesus' ascension he persecuted the Christian Church. (17) They asked for a sign to believe when many were already given. If given yet another sign they would not believe. (Luke 22:66, 67). Note that the incident mentioned in the given text was after three and a half years of Jesus working miracles, healing all types of diseases and even raising the dead! (18) There is hope even for “Pharisees”. Acts 6:7 tells us what happed after Jesus went back to Heaven and His disciples preached after being filled with the Holy Spirit. It says: “And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Are you a Pharisee in heart? Come to Jesus and tell Him you want to be like Him. Humble yourself like a child. If you are willing He will change your life and make you a new person. He will cast all your past sins behind His back as He has promised and He will save you so you will neither be one of the two extremes – a hardened sinned or a self-righteous Pharisee who is also a sinner. Let Jesus do this for you now. Help Him to help you by asking Him now sincerely.

I think I see why God is “on a budget”. Pretty much all of the discussion centers around the warm fuzzy idea of “having a package” that helps you live as a disciple or mature Christian. This supposed “package” is Plaffy and int Plaffy and the secretary notes bound into 5 volumes plus the stolen RHST and PLAF books. This “package” is supposed to help “new people” that we are working with and somehow without the “package” we are unable to minister to new Christians. The reality is the “package” is the same kind of deal they sell in Scientology with the reprinted works of LRH. An all inclusive ticket to “enlightenment” of some kind called different things - going clear, true discipleship, being “an ambassador” a really prestigious title for a youngster. The reality is that without “the package” you have all of Christianity to draw upon and all of the body of Christ groups in a local area and the teachings of many with a wide and varied educational background to include degrees in Bible languages. But all of those involve free thought, prayer and collaboration. All of those things disengage when you dumb your mind down to “the package”. Because everyone just says go back to the package standard and you will be “blessed”. I mean you may receive superficial attaboys from a leader but not a real lasting solution that matters in life. The bondage of false teaching is what limits God to only one way of looking things to a certain solution or approach. I mean the whole gist of this conversation is a golden calf apologist trying to convince others that since the calf is simple and easy to understand you should worship the calf. Or the VP statue. Or the VP “package” which basically focuses the attention on the content and not the “package” of the author himself as that is a fail.

Hey Charity, That is super cool with the dual approach of tools plus simple reading. I am probably focused 80% currently on simplicity, reading and untangling doctrine and maybe 20% on using Bibleworks to dissect scripture. For me that works to keep out of the “scribe mentality” another group of legalists confronted by Christ. I am currently less enamored with the “how maths work” aspect of scriptures fitting “with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision” I kind of feel that path leading to more traps. But without your hands in the recipe making the dish doesn’t turn out at all. Trying for a balanced approach. Usually I see it swinging by the balance lol. Best, C

Yes the same fear of loss of power and position keeps TWI leaders trapped in an endless abuse cycle. They can’t give it up and manufacture twisted doctrines to maintain their power. God calls this out as motivated by greed and lust - for power influence and control.

I can confirm the truth of this story. The zealots following the top Pharisees always have the zealots passion. Kind of like a suicide bomber they take ludicrousness and amplify it to extremes. And woe to the person who challenges them!

One of the sources that drew me to the parallels between the Pharisee operation in Biblical times and TWI in modern times was the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse”. I will dig up some quotes but in general it seems to be a topical study on the Pharisees and pointing out how that method of operating produces spiritual abuse. The example the author drew on was this type of dynamic in a mainstream Christian church he had experience with. Interesting to note that his proving ground for this was not in an isolationist cult but right there hidden in main view in a church. Chapter after chapter left me right in the middle of how TWI operates. One point that comes to mind is the Pharisees always construct inner circles so that the top leader never has to “become unclean” by dealing with the commoner. That is for lower level Pharisees. BOD isolate themselves similarly. Another point was investigating the Corban issue where the Pharisees would not even fulfill the responsibility of caring for elderly parents but claim all the help was for “moving the Word” or spiritual goals instead and refused to care for their elders. They strain at a gnat but swallow a camel. Look at all of the legalism surrounding the worship “manifestations” ending up in zero engagement with other Christians. Look at all the little loopholes for debt that they live in while putting the spurs to the common believers keeping them poor and out of mortgages. They themselves get free labor for building houses, and keep mortgages in relatives names using them to keep themselves “clean” in the matter. While others are dropped from leadership and programs for not having tricky loopholes. There is a whole world of parallels between the Pharisees and TWI leadership. Most of the patterns come out in that book IMO.

Yes this all makes me wonder if the whole mystery concept is a consolidation of all of these different time periods with their rules into one standard overall that applies to all no matter the time origin or ethnic origin. Jews and Gentiles merging into one. Pre and post tribulation Christians merging into one. And then eventually all just one world and new heaven and earth that is not as complicated as this one. Yes most commentaries are not focused on “The Great Mystery” like we were in Plaffy. I guess to me it isn’t as much hype as VP jumped around about. It’s like eventually the justice system will be fair, expedient and functional. Cool. Maybe I’m under reacting.

Rocky thanks for the book recommendation on physics. It should rank on up there with my favorite HG2G https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy

The Revelation chapter 6 stuff is interesting. With respect to the timing of all that I think that period of time is post gathering together. The end times timing throughout there describes tribulations befalling the end times believers and the periods involved. Also there seems to be a preparation period for the final battle then the battle itself. The third heaven and earth would be post apocalyptic. Its not readily apparent to me what the seals represent but they could have a temporal aspect meaning a period of time or series of events that occur to open the seal. The white robe also seems to be obscured at the moment - perhaps it would take the opening of the 5th seal for the meaning to become fully known… Some thoughts.

This is a model of an extended Pharisee culture not a Christian organization based upon the Bible.

I guess to sum up the title of this thread that I can expect the BOD of TWI to do what is stated there and take responsibility and a long hard look at themselves. I did it myself in this thread. I have never heard any version of TWI 1-4 do this in any sense other than during the fog years they listened to a couple people they shouldn’t have. Does TWI 4 do this? No. 3? Ha. No. 2? Maybe for a brief time then the Galatians tapes and axing everyone because mad 1? Not in the makeup of the man to take responsibility and honestly self evaluate. So the leaders of TWI basically do the exact opposite of what we are being called out here to do. No responsibility. No accountability. No surveys put out. No free time for questions. Never ever ever ever ever take a long hard look at self. Why is this? Hmmmm

I mean how culty is your thinking if you describe all the world as empty and confused? Do you just walk down the street with your nose in the air viewing people walking by as “empties”? No wonder they live isolated. And build bunkers and have C rations. I on the other hand enjoy a rich interaction with many varied people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds and beliefs.

In TWI there never were any “new” people. The vast majority of those I encountered were already Christians being love bombed into sitting in an excruciatingly boring audio class that isolated them off into a shipwreck splinter of the family faith. Your long rambling series of questions seems similar to justifying the golden calf to Israel. A tent evangelist and a ticket to a local church would be infinitely better than Plaffy. It would illustrate correct doctrine as opposed to isolationist fundamentalist cult doctrine. ”trusted past teaching” if it is doctrinal error then of course it needs to be addressed. It seems like the bitterness is coming from you with your desperate pleas to worship a man and his stolen work. We offer no alternative to TWI 4 folks other than the truth. Christianity can be found anywhere yet missed everywhere. Only those under the bondage of TWI need hand held steps to find it. Just like former TWI brethren you throw out a “bitterness” label and negate the truth of everything taught or challenged. It would be less boring if the Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons didn’t employ the exact same tactics. Oooh look the other way there is no $32b that is a spiritual $32b lol. Not surprising that those local TWI leaders make fun of us. They retain their comfort and never stand up for what they know is right - like the “yes ma’am” guy exactly. To me that is the brain dead vapid behavior as opposed to challenging a hucksters work. Christianity is totally sweet. And better not under the bondage of Pharisees and not burying your head in the sand like the troll. Bondage + censorship = bitterness Freedom + truth = sweetness

Part of the hocus pocus snake oil sales is the idea of “mastering” fundamentals in spiritual truth via censoring yourself from anything that wasn’t printed by Vic and American Christian Press. No we don’t all have to “master” something. For example, Vic never “mastered” any of the original Biblical languages before teaching them. Few to none of the teachers in TWI have “masters” degrees in anything. Those that do are in different fields than Biblical or language studies. The blind leading the blind leads to a “mastery” of falling in ditches. That is about where TWI faith is at. But you want to de focus on you and talk about me so you can hide. I have found that putting your trust in man will leave you disappointed. Except for the one perfect man - trust in the Lord Jesus Christ will leave you delighted. I have also found that focusing on putting my trust in the works of man leave you disappointed. But focusing on the works of Christ leave you delighted. All of your questions seem to be framed at getting to Plaffy definitions. Like the Bible as your only rule of faith and practice and other such sound bites. Vic’s self interpreted Word is certainly not my rule of faith and practice. It is too flawed. It has BS cult interpretations of “household and family” of God leading to isolation from the full body of Christ. Who is doing a good job of guiding Gods people today would be my Lord and Savior at the right hand of the Father. He directs and guides via the Spirit to those members of His body throughout the world in various forms. But those that claim to be “the only ones” will be the only ones sitting in line while every other Christian is recognized first. Now let’s turn the focus back to you. Why do you continue to converse only in terms of Plaffy bondage? Why can’t you see beyond it?

And yet perception like logic can be dulled through the lack of use or exercise. In this I would agree with you. The more factors that are allowed to fill the perception and logic of an individual the more restricted the free will choices are. Just like the aging grandma who refuses to consider child molestation charges in “Jehovahs governing body” as anything other than lies to hurt the JWs she has little freedom of will. Just like the staunch believer Mormon who refuses to consider “apostate sites” like the SEC calling out the Mormons for hiding $32b while auditing poor widows for their tithe. His freedom of will is limited. Just like the sheeple who get the “come on home “ postcard and think “wow I’ll just come on home for sentimental reasons” they give up their freedom of will and sign it over to a taskmaster. If it’s not that big of a deal that perceptions are accurate then you are the perfect sheeple candidate for TWI. You don’t need or want freedom of will and certainly would not trade it for comfort. I would trade it for comfort. I’d rather have the free will.

God will also assert the proper ownership of those to whom He revealed things to. Those He did not reveal things to He will indicate such. So either way VP and followers can lie plagiarize and steal all the way until the music starts then they have to face it. God did not intend Rom 11 and Deut 29 to be used as an excuse or license to sin. Those who use it in that fashion and teach others the same will have quite a great burden.

Well there are a number of splinters all surrounding the doctrine of VPW. Most modified the governance to put themselves in charge but did nothing to correct the doctrine. I don’t believe I said that accepting those changes would correct everything about TWI. It would have given the leadership doing the work a vote at least. Votes for assignments and policies and who filled major assignments. It would still not give the common believer a vote in any way. It would demolish the decision making in a vacuum from the directors. I’m actually not thinking the people in RnR are a solution at all but the process would indicate a willingness to start somewhere as opposed to where they are at now. ”Come on home”. That place has never been my home I’m just passing thru.

So as the father of “re-search” he did a whole lotta “re”? And we can’t speculate on how much “re” is by the final quality because it looks so much like the original without any words changed? I would surmise the amount of “re” to be minimal as he used it to cut time corners while getting his class out as opposed to cultivating BG Leonard material for a few years then doing his own class. Also during long periods of verbatim copy from JE Stiles book to RHST VP checked into a hotel so nobody could question his long periods of copy action. This was way before personal computers.

I challenge Mike to equally employ his model of Gods ownership across all areas of the Earth planet as God owns it. No need to pay for taxes, gas, groceries, labor. It’s all free. All you need is your Cambridge wide margin and some multi colored pens to note which class or collateral the verse is covered in Plaffy. Report back here on how it goes. It’s ok you will have internet access at times from the minimum security prison.

I on the other hand am really glad that Vanilla Ice had to pay royalties to Queen over his hit “Ice Ice Baby” for plagiarizing Queens main riff on “Under Pressure”. It caused Vanilla to give up his fake persona and go to work for the Amish building furniture. Too bad the Vicster never had that positive experience for himself and instead now tens of people across the world are being love bombed into hours of boredom listening to false doctrine increasing the control of cult members over them and isolating them from other Christians.

The top down construction of TWI was always totalitarian. T1 was all VP with a heavy hand T2 was the same with LCM T3 the teachers didn’t matter and were swapped out. The control was in the administration. Who did much less than 1 and 2 T4 is the same as T3 except the prez teaches again It is the same top down totalitarian structure that the JW Governing Body and the Mormon Q15 and Q70 use except for the numbers involved. The larger cults have more $$$$ to sit on like the Mormons $32B fund they are catching heat for. The little person has no rights including voting rights to affect anything within the org. In denominations the little person does have voting rights. In fact the leadership group of TWI especially field leadership also have no voting rights. The BOD rule everyone and everything with a heavy hand allowing no outside votes or influence. The need to change this was called out by the R and R group who sent in a list of reformations to TWIs board. Just like in the Martin Luther video they like to show around “reformation Sunday” that group was excommunicated like Martin Luther was. With no power to enact change within the organization those wishing for change are needing to leave the organization to accomplish any change even the most basic sort. However as started in T3 they will lie to people about this and allow them to think they will listen and change.