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chockfull

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Everything posted by chockfull

  1. chockfull
    No with someone like you who has been so ensconced in this viewpoint and corresponding censorship for well over 2 decades it would take some kind of awakening and then a period of time to re adjust. Some talking about leaving other cults talk about a persons “shelf breaking” I guess to signify not being able to hold in such a high place the revered books of the organization. Your shelf is fully intact so you are pretty blind to most things we share with you:
  2. chockfull
    From “KGB” the Russian secret service. It’s a play on those words.
  3. chockfull
    Sure it is an internal nickname given to J0hn L1nder and his cronies in the Safety department. Rev L has been involved in all of the cleanup situations and was there armed in the confrontation between Paul Allen and Martindale. He knows where the bodies are buried and so people give him a wide berth from any type of accusation.
  4. chockfull
    All the sets of facts are important. If only a certain set are important then you will be on a lifetime subscription for daily snake oil. But fruit is expanded beyond one person. When you look at the negative impact on all the lives of the Corps and others it is insurmountable. And the fruit of building up or tearing down the overall body of Christ is clear also.
  5. chockfull
    Thanks - I have a hard copy in a box somewhere. This method allows for a 1 hour “borrow” to get exact text. OS posted screenshots of the pertinent pages. Your book is excellent and highly recommended for all who visit this site. It covers a unique period in the formative years of the ministry not available through other sources. Thanks for writing it - great job !!!
  6. chockfull
    Now this. Mainstream Christianity seeks a balance between Jesus teachings and Paul’s letters. The reason for this is most of Christianity does not support extreme hyper dispensationalism. EW Bullinger was an extreme hyper dispensationalist. And VPW “lifted” his work for PFAL so it has the same viewpoint. Dispensationalists typically teach similar to TWI that we live in the “grace administration” where Paul’s letters are more pertinent to the times. PFAL goes further in wrong doctrine than that in teaching some scripture is “to us” and other scripture is “for our learning”. This is a shell game describing how to discount OT and gospel teachings as being lesser or written to another group in another time. No. If scripture is God inspired then it would be to the audience. It does not mean Levitical law applies to us today. But plenty of people examine it for setting legal precedents today. The next is denigrating labels like trinitarian. It dumbs down the discussion and is a label that is a form of ad hominem attack that reduces the other persons relationship with God and Jesus Christ to something that is easily discounted. Like “ewww they are trinitarians”. .... off. I’ll let my Lord Jesus Christ describe the nature of that relationship I have to you at the return just like the slandering TWI leadership.
  7. chockfull
    I wanted to address this because it is likely the viewpoint that the leaders in TWI have of me and us on this GSC site. Jesus instructed his followers to look at the “fruit” of things rather than their outward appearance. This is actually an ad hominem logic attack on the points I bring up regarding idolatry and Wierwille. Instead of dealing with the obvious it seeks to bypass and ignore the obvious due to a flawed character on the person arguing. No my perspective is not “saturated with sin, frustration, anger, etc.” I am not saturated with VPs sin. Or my own. I am not frustrated or angry as it is more than a decade beyond all the personal attacks of the TWI leadership on my life and the lies they spread about me to their followers whatever they were - I only heard rumors and secondhand accounts. So I’m not seeking revenge for those actions they can talk to my Lord Jesus Christ about all of that at the return. My image of VPW is simply untarnished by whitewash and is simply factually based. There is nothing I am distorting - there has never been one example of anything I distorted despite your claim. There are also no gross exaggerations. All of that horse manure and your accusations of me are based on being upset at being confronted on what is the most obvious case of idolatry since Aaron and the golden calf of Israel. Its more you seeking revenge on me and others who have consistently pointed out the truth and obvious facts for over a decade.
  8. chockfull
    I actually have my own snowstorm story. You wanna hear it? When I was an active Corps grad we had Corps nights every Wednesday night. We had to dress up in a suit and tie and drive and hour each way to participate in a phone hookup for Corps that was mandatory attendance. In those meetings there was ranting over people that left, libel and slander raking people over the coals who had somehow fallen outside Way guidelines, and very twisted teachings from zealots perspectives. Many nights I remember snow and even blizzard conditions. But we were Corps so missing it was out of the question. So we drove and I affixed my vision to the dotted line a couple feet in front of my car and we prayed. We didn’t die thankfully. End of story.
  9. chockfull
    There are 2 categories of idols here. 1) the statue OS posted the photo of. This is given to clergy along with a Way Corps seal when they get ordained. All TWI clergy have that bronze of VPW sitting in a prominent position in their offices so all who come in can see it and take note of the great spiritual presence of the person who has it. 2) There were 2 life size bronze statues of “the teacher” made to place in the TWI teaching centers in New Knoxville and ? (Gunnison)? to signify the connection between Timothy taking charge of the scrolls from Paul and preserving it for his generation. Likewise VPW took PFAL and preserved it for his generation - these statues are commonly referred to as the “Timothy statues”. The intent of both of these fictional art pieces was and is to preserve the whitewashed memory of Victor Paul Wierwille who they call their “father in the Word” to all succeeding generations. To preserve an idol image as opposed to the truth.
  10. chockfull
    No I am accurate on the “real man” part. If you notice unlike your account it remains the same always but doesn’t waver back and forth like yours does. The reason yours does waver like that is because of “ostriches”. These are birds who bury their head in the sand whenever controversy arises so they don’t have to look at any controversial “negatives” but only look at the positives. You have done this for more than 20 years and have been called out on it here at GSC for 15 of those years. The problem with an “ostrich” point of view or alternatively a “Pollyanna” point of view is that it doesn’t resolve the very real negatives, it just pushes them downstream. Even downstream into the subconscious. This causes them to build up and many times can lead to extreme types of breaks like nervous breakdowns, or in another case here from a lawsuit results in healthy young people walking in front of trains t commit suicide. It is very detrimental and very dangerous. I am 100 percent accurate calling you a VP idolator. You expend none of the effort you do defending VP on defending Paul of the Bible. Other Christians observing TWI absolutely do NOT notice any great emphasis on Paul they notice cult-like behavior and doctrine. I’ve amply shared concrete examples of this. Look at the “Cults S3” thread here and watch the first video example for an accurate sample of other Christian views. But you won’t as you censor all potential negatives. I will say that what you are trying to promote here is the same Pollyanna whitewash the Way does about Paul. Paul didn’t steal a class from multiple people and label it his own. He just wrote letters. A lot from jail. He had zero ability to amass a self seeking cult that enriched him like VP was enriched by properties, planes, motor coaches, motorcycles, campuses and adulating followers. Just like on my American Idol example the picture of Kelly Clarkson most have is not reality. She married her agent who found her success, who is Reba McIntire’s son. Bought a large ranch with him. Divorced. Took 2 years to kick him off her property. He had changed careers during that time and wanted to be a rancher. She denied that. Much much different image than the talk show host and singer persona that appears to America. Just like that you and TWI promote a fake image of Victor Paul Wierwille that is supported by literal images in molten medal called “Timothy statues”. This promoted the false identity and f public image Wierwille rather than the real image which was known by those closest to him.
  11. chockfull
    Hi Charlene, Yes I’m aware of that reference. The reason I would not necessarily include it in biographical material is that it is not currently recognized by TWI and is not available for sale in their bookstore. Mrs. VPWs biography of her husband (and self) entitled “Born Again To Serve” does not mention the story. This is available in their bookstore so I would consider it “supported” biographical material. The problem with this is that makes the story exist kind of in limbo. They don’t want to put it out there officially because it’s a sketchy story, but they want the buzz of the story out there as it hypes up the whitewashed image of Wierwille they wish to portray.
  12. chockfull
    If you mean top leaders then say so. Over 95% of the people who have gone through the “Way Corps” training no longer believe it was training in how to mimic the “Way” our Lord Jesus Christ, but more a program to produce zealots for some “other” Way.
  13. chockfull
    After reading through all of this my impression is you are recollecting the evolution of your image of VPW. As opposed the the real man. Kind of like OS is saying. VP didn’t go thru all those evolutions of character he pretty much was the same guy thru the 60s 70s and 80s - except he was dying in the 80s. His biographical material doesn’t depict a character shift. It also doesn’t record the snowstorm story. What was your job at HQ 1976-1978? Why do you continue to use denigrating terms like “snappers”? Whatever that means you use it in a pejorative sense. The base meaning of an idol is an image different than the real deal. We have American Idol the vocal show trying to build the stars of tomorrow. So that Kelly Clarkson can become rich and famous. And Carrie Underrwood. The real people are different than the images portrayed of them to sell millions of records.
  14. chockfull
    I remember joking about whether or not we were having “familia spirits” for breakfast today or not. And brawn food. And all Grace Bliss’s additions to the menu including no salt and pepper but cayenne and seaweed sprinkles.
  15. chockfull
    Yes the idol of VPW is always whitewashed. I mean you can’t expect all these silent agreeing readers of Mikes to get on their knees before a dirty golden image? Housekeeping we’ve got a visible stain on the Timothy statue. We need a polish rag over here stat! Likewise we have a vilification of all Corps. And a false judgement that all Corps somehow “missed it” on the fundamentals of what they spent 2 years in a close governed environment studying in depth. I really could care less if anything I post triggers some nonce who keeps talking down to me in a parent child tone.
  16. chockfull
    I remember the days of people deciding to go Wow at the ROA and “believing” to get their money together to go.
  17. chockfull
    You know Wierwilles idea for Marines being the pattern for his leadership group shows a remarkably similar mindset to Scientology and L Ron Hubbard’s “Sea Organization”. This group originated when Scientology was about to lose its tax exempt status. Hubbard bought a large boat and took his organization into international waters to run Scientology from the boat. All of the young men and women on that boat were the first “sea org” like Mike Rinder the co star of the Scientology expose along with Leah Remini. The idea was the same. A group of absolutely committed non questioning zealots that would obey even the most ridiculous request and work for minimum wage.
  18. chockfull
    Considering his track record with other peoples work you left off the very real possibility that he stole course materials but did not complete the courses. Like a first year student who dropped out mid term. That fits the bill here. Zero credit hours. I guess the real problem here is that a masters degree is required for a doctorate degree. So any of your permutations would have to include faking a masters degree for entry into the Pikes Peak Bible College where as a distance student he had about one year of mail in assignments then a speech at graduation. That was the entire breadth of his education. So was that all without exception or all without distinction. Lol.
  19. chockfull
    And since you were never in the Corps this means exactly nothing
  20. chockfull
    The Corps is a necessary cult element providing free labor at the expense of volunteers lives. Any imagery like the Marines promotes extremist behavior. No other Christian seminary or school uses this type of imagery, only Wierwille. So extremist behavior dedicated to him is what he wanted in that program. Calling it Wierwilles folly is laughable as all of Wierwilles works were folly. What did he say? If we lose WOW and the Corps we lose the ministry. Just like the free volunteers in Jehovahs Witnesses, like the cheap labor in Scientology’s Sea Org, or all the missionaries in the Mormon church, using others at their expense for your benefit is what Wierwille excelled at. He didn’t even need excellor sessions in trading in peoples flesh and using them he was a natural. Zealots for the cause is what that term is intended to produce. And OMG does the Way have more than its share of self centered abusers, mostly Corps and clergy and officers and directors.
  21. chockfull
    We’re not impatient it is just that it’s ridiculous for you to take a year to get through a short book. It also illustrates that you only read what supports your idols. The ending is not spoiled it is a real story from a real Christian and ignoring it and calling her different names is wrong. I don’t know what point you are making about 5-senses. Everybody has them including your idol. Christians worked in the research department with godly goals and intentions. Yes VP approached research not with inductive reasoning seeking what it says of itself but deductive reasoning assuming his visions were true and looking for supporting evidence. That in itself is an admission there never was any genuine research in TWI. None by VP and due to his influence none by those he hired other than to shine up his theories. Yet it didn’t work out that way - the Christians actually did genuine God inspired work, which caused friction with Wierwille as opposed to just going along with him. Walter did more of the go along to get along as he is part of Wierwilles extended family. All of the genuine Christians were fired, and the work taken credit for as authors by VP. All of those 5 goals you listed for the research department are not goals that benefit the entire body of Christ, but benefit the setup of a cult and cult leadership. The more you list the worse it looks.
  22. chockfull
    I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other Christians, rote mechanics in place of worship manifestations, conspiracy theory, lack of sexual boundaries (Schoenheit adultery paper), and wrong dividing of scripture to introduce spiritual abuse via the all powerful leadership. The easiest way to see all this is to start from the practical side. What tactics do all destructive cults have in common? Once you see they all have common elements of control and unquestioning obedience, you can work backwards easily to see the false doctrine that introduced the error. Make no mistake it was the false teachings of VPW that caused far more damage than his personal behavior.
  23. chockfull
    Ian Poulter approves of this message!
  24. chockfull
    Some people view Charles Manson the same way. If you could only set aside the bad parts and see the good. The Wilson sisters from Heart seem to have this kind of undying connection to Charlie. Most however let that fantasy slide after watching or reading helter skelter. Some are just blind to any criticism or objective evaluation…
  25. chockfull
    Well I don’t know about you but the silent reader is getting tired of all the whiny drama. Besides everything I need to know about “needs and wants parallel” I can learn from Greta van Fleet lol.
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