chockfull

I liked the "Left Behind" fictional series. Good entertaining reading. Of course I had to get past looking down my nose at them as inferior and inaccurate first (had to smack down the haughty twi thoughts). But the authors have done a whole lot more work in Revelation than I will ever get to. actually that's quite humorous. it really amounted to ignore sections of the Bible and any new work in them and to follow the example of plagiarism set by der fadder in der verd.

some of that is basic social skillsets. i've read studies showing that large amounts of change necessary to fulfill a given role from natural tendencies is a major source of stress. ideally you would just live the "authentic" you despite the role, yet that would usually generate huge amounts of conflict. the reality is somewhere in the middle. the best job, spouse, relationships for a person would be those where the natural or "authentic" you would involve the least amount of role playing. scriptures direct your "love to be without hypocrisy", or that the more genuinely from a love motivation an individual lives, the less they have to wear the masks of those roles. yes people in twi are among the worst at quoting those scriptures and living completely differently. the little power structures in the org drive people to hypocrisy along with their weak morals. the "authentic" you would be the one in a vacuum. or the one in a vacuum that doesn't involve the baser human vices of nature.

The good times and the time spent are kind of the turning point for people. Some see those and it motivates them to turn a blind eye to the evil that occurs and the source and infrastructure that delivers it. Others see both and are hurt because they see their wasted life in being bound up in it. Yet others see both and cherish their past in spite of obstacles and make a better future.

she's "bullish" on America?

Sure. The problem is that words are assigned meanings or intents that they don't have, and those meanings or intents are accepted as truth despite what the words really mean. And a pattern of this is carried out for everything else, including very clear scriptures. So now, really words and the Bible only mean what some leader at the moment in some situation tells you that it means. Truth is relative, and the whole supposed motto of the Corps turns from "It Is Written" to "It Is Position". It no longer matters what words mean, what truth says, but only who said it. If you walked up to an average Christian and asked them what does "Receive training in the whole Word" what would they think that entails? A systematic study of the complete Bible? Or something else? If it's not supposed to mean that, then what is the more logical course of action? To change the principle to say what it means? Or to change the meaning and preserve the "history"? Actually the modernized version of those principles that are currently in effect state "receive training in the whole Word, doctirinally and practically...". They strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Become more anal about the little words that don't matter, and leave the glaring lie sitting, because they are so steeped in their own stupid traditions they no longer see it.

and that's the time where all of these can suck the life out of anything they touch. like sts, any large events, any publications, way prod, etc...

Yeah, and funny enough many of the people who stick around talk about "focusing on the positives" and purging their memory of anything but the "good times". Kind of like Stockholm syndrome.

Well, unlike RC priests or virtually any other denominationally trained individual, you certainly can't get any college credit for it. The main problem for becoming accredited is actually attracting people with PhD's to teach. And that would require teaching to more than the 3rd grade level, and allowing some professional or more educationally based dialogue. But that would disrupt the absolute control they want over things.

TWI's version of dualism: "If you don't mind, it doesn't matter". Now that sounds like a Trekkie version of the old Kansas song "Dust In the Wind".

Actually the closest thing to ANY systematic handling of the scriptures was Corps teachings which focused on whole books of the Bible. Many of those were later released as "University of Life". All I am aware of were either church epistles, "leadership" epistles (Timothy/Titus) or Acts. Probably the best part of the Adv. Class focused on textual teachings of OT people in the context of walking with God. But absolutely not, "training in the whole Word". I seriously would question how many Way Corps grads have even read the whole Bible all the way through.

Good for you, pond. Your observations are keen, yet is this how God desires his children to live? Is this what He is talking about as the body of Christ? I love the people, yet my heart holds out with hope for a body where Christ is magnified, where you don't find your average good-hearted Joe on the street who treats you better than the so-called household. I can't go back - those with their eyes blinded by the Pharisees have made a conscious choice to be blind. They will not wake up, and it is not my calling to wake them. That will require the Pure One in His white robes, to illuminate the stain of their garments so they may be ashamed.

Chaos and fate are illusions.

I understand, Jeff. I was watching the documentary on Michael Travesser recently. He proclaimed himself the human embodiment of God, then proceeded to consummate relationships with most of the married women in his camp / compound. One of the women's husband he asked what he thought of his proclamation. The man responded "It was a little overdone". He was kicked out, his wife and child remained. I make snappy comments now to reinforce the ridiculousness of the behavior I tolerated previously, but I wasn't so glib in the actual situations. I would like another go around though. Hahaha.

A simple live with believing and love is much better than one based upon lists. Great observation rascal.

Corps Principals - I have a perspective: CP1 - This is just a basic spiritual goal that every Christian has and grows to fulfill in their walk with Christ. Nothing magical, or leadership restrictive. Of course the changes from the first ones show the overall legalism that has crept in to all of these. CP2 - This one basically is rhetoric, means nothing. TWI does absolutely no comprehensive book by book study of the Bible. For that, go look for a Calvary Chapel church. The training that is received, rather than being based upon "the whole Word", is rather based upon narrowly defined focus determined by BOD and usually restricted to currently written publications like collaterals, classes, etc. Whole topics in the Word, like debt, are ignored and people are focused on "present truth" of what BOD wants to look at. It's one huge lie, but hey if you can't base a ministry on truth, then redefine a lie to be truth works for them. If someone questions it, you can always put them on probation. CP3 - This is a decent overall fitness goal, like those that most people on the planet have. The legaslistic updates have included nutrition, grooming, etc. Basic personal physical goals. Nothing earth-shattering or again restrictive to leadership. The legalists can do wonders with this one, reteach you how to breathe, read labels on cans, etc. CP4 - This one is the most hilarious. Old interp - believe to prosper financially yourself + support the church. New interp - well, since that one is a pipe dream with BOD's edict against mortgages, 2nd job distributorships and most financial tools of raising capital all other businesses employ, now let's make it mean "being happy living very close to poverty". Oh, and you don't need to worry about HQ - they can cut expenses and live off the $25M they have in the bank regardless. Just make sure of the springs in your bobblehead so you don't get cut. CP5 - the legalists have prevailed. "Leaders and workers" isn't good enough - we need "overseers and laborers". This is a Freudian slip on the part of the BOD. They really don't want "leadership", especially "strategic leadership". "Overseers" promotes the correct "lording over" type of attitude they function in. As "laborers" promotes the appropriate attitude you are to have towards them. Especially "day laborers", who are too stupid to ask questions or provide feedback, just do what they are told. Do what you are told, and get us the reports. Teach what we tell you to, hook up to the STS and don't fall asleep, and keep that $$$ flowing in. Where is the "earnest desire and humility"? Where the BOD tells you it is. Who cares if common sense dictates otherwise? We meet once a year to sit down and determine what will be best for your life. Does the job market for volunteers, medical considerations, education, money, or anything else to help the person ever enter in to thinking? Why of course not. They determine the "spiritual goals" i.e. where a person benefits the organization most, and "God will bless them in the other areas". God takes up the slack where the BOD are slackers, apparantly. That must be a new Bible verse. "We don't assign Way Corps where there's no earnest desire." Actually, with the abysmally poor strategic leadership of the organization at the BOD level, driving everything towards fear, mediocrity, dullness, the exact opposite is true - they assign Way Corps virtually everywhere there is little to no earnest desire. Because that's the whole ministry. Tradition built on plagiarism and corruption, heavy-handed rule, legalism, bribery and politics. The blind beating the blind. Physicians of no value. Blind guides. Those who care primarily how they look, not who they help. Pharisees of Pharisees, whom God will call to account at Christ's return.

With my sense of humor I would likely have responded "And yet somehow kicking you in the balls at the moment seems to fit the bill for both".

The fact that something can be explained has zero bearing on the truth of the explanation, the methods used to formulate the explanation, or its inherent value. There are aspects of the mind and of life that are under an individual's control by choice, while there are other aspects that will never be. By virtue of the language we are using to discuss the "authentic" you as opposed to one that is not authentic directly limits what we are discussing to those aspects of the mind and life that are under individual control. If your personal choice is that control over any aspect of these is an illusion, then that's all it is - your personal choice. You can't choose that for me. The matrix was a very entertaining movie, a mental model, and possibly a mind picture compelling enough to be used in examples of comparison like a figure of speech. Yet Neo learned to bend physical laws to his advantage within the matrix.

Actually nothing amazes me more than the overall state of the lack of Christian discernment.

"Wanting" can be looked at in more than one way. There are certain things we "want" that I don't know if I would say are a genetic response so much as base instincts to ensure survival. Maslow's hierarchy of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs) is one way of looking at where "wanting" comes from. And I am not distinguishing the stupid delineation between needs and wants taught in TWI - for the purposes of this discussion those words are interchangeable. A need or a want is something a human pursues after satisfying. As Maslow describes in his writings, the more base things at the bottom of the pyramid are what need to be fulfilled first, then if they are, humans move towards the things up the pyramid. People without food on the table aren't going to be wanting self-actualization, for example. He also describes the interaction of societies, and that as a society progresses and the quality of life raises so that the bottom pyramid needs are consistently met, then you see many of the top portion of the pyramid needs being expressed - like the Rennaisance period and all of the rich art and music from there. One thing interesting to me about this line of thinking and "the authentic you" we're discussing in this thread is that people seeking the authentic you would be more in the upper portion of the pyramid in Maslow's diagram. Self actualization is a higher level need. It involves complex thought, goal setting, and action. TWI actually through its doctrine in many ways keeps people in the lower base levels of Maslow's pyramid. Scrambling to fulfill prescribed numbers of meetings per week / month, living in rentals, free thought being discouraged, large amounts of lower level functions of life being "re-taught" (breathing, exercise, nutrition, dress, etiquette), sending in large portions of income to support the system. People are too poor and occupied to have time to think to the point of inner reflection. Education, job success, and "secular" goals being taught as less important than "spiritual goals", which by translation means becoming more subject to the will of TWI leaders with more time, money, life to dedicate to them. They use Jesus as an example, yet they are not the God he served. People live on a hamster wheel running and running with no time for free thought and liberating self-actualization goals. I'm sure if you would question some of the leadership about this they would respond that the greatest leader is the greatest servant and self actualization comes within a life of service. But then you start to compare their words with how they live, and very little of their lives goes towards actually serving people as opposed to orchestrating ways to control people and for people to serve them. They set themselves up to be the representatives of God, and are served as such, never questioned. Yet they live to control others and worship the positions they themselves hold as the source of that power and control. God's desire is a stark contrast to that in that every person lives up to their individual calling and relationship with Him. This is not in some blind-obedience, self-perpetuating morass of people climbing a Pharisees political ladder, but in the full development of all of the self-actualization of what a person wants to accomplish in their life with God working in them.

I tend to view the "authentic self" as who I want to be, what I want to emphasize in developing myself, and acting in congruence with my innermost beliefs. Perhaps some portion of that is genetic, yet as a thinking rational human being I believe I have a great deal to say in what my "authentic self" is.

While I can completely relate to the feeling expressed here, what I differ with is sitting around missing friends and someplace to go. If these people are not currently your friends because you have chosen to go a different way in your ministry associations, were they ever REALLY your friends? There are plenty of great people out in our societies, and great Christians as well who mostly have never heard of TWI. Develop a hobby, go bowling, darts, shoot pool, do knitting clubs, photography, go back to school, meet new friends, start a supper club, start a babysitting exchange. You know, all those things we used to involve ourselves with in the community under the guise of "moving the Word"? Well, now you can actually enjoy them for the richness of the people they expose you to as opposed to having some kind of ulterior motive or class or lame fellowship to sell them. I will not let the Pharisees dictate my future.

When you are talking about people that use a religion and a group of people to appease their own psychosis, then good enough will never be good enough. Because it's not actually about the quality of service, it's about that complaining and being dissatisfied is what they are after. It gets them wanted and craved attention, enforces rank in the "household", and makes them think they are more spiritual by upholding some kind of legalistic, unrealistic, and wicked standard. It upholds their sick, psychotic view of themselves, which actually is completely contrary to scripture. Usually the complaint is after the fact, as opposed to seeing effort in training before the fact. When I face people like this now, I generally look at 'unreasonable' types of expectations as the person holding them is the one with the problem.

How unbelievably lame. Joyce Meyer when faced with similar kinds of scrutiny and questions publicized her financial books for any who want to look at them. I think you can download them off a link on her main website. Notice the basic difference of character there of the leadership of two Christian ministries. Yet TWI still wants to hold some kind of elitist view of themselves as the greatest Christian ministry since the first century. Ummm, sorry guys. You don't even measure up to your peers. Except in your ability to cover things up and make excuses.

And so later his just penance was to move large numbers of boxes without question or complaint at a minimum-wage salary? What can Brown do for you?

We should do a sequel video with a martindale impersonater flipping burgers and damaging one, and a dude with a 10th corps nametag confronting him on it. Or better yet, a manager speaking Espanol and someone interpreting the confrontation.