chockfull

I was devoted to the terrorism in TWI for over 20 yrs. Now I am free. How long have you been devoted to being happily brainwashed?

Except for the ones that aren't. And they have titles and positions.

Kind of the major problem there is that the type of debt that makes the most sense is that which is most externally obvious. Mortgage debt to advance a long-term financial investment, loans for education or business origination, those are the types of debt most advantageous to people. The worst type of debt - credit card debt, is also that which is easiest to conceal and that which most of the Corps probably have. They can't very well buy a house without someone knowing. Same with student loans. So they have to disagree in private and conceal their consumer debt, all the while sending money in to TWI. I've heard several people on TWI payroll in this type of situation, living below their spending because they can't get a reasonable salary from TWI. The only ones who make a corporate level salary live in a little podunc town where they don't need it, and are paying cash for homes there off of their salaries. So they have debt. I've heard a couple hint around to people with money that if someone would just give them money they could be free. When you start looking into the finances of TWI, that's where you see a lot of the evil. Money and position - as bad or worse than any corporate fiasco you see.

I've found out that it is healthy sometimes to have an argument with people. IMO it usually happens that way when I feel they aren't listening. If they shut down me, then it comes out somewhere. But it wasn't like that in the Way. They value compliace, and obedience. There is no place for your voice there.

That teaching was a complete travesty of research logic. Large leaps from OT to NT. Rules about how "some" laws do translate from OT to NT but others do not. I guess that the holy rubberstamp of the BOD determines which ones are still in effect. But it certainly was a great kiss@$$ piece of work to advance Rico's career, position, salary, etc. Funny how JC came to fulfill the law in love, and the fruit produced by these clowns is the exact opposite - greater legalism and bondage. It's funny now reading Romans on the "owe no man anything" verse, how just reading it in context is abundantly clear once you remove yourself from the leaven of the Pharisees. Living freely and simply is just giving respect where due, honor, etc. Nothing to do with reporting your financial condition to your overseer. Oh, and that's another funny twisting of scriptures in this TWI administration - there used to be all this talk about "gift" ministries. Now all you hear is "ruling" ministries, overseers, language of bondage.

Peace to you and solace, brother Roy.

I think there are current region coords that do this kind of thing with relatives. You ask TWI about it and their response is they aren't currently doing any work on the topic as it's not priority. In other words, they are run by their lawyers still who warn them about the legal and financial exposure that would go with changing policy due to Loy boy's antics. They are too afraid to change it because people who were "counseled" (forced through fear of excommunication) to sell houses at a loss during a bad time in real estate would sue their collective behinds. They have no brains. They have no guts.

I'm sure the trauma of all that was very tangible. The practical side of me however finds some comedy in it a lot like 4th grade insults, disguised with spiritual authority. "I saw you as a doo doo head." "No I saw you as a 3 legged dog." "No ....." "Waaaah I saw her as being very mean". FWIW I see them as a bunch of 'tards making up stories to garner more power to themselves. With people that stupid, why should anyone allow themselves to be placed under that spiritual authority? As far as truth, it reminds me of a few lines from "Stand on Zanzibar" - Art? He was a guy I knew back in Des Moines in '86. Nice guy, little dull. There's all these people running around taking his name in vain.

Hmmm. Wierwille & Bullinger. Let's contrast. Bullinger - scholar, legit doctorate, smart guy. progressive thought for the 1700's. Wierwille - not so much. doctorate from correspondance school located in a house in Manitou Springs CO. his only progressive thought was preaching to hippies so that his loose morals didn't stand out so much.

you know, I don't think so, excie. I think people remember very well. I think all someone needs to do to "find their voice" is to keep posting here. It evens out over time. It's kind of human nature to attack that which is new and different and that does happen, especially if someone comes in swinging so to speak. Under a cruel system of religion like TWI, that happens a whole lot more, and many of us have experienced it. So here kind of in a reverse manner people react strongly to someone perceived as supporting TWI in some fashion. sure we all could be more tolerant and less argumentative sometimes. but that kind of stuff goes in waves. people get in attack mode then in sympathy mode. they get out of it though. there's a lot more value here than just spouting off then running off.

What does it take to realize the MOG is really scum? From my experience, way too d@mn much!!!!!!

The use of the word "wonderful". As in, our "wonderful" BOD. Everything is "wonderful". A corollary to that asking someone how they are and they respond "as He is". And, "understanding the heart" regarding a policy. They are so totally Stepford wives that when you wake up they start sounding like Pollyanna on crack.

The overall layout is better than the last one. It at least has a reasonable visual template. The biggest faux paus is the domain name. Shouldn't they have way.com, way.org, way.info? They dragged their heels on technology so long they lost the opportunity to buy their own domain name. way.com - a URL shortner (a website that actually provides a service) way.org - a religous website that sells books and drama (competition to TWI) way.info - looks to be registered by a German search engine company

Oh, the blue book chapter 1 teaching. Of course that has to be the #1 most repeated teaching in the whole TWI. Actually, it's funny, because I remember reading Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power of Positive Thinking" around the same timeframe, and that had a lot of similar concepts, except a lot more incidents and it was better written. I can hardly bear to think of it. I'd teach the concept of believing from almost any other perspective now. "A camera offers an appropriate analogy. First you focus on the tool you are imitating from TWI. Then you become them."

brainfixed, are you profiling me again? just kidding.

Doesn't this so-called "teaching" by this false minister make you want to go up to him and say, "So if, as a result of your teaching, I stick my foot so far up your @$$ that you $h1t shoelaces for a month, is that your believing or mine?"

Yep. Sure did. I commented on it because I could relate to it personally. I thought similarly initially. And went through a similar transition process. Now I believe it is a common transition process as opposed to something unique we experienced. Some of this whole thread seems to be about that. The shock portion of facing the truth. That's good to know regarding your legal background. I'm guessing what I wrote on libel is relatively accurate - I did do a consult with an attorney on that a while ago, which was where I formed my opinions I stated on it. If I was completely off base I'm sure you'd correct me, and please do or add more if you care to. -cf

Twinky, this is an interesting perspective. Certainly people might view comments posted here as 'libelous'. However, with TWI's propensity for legal action, and the action they took to shut down Waydale, and the subsequent opening of Greasespot, if there were statements made here that were ACTUALLY legally libel, don't you think that TWI's leaders/lawyers would have taken some kind of action on it? I'm sure they would love to shut this place down just like they did Waydale, if they had any legal way to do so. I'm no lawyer, but from a legal defense perspective, one of the greatest defenses to libel is truth as a defense. Expected privacy can also be a defense, however with public figures like the BOD there is not the same expectation of privacy. Actually it's interesting - many of the lies they tell about members and spread around to their people to get them to disassociate with members actually have more legal grounds to be sued on libel charges than anything I've seen posted here - because with general members there is a greater expectation of privacy. With all that said, many times there is no way to "ease yourself into" waking up. It was a "rude awakening" for me when I realized the truth. My perception is that sometimes people come in with the view you describe - shocked at all the 'libelous' statements. They post or respond from that perspective. Many times they reflect a naieve or deluded perspective in that. When someone contradicts them they get upset. The simple fact is that they are hearing things they don't want to hear about TWI leadership so are upset by it regardless of it being the truth or not. And they transfer that to people posting here, thinking they are "unthankful, ungrateful" etc. So what do we do? Sugarcoat everything for "newbies" until they can handle it? I'll guarantee you if things run their course and the TWI minions turn on them, defame them, cast them out they will be ill equipped to adjust. I personally have had enough of people deceiving me with nice words and fair speeches. One more thing though - I think if people stick around and tell someone that they are PO'ing them that it all gets worked out.

what did we do? what does "find their voice" mean?

They couldn't find something new in the Bible if it literally jumped up and bit them on their large bohunkus. They're too d@mn busy making "new policy".

potato, it's all good. I went to see a psychologist myself after leaving, because I had insurance, realized it was an emotional event, and thought it would be better to look to advice from someone who was specifically educated in those areas as opposed to the "spritual" charlatans I previously listened to. Those talk sessions were great. The dr. didn't specifically go into the "diagnosis" and "treatment" as a dramatic label, but certainly mentioned that what I'd been through was similar to PTSD. The emotional trauma that's inflicted upon people by these false ministers is very real and tangible. It's measurable through the science of psychology, even though that science is relatively young compared to many others. I don't think any of that means you're "wired differently". I think PTSD is a common symptom that you will find in people leaving TWI. I bet even the Asberger's can probably be attributed to suppressing the expression of common emotion over years such as is common in environments like TWI where you're afraid to speak up or express yourself. But I'm not the dr. Just enjoy the meetings. I've got a big notebook full of great notes. I also think that we were conditioned to look down upon the psychology fields as inferior to "spiritual". I disagree with that - I think you go to a doctor when you have the flu physically - you go to a psychologist when you are sick emotionally. The attitude and conditioning taught is just one more element of that egotistical spiritual elitism found in TWI. They think they're the shiznit, but aren't even up to mediocre levels of competancy the world has.

There you go again, projecting. I'm not "really riled" by your opinion. But you seem pretty riled that 4 or 5 people seem to think differently than you do. In my opinion the evil was always there, and we were duped. In spite of that God probably worked in our lives for the positive during that time. But the point is if I don't recognize being duped then the next charlatan that comes along that can stir up positive emotions and actions has just as good of a chance of duping me.

I'm sure if you had a website where victims of RC inquisitors frequented you would hear more about that. Here there are TWI victims. The problem with marginalizing evil and saying it's the same as all the other evil people experienced in the past is the same argument people use to stay involved with TWI as opposed to voting with their feet. I don't like evil, I vote with my feet, and I tell others about it. Have they asked for forgiveness? I'm not aware of one single case where TWI leadership even comes close to admitting they are wrong. They blame the followers while perpetuating their sin. While we can forgive them we also have a Christian duty to warn others so they are not fooled. Wise as serpents harmless as doves. I'm appreciative that TWI involvement helped me keep my head in the Bible - good stuff there to read. I think the rest of your statement is a straw man argument. Nobody is saying we were "duped automatons". Yes we were duped. Yes we probably committed sin and perhaps hurt others due to our support of sinful men and women. Being duped and emotionally bribed is one way people give up freedom of will. You were duped. You are the same - ignoring that fact does not help one heal. The fallacy of logic that is common to every single "get over it" poster I've seen around here is that they mistake the Christian duty of warning others of evil with wallowing in the past, staying hurt and staying angry. These types of people obviously don't read the Bible. You read through any of the prophets in the OT, and they pretty much are speaking out against evil throughout the book. This argument is as ludicrous as saying "You know, Ezekiel, I think you have anger problems and are focusing on the past too much". This mindset smacks of still being duped and not seeing it. You have an answer, yet you still do not understand.

Followed by "Ain't Talkin Bout Love", "Eruption", and then "Runnin With the Devil" ????? Now this thread has been properly Van Halenized.

I've read a couple of scientific books on sleep and dreams and the conclusion there seems to be that sleep is the way the body / soul / mind repairs itself every 24 hours. With the content of dreams if you look at it like the mind and emotions repairing themselves what you dream is simply thought threads and emotions that need to be sorted through for emotional / mental balance.