chockfull

You know, in a certain perspective, I could say this. Yet however, upon deeper reflection, it really had not a thing to do with the Way, and everything to do with God. Yes, I believe God led me in and led me out. The experiences I had were due to my trust in God, and have not ceased upon exiting a flawed hypocritical organization. Suffice it to say, even within a flawed organization, miracles can happen. Miracles depend on the individual and believing, not the integrity of an organization.

An interesting thing to examine is what vows did TWI ever make to any individual? I've heard more than once leadership saying "the ministry owes us nothing but the Word, but we owe the ministry everything". In every godly vow, there is an equal amount of commitment upon each party to fulfill the vow. In a marriage vow, each partner commits to keeping their promise, upholding their portion, giving their all. Yet TWI expects vows to be made to them (and they pretend to stand in God's place for this), yet they vow nothing themselves. This is an arrangement where someone is getting used. It's very convenient for the people requiring vows yet they themselves are required nothing. James 5:12 speaks of this: But most of all, my brothers and sisters, never take an oath, by heaven or earth or anything else. Just say a simple yes or no, so that you will not sin and be condemned. The OT law consisted of God vowing a vow to take care of His people and they vowing to have Him as their God and no other. Yet in the NT this type of thinking is discouraged. A parallel verse is Jesus teaching this in Matt 5:34. One more area where people are getting fooled.

Awesome!!! Good for you, cheranne!

You know, that Way Corps Ning site really is only a place where a whole bunch of people put up pictures of their families. A few are getting together and going on a cruise. Some people connect again, but for the most part there's no real fellowship there any more than there ever was in TWI. Any communication there is always shrouded over by the stigma of "what are people doing regarding their spritual life" and if they are still involved, what position they have. So John R keeps controversy out, and people talk nicey nicey with no depth. You're not missing anything over there. And all that rhetoric about people living in trenches forming a bond is a bunch of horse puckey. Sure people who went through training together putting up with all sorts of BS get close at that time. But that doesn't last either. And once people leave 99% of the time nobody contacts them ever. They are shunned. Sheesh, life has enough trenches to forge through now without needing to live in the foxholes of the past like an out of sorts Vietnam vet with PTSD.

Bravo, Mark!!!!

Haha - just goes to show that brainwashing can even overcome self preservation instincts. I say if the ship goes down, climb in the d@mn lifeboat.

I think all the people thought I would be devestated or broken up over not having "fellowship" with them any more. I figured if I left and people "shunned" me, then they never were REALLY my friends anyway. Who needs fair weather friends? They're as worthless as people who hang around you for handouts, or free babysitting, or whatever other selfish reason for being takers people use. So I figured I needed some new friends. And when I found some I discovered that the "fellowship" there wasn't based upon obligation, politics, position, or any other false reason. It was real. And it's a whole lot better way to live. So no I don't miss the so-called "fellowship", because it was a lie. People can "love-bomb" anyone for selfish personal or group reasons. That's the lying lips and flattering tongue that Proverbs talks about.

It doesn't really apply to kids, but I do love to watch Cesar Milan The Dog Whisperer. Some of his techniques are really cool. The funny part in this discussion is that he never does anything remotely similar to the beating of children with a wooden spoon when training dogs. So VPW's techniques are treating children more cruelly than dogs. I'm sure VPW wanted to train kids up with a pack mentality, though. Follow the pack leader unquestioning. I think just for fun and kicks we ought to come up with claims like the old "green card" for PFAL, except containing reality as opposed to hype. We could call it the "red card", after soccer. Benefits on the "red card": 1) Builds obedience by treating your kids worse than an animal 2) Improves denial by hardening your conscience against scripture and common sense 3) Trains you how to control others 4) Learn to treat women like objects 5) Learn how to research the Bible to make it say whatever the BOD's current policy is. 6) Builds slavery by being under a landlord all your life. 7) Teaches you to opportunistically seek the death of wealthy relatives. 8) Improves teamwork by killing any sense of individualism. There's a start.

very astute post, brainfixed. +100!!!

I spent so many years so-called "serving" God by running classes, fellowships, meetings, on and on the hamster wheel goes. I think God is more pleased with me spending time with my kids, with loving my wife, with really helping my friends. He doesn't need someone bringing him coffee. So much of all that is a self-perpetuating system that builds elitism. I don't miss it.

(takes cane, tips hat to the little lady, totters upstairs to go to bed. after all when you're this old you need to take lots of naps)... no worries.

Well it's a little different when you get married. A healthy libido is a good thing, but building a life with someone is better. Doing that kind of stuff is a real betrayal to spouse, children, etc. It messes people up. Oh ya, me and Moses when we were talking about "our generation" the other night we sorted all this out and then ended the convo with "ya feel me bxtches?" Geez now I feel old. I've still got a few good years left sonny. On the class stuff - you know helping and serving is all good, but sometimes I think I started to feel like I was living to serve a system. And that system doesn't really care about people, they care about their positions and power. Now I don't have all the activity of serving I did before but I kind of look for it where I feel God lead.

Cool. I've heard of those. I was led into it from secondhand teachings off of Oral Roberts ministry by someone in my high school youth fellowship. Funny Oral's teachings worked for me but not for VPW even up on the stage. Actually I think that receiving that privately is easier and more personal.

That's actually pretty funny...

If you start on the main www.greasespot.com website and look at the left hand nav - the links under "Waydale Documents" have references to a lot of this.

I SIT before I came to TWI and still do. My relationship with God and His Son Jesus Christ predates my involvement with TWI and it has not changed since leaving. He led me in, and He led me out, IMO much like the children of Israel and Egypt.

Here is the other side of the story, and that which your coordinator probably in some sense knows is there but refuses to face it. If you think you are being a traitor, ask yourself to whom? Not to Jesus Christ. He would want us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. You're not disobeying God, his Word. Just people. And although they mean well and are sincere and loving, they can fool you. Anyway, sorry I was arguing with you. I didn't realize you were that young.

LCM acting like Tiger Woods. And the woman (among many) that he cheated with and her husband suing the Way. There were many many more, but only 2 lawsuits. He was kicked out, but unlike any other Corps couple with marriage problems like that, his wife Donna got to stay there, stay Corps, and now is the Chief Administrative Officer. Rosie covered it all up, gathered the power, and took over. There are many many stories there. Some people have tried doing polls of that kind of thing. Many pursue Christianity in more mainstream circles, some join other offshoots, some call themselves atheists. I don't know numbers.

After the Allen lawsuit and the sealed amount of payout that TWI paid to Paul and Fern Allen which is likely in the millions there was a subsequent lawsuit brought by TWI against their insurance company which Rosie claimed paid out the settlement and that it didn't come out of pockets of TWI memebers. In that document was disclosed the amount they pay for insurance for their BOD. And that is out of the pockets of the ABS of members. So in essence after the Allen settlement TWI's insurance company dropped them like a hot potato. And from what I could read in that document the insurance company was not going to pay out on the next lawsuit. That was the reason for TWI's lawsuit against them. Go find the document on the web in the court systems. It's out there. But that wasn't anything the BOD ever told anyone, even the Corps.

There is no such goal of this site. It is simply an uncensored (mostly) forum. The only thing censored are personal attacks on other posters. I am not making anything up. You can find the truth if you seek for it. But the thing is, once you find it you can't unfind it.

And try as I might, I still don't find "pity" in the fruit of the spirit.

I don't want anything from you. I'm just participating in a forum.

Oh there are plenty of people on this site that have verifiable firsthand information that TWI doesn't seem to share openly with its masses. I finally came to realize people don't hide behavior that is godly, they hide that which is ungodly. But one day it will be shouted from the rooftops.

Right. And already you're calling me pet names why do you ask? you married?

And don't forget the title of which you are most proud: a heckler.