chockfull

Yeah, I taught the WAP class, intermediate, DTA live a number of times, and what I noticed is the closer to the syllabus I stuck the more I underwhelmed myself. However, the times I would blow off the syllabus and start to tell stories the better it was and the students weren't sleeping with their eyes open. IMO anything with a pulse is vastly superior to PFAL (and the filmed WAP class).

In a basement, in a closet, in the sugar shack in the woods. Myracle was pushing hard to get ordained by LCM. When that plan failed, she and her lover left and faded into the woodwork, only to be visited by Rosalie surely for the purpose of ensuring their silence.

Nice work, John, exposing the error and futility of V2P2 and his small farm ministry legacy.

The simple answer is they don't know about it. How is this possible? The same way that VP and LCM's escapades escaped detection for decades. They hide the behavior. They hide the relationship. They don't live together. They aren't seen in public much together. There are several threads around here putting together all of the factual pieces that highlight pretty clear evidence of this. TWI members would largely think we are possessed in bringing this up and putting together those facts. However, they are brainwashed and superstitious. I have seen what happens to people who question RFR about the 2 supposedly recovered lesbians who lived in a single bedroom in the basement of her house for years. Rosalie gives the public answer "they said they were delivered". Then she proceeds to target the person asking questions and have any responsibility they have stripped away from them, and the leadership by where they are are directed they are possessed, so they are blackballed. There are little slip-ups they have made over years that a few individuals have noted and brought out here. RFR going on vacation to visit the lesbians that lived in her basement. RFR and Donna going on vacation and staying at a place where someone in the audience where Donna let it slip knew the place and knew they only had one single bed room available. People walking up on them where they were locked in an embrace in a parked car. Little things like that.

Want to hear something funny? In a way I did experience some "believing preparation" that "prevented" things for the Y2K end of the world chicken littles. At the job I was at, we did an exercise where one weekend we advanced all the clocks on all our computer systems to 1/2/2000, just to see what would break. I think we had like two very minor issues, and everything else just worked. So even being a brainwashed little minion at that point I knew Craig was mental regarding all those rants. Sometimes it's the little things that defeat the paranoid rantings of psychos for you.

Does John Lynn really have to look past the mirror and his bad combover and cheesy lines to find hypocrisy?

Leave it to the Way to preserve the mass wedding feel without the masses. This way, no matter how few people there are, you are sure to get the message that you are just a number.

Honestly it took me observing through 3 jobs and 10 years to come to the conclusion that evil was a pattern as opposed to believing more like what you said. What a waste of my life...

I've been there. I've rationalized hanging on to my own detriment. The conclusion I've come to is that it's one thing to waste your own life on that - you make the decision, you deal with the consequences. However, wasting your kids life on that is in my opinion where it becomes criminal. Thankfully a lot of TWI raised kids are smarter than their parents and are seeing through the sham and saying no to the BS, running for the hills and building themselves healthy lives. Just ask yourself, of the lady semi-couple (Rozie and Donna) running TWI, how many of their kids are following in their leadership example? Hmmmm. None? Rozie marked and avoided her kids so she didn't have to deal with them and could cut them out of her life. Donna's kids couldn't wait to get away from HQ and away from all that garbage. I mean the healthiest thing to happen to TWI would be if some of the minions would grow a pair and throw Jezebel over the wall figuratively. But like all practiced dictators like Hitler and Stalin, Rozie is adept at sniffing dissention and immediately axes people before they can amass power to do that. What a paranoid life. What a sad existence for all involved.

In my experience TWI's leadership embodies the worst of human nature. Politics, religion, and the business world, if you take all of the worst-cased scenarios with ego, power-mongering, throwing people under busses, taking credit for others work, extreme micromanagement, slander, libel, and self-aggrandizement, you will find all of that and more in TWI. And it got worse for me the longer I was in. I kept finding myself wondering why it was that I was treated much better in the secular business realm than I was by TWI leaders. Just one scenario I could understand as you could have a good job and a bad TWI leader. However, to see that time after time and leader after leader to me showed a pattern. Even the bad jobs I had with the worst managers were still much better than what I faced in TWI. The people that were being promoted up, given more responsibility and titles were worse and worse as time went on. Those that were the most two-faced excelled the most. One face of absolute compliance and @$$ kissing, and the other face of abusing those under them. Sheer hypocrisy. It reminded me of Jesus parable of the man forgiven a debt and abusing those under him that owed him. And the closer you get to the top leadership, the more blind people are, and the more corrupt people are. You know people by their fruit. A Christian organization that produces evil fruit is a sham. TWI is a sham. Its leaders are a sham. The worst people rise to the top. They have the most ego, and are the most abusive. They are 100% deluded, as their own self image and that of their fellow leaders is that they are the "best in the world". They are pathetic. They are losers.

WOW - that sounds like some of what we learned as that "good ole common horse sense". The kind that VP's brother Harry used to talk about, when he wasn't feeling up young hotties. God what came out of these guys mouths and what their actions said couldn't be any more opposite.

Or he is deliberately trying to remove evidence that could be traced and verified by a third party. If he published the man's name, then someone could ask the man if this account was true. VP was probably afraid that he would deny his account of the events, so went with the "so-and-so" route, but conveniently kept in the "member of Parliament in New Delhi" so that all of us youngsters would be unduly impressed. VP's accounts of major life-changing events seem to change with his storytelling over time. Especially his accounts of revelation. This is highly suspect, especially when scrutinized by those who have seen the genuine article. I know personally that the details of my accounts of revelation and/or healing do not change over time - they have the same strange, seemingly random, and insignificant details they did years ago when they happened. I would definitely say from my experience and the facts surrounding VP that I believe he fabricated the larger part of the stories he told us over the years in teachings, books, and classes.

Along with the rest of VP's bravado claims and bragging, this also is void of any substance. Graham pretty much always worked alongside local church organizations, in a cooperative manner. Those converted in Graham's teachings were referred to local Christian churches. These churches, with mainstream beliefs and practices, were much more able to cooperate and collaborate together with visiting preachers. TWI was not even on Graham's radar, other than being noted as a cult or non-Christian organization to avoid. I think in Elena Whiteside's book where VP gives his account of being led into speaking in tongues by J.E. Stiles, whose holy spirit book VP later plagiarized, VP attended an Oral Roberts event in a stadium, where Oral called him up on stage and tried to lead VP into tongues. VP spoke in Greek then Hebrew, and fooled Oral. It was proclaimed from the stage a success, but VP said he knew he was a fraud. I'm paraphrasing this from memory. So the conclusion drawn was that Oral had interaction with what he termed as a "Midwest preacher who was led into tongues". Outside of this, VP was small potatoes and it is doubtful he even made it onto Oral Roberts radar.

Jesus teachings of knowing people by their fruit the same as you know an apple tree by the apple fruit is how you know. TWI's members are poor and enslaved, they all bite and devour one another, and they unquestionably follow leaders who are micromanagers and extremely controlling. There are sex scandals, alchohol abuse, domestic mistreatment, affairs, people causing suicides, plenty of slander and libel, and this just scratches the surface. Where's the place in the ministry with the highest incidents of teenage alchoholism and abuse? Right there at HQ. When you see that kind of fruit, there lies a false apostle or a false prophet.

This is probably one of those things that looking back on it tells more than you think. A "worldwide" teaching auditorium, yet it's front is obscured. That encapsulates TWI. What they really believe is completely obscured by their public relations image and front they put up. What they really believe is narrow-minded, based on an unquestionable political hierarchy, and hurtful to people.

And they are his bastard children.

you know, the guy you talked to doesn't have that different of a story than I do. I never heard one inkling of sexual indiscretions or what went on in the "initiated" circles up until Martindale's first lawsuit. why? maybe because people hide inappropriate behavior? hmmm. even then I toed the party line and rationalized it away. however, over time, more and more things started to not add up. Martindale, in the "VP and Me" teachings that were taught in the Corps, talked about how VP had told him he needs to "loosen up" in the sexual areas if he ever wanted to be an effective minister. I listed to Ralph Dubovsky's sharing (which is still available to hear on Greasespot Radio), where he told truths about the patriarch days and the "yak twig" consisting of all of the BOD, where it was open knowledge that some women were passed around that circle for sex. I personally talked with a couple of Wierwille's grandchildren and learned that growing up they were raised with the teaching that men would run around on their spouses. I read Kristen Skedgell's book "Losing the Way". Martindale learned his behavior. He was the perfect imitator, which was why he succeeded the presidency - Wierwille said that publicly many times. Martindale learned to be a sexual predator. Also, VP would prey upon young women who he knew had sexual abuse in their backgrounds. It was quite obvious he viewed himself as their savior and thought that having sex with him was supposed to heal them. this was a delusional vision of VP that caused acts furthering the adversary's motives. oh, another point of logic. VP was married back in his college days. this is documented in Mrs. W's book "Born Again to Serve". the hippie days in the '70's were long after that. VP already had 5 children by that point. so no, sexual relations he had in the 70's in the "free love" movement were adultery according to the Bible. Oh, and now that we're talking about adultery, one more point. A guy who currently runs an offshoot wrote a research paper as a member of the research department which you can find on this site. it basically is a fundamental word study on the word "adultery" throughout the Bible - not rocket science by any means. He was fired for presenting this research by Wierwille. so the picture starts to emerge of a megalomaniac who sins and destroys anyone who confronts him on it. with your friend it certainly is a common knee-jerk reaction when people present uncomfortable truths to react by saying they work for the adversary. i don't post here out of a love for the adversary. in contrast, i post here to keep people from being sucked into a damaging cult and waste years of their lives building on a false organization. Paul said you cannot build a foundation except upon Jesus Christ, the chief cornerstone. well, all this hidden sin, predation, and garbage is not a foundation you can build upon. you can't put new wine into old wineskins. neither can you build a godly organization on the shoulders of people who are corrupt. yes, God can deliver anyone from any sin. however, a man who is supposed to be a minister? who continually chooses evil acts and preys upon his followers? it's the man's continual choices he made that seared his conscience, not God's lack of ability to save him. oh, and one more thing. demands that rape victims post their pictures, personal information, and twig history on the internet just so that your stubborn obnoxious self will believe it is highly delusional, insensitive, and makes you part of the problem not part of the solution. those are the exact same tactics rapists use to put pressure on their victims so they won't testify against them.

even more than that, many of us who post here have centered our lives around what VP preached for decades and attempted to live, move, and prosper under his teachings. God has honored our hearts and done things for us in spite of the corruption of the organization. over time we've come face to face with that darkness within the organization, and moved in different directions. in my opinion, those who remain and have been around all have had to "sell out" to rationalize the evil within the org and still support it. i could not justify doing that. it's not that we don't believe God could pull off phenomena related to the weather. it's that after examining TWI and the fruit of the organization, including the fruit of VP's life in its entirety, it's far more likely something that vp made up in retrospect to try and foster his reputation among the young hippies as "The Teacher" or sole pipeline to the heart of God. it's recorded here on this site vp's organizational freeze out tactics and takeover tactics with the original fellowships in the Groovy Christian eras - both on the West Coast and East Coast with Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner. in fact, reading that today, to me it seems much more similar to Joseph Smith's elaborate tale talking to the angel Moroni that founded the Mormons than it does a genuine Christian experience.

excathedra who posts here was one of wierwille's victims. if you use the search function you can find her story. there are a number of others if you take the time to look. however, you may not take the time, and probably won't believe them. in my experience, people asking for firsthand accounts around here are looking to discount them. TWI's evil is very real and very documented. Also, if you look up John Juedes, a mainstream denominational Christian pastor, he has plenty of documented stories. He outwardly opposes TWI so plenty of people have contacted him over the years. i personally know a person whose first marriage ended because of infidelity surrounding martindale's harem and numerous indiscretions. there are also lawsuits on file and transcripts from depositions from them available to read. pressure from these lawsuits forced twi to settle two lawsuits for undisclosed amounts (but damages were in the millions in the filed paperwork). i'm sorry if the truth of the matter is shocking to you, but that makes it no less the truth.

IMO that article is filled with lies. They say with their mouth ... "we show forth kindness even in the face of ingratitude". However, what actually occurs is exactly the opposite. They show ingratitude in the face of kindness, especially towards their own people. In fact, that was about all I faced, in spite of years of self-sacrificing service to further their goals. Ingratitude. Holier-than-thou attitudes. Attacking any little thing they could get their slimy little paws on. Biting and devouring one another. A bunch of pride over titles and positions. Stubbornness. Resistance to change. Resistance to listen to Bible verses. No, an attitude of ungratefulness exists towards their people. They are just a means to an end.

Aw geez HighWay, now you've got me dreaming about food. Mmmm. Fruit yogurt cup. Mmmmm. No, I don't remember the name. But I will trade you an apple for half a ham sandwich.

Nice poems. Very expressive. Of course that means we'll have to have a haiku thread as well as a limerick thread.

Girl meets girl. Girl's husband is a big cheating meanie. Girls fall in love. Husband gets fired, moves out, and gets a part-time job at at UPS. Girls live happily ever after, and run off with the cash. The end. I do movie summaries too. :biglaugh:

Now there's a village where everyone is the village idiot.

This is like hitting yourself with a stupid stick regularly. Now there's a picture that just says "fashion statement". Brilliant wihout a clue yet you listen to him regularly. Apparently you are most comfortable with walking contradictions. With you being in TWI, of course that makes sense. Wow - if you'd just replace "millions" with "a hundred or so" and change all the gender adverbs, you could be talking about Rosalie. Now it becomes clear why you are targeting him. Simple envy. A mic to millions, making tens of millions a year. You are jealous of his influence. I don't know why that guy did that either. Why did he let himself go so far? Yet strangely, I am not uncertain or fearful. However, I might be more motivated to strap on a weapon going out in public. John sounds like he knows by experience the personal choice of being stupid. Of course if the guy had a support circle of people around him there would have been a lot less likelihood of him cracking like he did. Oh, BTW that sentence on power-filled circle makes no sense whatsoever. What are you referring to? There is so much BS wayspeak in that sentence you can't even identify the subject. A power-filled circle of Stability of Our Times, God's Word, and horse sense? Hey Einstein, ever consider that one of the problems there is that nobody did care about this man? When he was going off the deep end he cut off communications with his friends. And nobody cared. Or they would have done one of the things you mention. Which probably would have sent him off the deep end sooner. Yeah maybe if he just had a Sunday Teaching Service CD that would have made all the difference. I mean, that way he might have shot himself out of sheer disgust or boredom and never made it to the theater. Yes, we all need a Savior. I use capitals on that word to distinguish it from the dashboard variety that you can use for your own purposes. And we all need friends. Real friends. You know, not like TWI friends, who distance themselves from you the further the proximity of your lips grow from Rosalie's @$$.