chockfull

Originally I thought maybe someone on set design from a "Planet of the Apes" movie. But after seeing the up close quality, that wouldn't cut it. It's more like a kindergarten teacher trying to design a class poster for a "Planet of the Apes" movie. All of the human figures look a bit off. Actually, now that I think about those implications, never mind. The poster depicts The Way perfectly.

I would say it is a mixed bag. At the lowest level leaders are controlled. And the better ones try and shield followers from that impact. Has it changed to produce a "kinder gentler front"? Yes rfr has done that and open vicious swearing confrontations are no more mostly. Now she meets with high level leaders behind closed doors and fires people or kicks them out. But there is still the same viciousness of intent and devastation to people's lives. 98% of the people who went through their 4 year training program are no longer willing to even associate with the Way. Those that do are in a demoted state. What other church has even close to those negative numbers? And this is nothing to brag about under a many are called few are chosen false bravado. This is a ministry sucking the life and youth out of people then throwing them on a trash pile when they are middle aged to older with life responsibilities. There are so many case studies of this. For example go look up previous VP s on Linked In. Low level coordinators are currently singled out whether they have debt or not and if they do have a diminished title. Previously they weren't allowed to lead with a mortgage due to the Way's extreme doctrine on debt. the way will always present a kind gentle front. Otherwise they wouldn't exist at all. But you can't mask the evil at the top for very long. The wizard behind the mask slips, exposes something or makes a comment revealing their true intentions. And people leave after that. They realize the leaders of the organization only care about themselves and protecting their little kingdom at all costs. And make no mistake they are shunned when they leave, instructed to do so by leadership. Every bit as dramatic as an Amish shunning. But people will lie about that all day long. Now you could make a case for some higher numbers of people leaving, but 98%? That is more like Proverbs telling you wisdom cries out from the streets. But youth seldom listens to wisdom without personal impacting experience. So imo all you can do is keep loving them and communicate and be there to pick up the pieces when they fall. Like a good parent. A non way brained parent. A parent more like my own parents and less like the parent rfr is.

the woman in charge of TWI - rfr - is someone who was a schoolteacher, divorced, has abandoned/ turned over her own children to Satan with no further communication with them, was known to participate in the adultery and free sex behavior in training, has hidden a same-sex adulterous relationship with the 2nd president's wife with which she ascended the presidency by including disposing of the former president, and is known to be an absolute OCD control freak. Whatever someone's beliefs in the Bible are and/or need for a church family are, associating with this woman in any way shape or form is probably not a good idea.

To me many of the vulnerabilities that a cult exploits is just youth. A young mind is maturing at least until age 25. Humans in their 20's also are known to be very ideal based, hopeful, looking forward to their life and changing the world, looking for a cause, looking for a circle of reliable friends, looking for support systems, looking for a deeper meaning to life. There wasn't a whole lot that would have talked me out of a decision like the one Jessie made when I was young like that. And you have local leaders love-bombing them and challenging logic saying "just go see for yourself and prove God in your life". I'm so thankful my parents stayed in contact and remained as loving as they did throughout the many years filled with moving around the country, prioritizing everything else in life over them due to my 'spirituality', throwing away opportunity after opportunity, and being very hypocritical and unloving to them. Since I've left TWI we have a much better relationship, probably mostly due to me apologizing for being an @$$. If Jessie would do some research on this site, after time she would probably come to a different conclusion than the one she holds to now. However, realistically she probably won't. The leaders will tell her we are all possessed and disgruntled, and you don't need that negativity in your life, any lie to keep people from being freed from their grasp. TWI is so desperate for people right now that Jessie is being used by local leadership to prove to their overseers Christian growth in their area. They have this vision and direction quota system and all. Unfortunately, speaking from experience, the young adult mind has a real hard time believing sincere people will lie to them and use them. And some of these leaders are so deluded that they just push all the cult evidence to the side even though they know it and they make up more lies, like "the ministry used to be like that, but it's kinder and gentler now". Jesus said you can't put old wine into new wineskins. You can't force a ministry based on practices of adultery and plagiarism into morality by whitewashing the outside and "Pollyanna" ing it.

Psalm 49:15 certainly shows a knowledge of the concept of salvation from the writer's perspective. Psalms actually is filled with more. I'm not sure how you would consider Gen. 5:24 with Enoch - walked with God and God took him - kind of indicates a salvation there. But no "gospel" yet. What about Hebrews 11 and doing a sort of forensic analysis from that? I guess that gets back to similar things like Job, right? They believed to salvation but no indication of gospel followed to get them to that point. One of the things I'd bring up for consideration also - what is the value of focusing on the "gospel" of salvation to the exclusion of all other aspects of salvation? Perhaps the "gospel" only serves to document a relationship and the relationship is what is important as it pertains to salvation. Hence Jesus words to some with the essence of "get away from me I never knew you". I know preachers always say "the only medicine you need is the gos - pill " but a lot of them also are posturing for power and authority over people. An over-emphasis on Bible fundamentalism puts the book as the power and not the Christ behind the book. On the information contained in the stars, of course we would have to establish who knew what when, which at this point with the historical accounts we have available is pretty near next to impossible. We don't have Zoroaster's lab notes from Alexandria, or whatever.

I think it is a pretty common supposition that discussing Biblical passages in a "doctrinal" capacity kind of implies a belief in God. As a historical or cultural account, the Bible has little value even compared to works we know about like Josephus. I'm not saying you can't piece together things, but it doesn't seem to flow as a historical account - I mean look at all the problems even trying to come up with a "harmony of the gospels", something vp took advantage of in all of his little nit-picky collateral works to the end of trying to establish himself as some kind of expert on Jesus Christ. "If you can't trust them with how many were crucified, how can you trust them with the verities of eternal life" - sure I can remember some kind of quote like that through the PFAL classes, right? With that said, I don't think this forum should exclude any viewpoints on the Bible regardless of belief systems. As far as what the first exposure was to the afterlife, I mean if there is any truth to Bullinger's work, "The Witness of the Stars" probably would be a prior indicator of that through teachings than any of the scrolls were.

Twinky, That sounds like a seriously bad-@$$ piece of work in your research paper. I for one would love to read it if you still have a copy of it around. chockfull

So, to sum things up..... <sarcasm> There's nothing I'd rather do than go sit through multiple hours of an Animatronics version of Don Knotts teaching Jesus Christ - DOA and send him money </sarcasm>

Hey Lanikaigal, Welcome! Have a cup of joe and a scone on the house :) That's a cool image - you cruising out of your Brownstone and chilling in Central Park at a table getting real with our Lord and Savior. Welcome!

One thought I had on the LGBTQ movement - that it probably is not a new thing under the sun. I know Rome had some practices and beliefs I've read about historically, besides Bible references. I bet all of that was commonly practiced in Rome - maybe not trans medical like today. Of course there is a balance, and yes the movement will have to address issues like 3% of the population dictating an inordinate amount of policy proportionally, and as you mentioned people getting different ideas about children - raising gender neutral. I mean it doesn't hurt me how people raise their children, and to my thoughts she kind of misses the point of the movement anyway which tries to communicate kids gravitate towards a sexuality or choice by 6 or 7. Meaning they on their own do it, and it has little to do with the environment they are raised in. But the Bible fundamentalists on this point are really just modern-day Pharisees. To think that God would put a genetic tendency towards something to do with sexual identity and attraction into a person that is by His standards condemning them to death means that their idea of God is a cruel, manipulative and abusive tyrant. No idiots, that would be you projecting your own traits onto God. Or your Pharisaic interpretation of scripture. I mean GTFO and go back to flogging yourself - leave me out of it.

I like the article and the more I think about it the more TWI looks like a Westboro-Baptist-church-like hate group, with attributed quotes.

Good stuff DWBH. Works-based so-called christianity will always leave a person empty and unsatisfied. The genuine article puts the capital "C" back in Christ, makes him Lord in reality and is all about living a relationship with Him. Something these antichrists know nothing about flapping their jaws in the breeze and setting themselves up to be the mediator to cure your works problem, which of course will involve sending them money, because all that hot air making is hard work and deserves compensation, don-cha-know....

Also, just wanted to bring it up in light of TWI, I remember many of their "mind-reading" tricks especially at HQ or another root locale involved having a flock of spineless tattletale spies who go around and report to the top on everything. I talked to a clergy woman later who detailed some of this out - how she and husband were put in a "unit" (read trailer) with another family to live per TWI housing requirements, and the prez cabinet person would have her come tattle on private details in life with the other couple. Hey I guess that's one benefit they don't list of going on staff - you can experience a flock of spineless tattletale spy seagulls.

This is so awesome that the conversation is steering away from superstitions and mysticism and ending up where it is. Many so-called "mind reading" tricks are based in science: https://www.paulekman.com/ This guy's research and TV series it spawned called "Lie To Me" have been really interesting to me over the last couple of years. And there's a spin-off coming fall 2017. Yea! I actually recently saw a demo lately of facial recognition software that is able to categorize the universal emotions and rate them on a scale of 0 to 1 in a face scanned.

You got it TBone exactly. Semi-Shakespearean ;)

It was a time where 'Men in Tights' was doing the seed of the serpent lady, to speak of the top level of the menagerie. You know - athletes of the scarlet letter? I remember when little kids used to watch that flick seeing those 2 grind on each other..... TWIT Family Values folks....

Found an old thread on Pikes Peak Seminary:

So - decorum and tone here. First, the salty language and all doesn't really bother me. And sometimes confrontation can get people to re-think things. However, here's the rub for me. If people are yelling all the time at each other how is that example any different than the narcissistic drunkards rants or the foreheads screaming sessions, no matter how much truth a person feels they have all contained up inside themselves? But overtly kind apologistic whitewash doesn't help either. I mean that's the realm of rosie the riveter and that is vomit inducing, especially when you are carrying on with Machiavellian antics behind the scenes kicking people out and firing them off staff just like the predecessor narcissists. I mean we are all basically sitting around a large circle looking at a 100 foot high pile of steaming manure, and describing it from different perspectives, kind of like Plato's cave. Most of us have never met each other, so we are the actors reflected in the shadows. The actors do like to argue about who has more manure on the brain, but there are probably streaks of it in everyone's hair whether they realize it or not. Which reality is real? Was that one? Or is this one now? I mean you can't divide your life and disassociate yourself from the past, no matter how hard we try. However at least this reality doesn't smell so bad and doesn't have us living like persecuted slaves. What the f that has to do with decorum and tone I have no f'ing idea. Carry on.

RFR has no loyalty to anyone but herself. She is as much of a megalomaniac as either predecessor. She rose to power in a Communist or Totalitarian approach of sending her enemies to Siberia. She seduced Donna and took the presidency then axed LCM As she gets older and more senile she's going to get more unstable and volatile and any cross word could set her off. The good news is that in the overall scheme of life on this planet she means nothing. Who cares if a witch howls if she has no authority over you. Freedom in Christ is > the bondage of a cult with a wicked witch leader

DWBH you do a great job of exposing this insipid bunch of self-serving sociopaths past and present. Your language doesn't tweak me because to me language is barely able to capture the evil these megalomaniacs caused in people's lives or the difficulty there is in escaping these systems. Although I do see how it would tweak various Wierwille apologists in whatever stage of apology they may be in. I say turn it up not down.

Interesting. I notice the sociopath in how easy it is for them to lie. Paranoid schizo too - anyone who isn't 100% submissive and compliant - are ousted and bum rushed and shunned. That's an extreme reaction of someone who thinks people are out to get them. Not sure of the schizoaffective - that seems to also indicate a bipolar disorder mixed. Narcissist in the flasher activities as well as his thinking he was "healing" his sexual victims. And 100% surrounded by enablers. Your other adjectives I think accurately document known behavior. He was certainly pathological. How the hell God could work with that to get me interested in the Bible and all the positive aspects of what I got out of TWI is beyond miraculous. I guess I describe it to some as being led into and out of Egypt in my life story.

In contrast, interestingly enough, to escape the spiritual abuse, the necessity is to recognize that the spiritual authority to whom you have been submitting is a false one. The first step to escape is to declare that authority as null and void in its continuing ability to influence your decisions. To escape false spiritual authority, recognize it for what it is - false. Then you are empowered to take the next step in avoiding or being aware of the leaven of the Pharisees. This is why submission to authority was driven so hard in TWI. And why any deviation was attacked with a viciousness.

A rich supply of unpublished EWB work that could be repackaged as completely new groundbreaking work? No doubt it was his greatest accomplishment.

Victims and oppressors both. The child molesters in today's society were the sexual abuse victims of a decade ago. At our best mimicking Christ all we did was extend the stay of people in an organization based on lies - plagiarism and sexual swingers. But hey let me whitewash history in my own mind and convince myself I was different and it was others and the org that were off. Regardless of the truth of that there is an overarching truth I can't get past. As much good as I ever did, I enabled abusers and followed orders so I share their blame. Yes with respect to TWI I was a victim. I was also an abuser. Morally I try to reverse that impact by recognizing and refusing false spiritual authority and pointing it out to others. For all the lurkers - once you decide in your mind these false authorities have no genuine God given authority then it's easier to just say no. No BOD members God did not appoint you and your authority is a facade. So I will no longer accept that God gave you that authority or obey your Pharisaiac mandates. I wasn't an abuser like them - I didn't do the things they did. I didn't join the clubs of pleasure I wasn't a swinger I didn't do the crap vp did or lcm or rifr. I didn't cheat on my wife abuse alcohol or steal others work. I didn't politically assassinate enemies or lie about people to get them kicked out. I just obeyed the people who did. I was a tool.

You mean the full sized bronze VP statue that they made little replicas of so that the aspiring moglets could have their own private idol on their desk? That's in the auditorium lobby no? Even more funny is counting the pools at the fountain of dying waters.