chockfull

Word my brother. I was blind, and dumb, and a tool. Then one day I woke up. The truth that they try to cover up will be shouted from the rooftops.

The Way mostly follows the plumber's rules: 1) Sh@#@#@t flows downhill. 2) Payday is Friday Except for on #2, that is all diverted to the "household of God" inner elite. The Pharisees of the Pharisees. $65M in assets, $31M in short-term investments in money market. And President's Cabinet salaries. Your ABS at work. I don't know why people stay. I mean the plumber's rules are there in all of life. If you don't have the second rule to look forward to, life can get kind of depressing.

Agree. I believe the whole logic there was based on the fact that cancer cells grow on their own in the body. So the incorrect conclusion drawn was since they seemed to have life of their own, it had to be caused by a devil spirit. Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb. Dumb. Bacteria has life of its own. As it is a bug dummy. Viral infections too. At the microscopic level. So maybe cancer is similar, you bunch of superstitious idiots. From that mindset, there is a chance to cure it. Work on research, like the world is doing. Although I guess we could all regress to the 17th century and just put leeches on everything. PS - all my "dummy" words are not directed at you if not obvious. More to do with my own personal angst. Thx for understanding.

"Cult Experts" - hey that's always the answer. Instead of turning to God and the truth, hire a whitewashing crew. While you are firing anyone who complains. What a bunch of pathetic losers. PS - I'm so glad I'm not in the ministry so I can say things like this. I would be way too afraid if they still had any inkling of authority left over me, mentally or otherwise. Their authority is false, not given from God, but taken through political succession and compliance to the previous sycophant.

Hello ILSC thanks for posting up your struggle and ideas. What I believe you are doing here is scriptural - proving all things and holding fast to the good - intended to be as such. This is a very real struggle for all of us who experienced TWI. Our faith to us was (and is) real. You are asking if JS is legit. Well he sure was when he wrote that adultery paper. So is he now I suppose is the underlying question, to the extent that you can trust him like we did teachings in the ministry? I think we need to be more discerning now than we ever have before. I've already spent a few decades of my life giving out unearned, unrequited, and unappreciated loyalty in my life in the name of blind faith. Jesus taught you know people by their fruit. This principle certainly applies to organizations as well. I don't know JS personally enough to give an opinion there. I will say that JS compared to VPW is definitely a Biblical scholar. However, that is not saying much. MRAP was asking opinions on JS work the REV. Here is where issues with old wineskins impact things IMO. The scholarly environment JS grew up in, trained in, was one of isolationism. One where one hero, extremely dedicated to the scriptures, would take the over 300 verses on Holy Spirit, lock himself in a room, and write the piece RHST that revolutionized Christianity. (We didn't see what was happening behind the scenes). One where we had literal translations according to usage, one where we were the only ones resurrecting EW Bullinger's "Figures of Speech" of which modern literary works may use a handful of these. We had the "only truth" on orientalisms, knowing the meaning of obscure scripture expressions like "apples of gold" and "for this purpose was I spared". There was a whole logic rhetoric pattern built in to develop all sorts of mental acrobatics when scriptures contradict each other in ways. You don't see all that stuff in yourself working scriptures. This is why there is a body of Christ. There is a need for collaboration. Cross-denomination work. Evaluating many different opinions. One of the Way's biggest doctrinal error teachings is that around the family and household of God. I mean somehow they can read those scriptures about the ONE body, and construct some inner elite circle called the "household of God". In this inner elite circle you can trust people, do drugs, be a drunken idiot, abuse people mentally, verbally, and sexually, and act like a rock star. That practical error of living an "elitist body of Christ" turned into doctrinal error, and now you have all these splinter groups constructing their own little "households of God" all over the countryside. Not one gets along with the others. Not one interacts with the other members of the body of Christ in their own communities, the other churches, Christians. You see, with that doctrinal error there is also an isolationist perspective that is wrapped up. That is where the main challenges lie, IMO. That's why I can say enjoy JS work as a commentary perspective. I read other commentaries now studying scripture. I remember taking a class in college on the Pauline epistles. The Catholic priest with a doctoral degree taught us to study that way. Read the commentaries. Read what other members of the body of Christ are inspired by. I was an idiot, and could only have stuck in my mind "remote context" and "where it was used before" and "Paul's thorn in the flesh". Thus, VP's commentary was the only one that I did not discount in my mind. Do you think that might have led to poor life decision choices? Duh. Oh, I failed the class too. Hopefully by now I have learned something from it. I know some post TWI have discarded Christianity. I personally can't relate to that. To me Christianity is all about a relationship. I mean the same Lord Jesus Christ who was there for me in 7th grade pre-TWI when I was born again, the same one I talk to every day, He hasn't left me. Praying, studying, being spiritual to me are all important aspects to life. To me that is enough. Sometimes my journey leads me among other churches and Christians other times it does not. I trust Him and move forward. The atheists can call me deluded. It's OK. I have to live my life with my vision, my eyes.

Hmmm. Where this logic fails is in examining the current TWI. Rosie pretty much has every single teaching focused on collaterals content. And magazine articles too. For her, those books are more important to adhere to than actual Bible verses. And the fruit of that over the last couple decades is pretty evident with all that R & R group is posting up about numbers lost, people not sticking around, no need for yearly Adv. classes, etc. I mean just listen to their music or one of their teachings for Christ's sake. It is bland. Vanilla. Boring. Ridicule inspiring. Mind-numbingly dull. The production around it with the swinging ladies of the burlap maternity dresses and the lack of a live drumkit on set for decades is really a reincarnation of the Lawrence Welk show in an elevator filtered into on stage mannequins. HQ today is a cesspool of vipers all biting and devouring one another. Spying, reporting, people being bullied and fired like has happened forever. And out of that venomous snake pit comes the dullest product ever presented to mankind. Maybe the books were a good part of the problem all along. Lack of scholastic effort and integrity. Along with what Veep modeled with the narcissism and abusive and criminal behavior. I mean watching Leah Remini recently and her Scientology library - those books and L. Ron Hubbard's insistence on getting them into everyone's hands has been the means for Scientology to amass $$$ and control people for a long time. Overall, I'd say find a better Christian minister to model. One who is a little more involved with research and less involved with abuse. And don't go looking amongst the splinter societies for that either. That's just plain simple Jesus-parable-about-new-wine-and-old-wineskins advice.

They had a feeling they were stuck in the Matrix and decided to take the red pill instead of the blue pill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

Actually, now that I think about it, the whole background for the Way instructing followers that "research means re-search" or searching out again what has already been discovered. Is this not a plagiarists manifesto? Is this not following in the footsteps of the mighty VP founder? For VPW, "research" meant plagiarism. Like the time he checked himself into the motel and wrote Receiving the Holy Spirit Today on a diet of grapes? Why did he need the motel? So nobody could see him transcribing over 70% of JE Stiles book that he would later publish as his own?

No, all they can do is produce "walking dead". Zombies emerge from whited sepulchres and seek to consume human flesh.

So johniam. Would you say that Chris Geer has changed from all of the depravity of his past? I would have a really hard time trying to see how this wasn't putting new wine in old wineskins. I don't see how a man who served as a complete VPW yes-man, including playing a part in the sexual abuse of young women, and then doing a power grab like he did, is a genuine Christian minister. While I am thankful there are Christian fellowships out there who take care of each other like you described with your fellowship's finances in an emergency, I do not support or condone the enablement of sycophants placing themselves at the top of a hierarchy of a new cult. And if teachings, research, works are based upon VPW, it is definitely a new cult.

One more appropriate image: This would be in the H3LL NO category: *Fig. 1 - Hitler meeting with his "Presidents Cabinet" *For those who are viewing on mobile or have limited access to image content

Haha. Too funny. Should make another one of the top picture for Uncle Rico.

No pictures necessary. R@mona Bid0n was named in lawsuits and documentation described her as a "procuress". Meaning to spell it out she would be the one sent out to "recruit" young women for sexual escapade threesomes with Martind@le. It's the same woman. She remarried and used her knowledge of all the stuff she did to get her and new husband a fulltime Corpse position on the field - part of RFR's bribery promotion practice - extreme obedience gets rewarded, any inkling of dissent gets you shipped to Siberia. In fact, although I don't know the later Corpse members of R&R - the 31st Corpse folks, I will say that everyone up there on the stage for that R&R meeting should probably disqualify themselves for leadership due to their own personal escapades and coverup of escapades. I mean I read an article about that one super-church evangelical guy in Colorado a few years back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Church_(Colorado_Springs,_Colorado) 10,000 members. The leader Ted Haggard was busted paying for a male escort for over 3 years and doing methamphetamine. 6 figure settlement with another person this guy was having an inappropriate relationship with. You would think a person's lifestyle would actually prevent them from certain professions. But no. The wife writes a book "Why I Stayed", they take a year off with a 6 figure salary paid for by the founding church, some nice rest and relaxation, then they are off starting up another church. So I guess that would be the church for you if you are gay, have a meth habit, and all of that is a secret life where you appear as a family man? Some people just picked the wrong d@mn profession, and can't come to grips with it.

The big NO:

More NO column:

More NO column:

In the NO column:

Next, I think we need to start out communications, and building concepts on this "How To Start A Cult" real slow, and use lots of pictures. Sometimes some people just need a little more time for things to sink in. First off, we are going to have a YES column, and a NO column. In the YES column:

Hello all. With everything that is going on, it seems like there is an ongoing need in the household of God, body of Christ, group of disgruntled ex-way people. We want to leave a cult, but we are too brainwashed by the cult to collaborate with other human beings with similar interests like the Bible, God, and Christianity. Because it is way too hard to communicate with folks like this and peddle our influence, we really need to stick to folks that are similarly brainwashed to ourselves. So, the only logical conclusion left is we need to start our own cult. For all the people like this, I am starting this thread.

Scene from "The Golden Child" with Eddie Murphy

And hey, Rico has a new "snow on the gas pumps" account he can tell all his new cult followers.

Filming porn movies on his motorcoach on the way back home from the orgies in California with the hippies? And drinking Drambuie?

More input after reading the Q & A comments on the live feed. I'm figuring out what bothers me most about this live feed. I think it is the lack of authenticity. What I mean by that is they are all coming off like they are working within the ministry, confronting things with scripture according to the Word, sending in their ABS to HQ and all. That is 100% a lie. Behind the scenes they have already planned out a coup. They have already started a splinter group. They already have a website up at the link I posted earlier. Allison Horn3y will give out the password to it if people PM her. They all pretty much know they are going to be marked and avoided, and have known this from the 7 page letter they sent last year in August. And they have already planned out a new splinter ministry, with those folks sitting in the circle as the new leadership of the new splinter group. There were other folks in the audience that signed that letter, like Jason Cart3r's parents. What they are planning right now is the exact same thing people leaving have planned for the last 50 years. Take as many people with you that are conditioned to give 15% of their income as you can. Try and make it as seamless and transparent to the people moving from the Way to your splinter as you can. Yes. Another exodus. We can even gauge the impact of this one. Invitations to the Q and A session went out to approximately 1800 people. There are now about 180 people in the R&R splinter. So they will probably peel off about maybe 10% of remaining Way followers. Maybe 20%. The Way probably has about that many on its rolls (1800) in the United States, including a whole bunch of people who are on the list but not really into it. So you can't really split people off that don't really care - let's put the potential influence at 70% of that - because there really aren't that many new people that have joined over the last 20 years. That puts Way numbers at about 1200 - maybe they will pull 20 - 30% of people left. So to sum up, the Way with all of its forced outreach, doctrinal error teaching about how the Word moved because people followed a systematic outreach plan, has an overall measurable impact in the country it was founded in that is about parallel in numbers to a medium-large community church in a city. But in impact it would be measurably less because the momentum a 1200 person church gives you in a community is substantial. The Way's retention numbers are abysmal. On a basic human level, that is completely foreseeable and logical. It is proportional to how they treat people throughout their time in the Way. The Way treats people who have given their lives to the cause like dung. Always has. These people have no business founding a ministry. If they were genuine and honest about it, rather than doing the power grab run, they would leave, go to a seminary somewhere for a couple years, then graduate and do a church plant with someone not from their background so they could have practical experience with getting over that "household of God" lie. They can't even see that lie when they are directly affected by it with JYDL declaring the household boundaries as outside their group. Does this justify the Way in this scenario? H3ll no. 100% of the stupid one point they are making is correct. Rosalie is a deluded cult leader who at 77 isn't going to change, and the two John's she has seduced are under her thumb and not leaving because of her Communist Stalin Hitler like tactics of sending dissenters to Siberia. God, the scriptures, revelation, the body of Christ, none of that functions freely under that kind of oppressive onerous lording over people leadership. We are witnessing the birth of one more stupid cult. YASC. Yet Another Stupid Cult.

I know exactly what you mean. I have never been more thankful for the last decade without the Way than I was watching this circle. The issues are exactly the same. And they have been frozen in time for 10 years. Missing out on the more abundant life they thought they were pursuing all while running on a hamster wheel controlled by a sycophant.

Now that is some seriously funny shizzle. Researching the location of the research in TWI. And Mr. Ed.