chockfull

Sweeping fields blue skies ....

Camp Gunnison - the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow ....

Good point there, DWBH. I mean in the public facing photos we've got all Butch, but no Sundance there, figuratively. What gives?

So one of our discussions on the Internet tactics thread led us to talking about Camp Gunnison. We see current pictures on the Way's flickr of open fields and polished logs. The discussion brought up points like similar to the pyramids, Gunnison was constructed on the backs of slave labor. Gunnison with its vacant walls and empty stages is also starting to look like a Mausoleum. Well I mean like so much you see a pattern where basically anything the "Fox" touches dies and becomes a sepulchre with a whitewashed exterior and porcelain front. Way Productions - from High Country Caravan to the present day Swinging Ladies of the Maternity Dresses, Way Publications, the Sunday Teaching Service - I mean it is like a farmer with a brown thumb. Where you see the Matriarch of Control, the Gift Ministry of "Administrations" or organizations, or spirit of obsession, the grass turns yellow and the flowers die spiritually. But enough about the cause, lets get back to the effect. Beautiful photos. A great countryside. Built to attract thousands of visitors at a time. In its heyday with Family Camps running all summer with Devotion with Motion, the Advanced Class running there in the summer, the Corpse training there, Rodeo School, I mean that place had PEOPLE in it. Activity. Life. Yes behind the scenes unbeknownst at the time to all of us there were the mistresses of Cabin 12 and all that depravity, but I can remember when the whole circle was JAM PACKED with people. Life. Now. No Advanced Class. Because there is no need. An Intermediate Class. A youth class. Anniversary phone hookups. Woohoo. I mean the place is starting to remind me of another story that was told long ago. One that involved another Colorado resort. The Stanley hotel. http://www.stanleyhotel.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stanley_Hotel In this episode of the Twilight Zone, we travel to a place in Colorado......

Camp Gunnison reminiscing. You know now that we're on the topic I remember at one point talking to Ed H0bbs about all the log cabin structures at Gunnison and the project. Ed was telling me that VP tried to talk him into donating all the materials and labor for the work. He told VP, "well a great teacher of the Word once taught me that a workman is worthy of his hire". So VP said "you got me", and the Way paid full price for all of the log cabin materials and the labor (from Grand Lake Log Homes) out of ABS. So you and dwbh are telling the other side of the story where VP extracted his pound of flesh for having to pay full price. The Corpse. The only ones of us on the planet stupid enough to be "believing" for tuition equal to an accredited college so that we could hitchhike to Gunnison and work full time slave labor I would say for free, but we already covered that point that we were paying to work. And missing out on our unaccredited college courses that we paid for. The Way. Using people since 1942. Yes I feel like you guys too. It must be a similar feeling that the Israelites had from the other side of the sea looking back at the pyramids.

So with JY de Loser taking the reins of course we all have some curiosity as to how he is going to handle the hidden sordid past of the Way, the internet, and truths about how the Way leadership is (including how de Loser really is) and what they want to portray with their whitewash campaign. Now the honest ethical spiritual approach would be to acknowledge the evils, disband the organization that for as they say "70 years" has operated like a MOG cult lying to people about them being a "Bilbical research ministry" and manipulating them, and to contribute the $65 million in assets to any other charitable organization on the planet that genuinely helps people, and to pursue a different avenue in Christianity. But of course we know that the Stalin-like structure of the Way leadership and the extreme actions of marking and avoiding people (then denying they have that policy) will never allow them to give up on the $$$$ and do the right thing, but they will forever be engaged in what I refer to as the Way International Whitewash and Denial Society until they die. JY de Loser is the current President of the Way International Whitewash and Denial Society. So, what is he going to do? I mean we can't let this pesky internet business sink the ship we've spent all our lives building. I mean the ship has to sail on, regardless of the trail of dead bodies left in its wake. We have to fight back. What are we going to do? Well, you know, we at the Way are really really technology backwards, because Rosie hates the internet. That's why Linder has to print out all those sheets for her to read. Well presto, with a new President we can change that. Woohoo - commencement - internet warfare mode. What are we going to do? #1 Priority - we have to get Search Engine Optimization going to that the Greasespot Cafe, and John Juedes site can't be found by our young little fresh dupees all ready to obey unquestioning and increasingly controlling mandates. So let's start up a whole bunch of Way related websites. This will tremendously advance us in the Way International Whitewash and Denial campaign. What are they? 1. thewayministries.com - oh wait we can't use that one - it is already an Isrealite Nazarene ministry. that's ok though it helps. 2. thewayministries.org - the sister site to the Nazarene org is available - let's buy it up. Here is a fantastic place to take pictures of all the cards made for MOGLETS. At the end of each foundational class, it is mandated to make cards for the Board of Doolittle Dummies. (BOD) here on this site, we have photo pictures of all these cards. Of course we don't have the sappy cult-sounding innards of the cards, just the pictures. all on this site. 3. thewaymagazine.com - wow here we can repost old Way mag articles to spam content nobody ready in 2005 when it was published, but we can recycle them here. One regurgitated article a week, not new content, but taken from all years. Wow, some of the way mag articles they are reprinting took place during the worst times ever, as written about at GSC. That's OK, they can just lift out any content that doesn't have people's names, places, etc. in. and regurgitate. Because that's what the Way is great at - regurgitation. They call it research. 4. www.slideshare.net/TheWayInternational - Cool a new place for sharing presentation slides. Except for that the Way has never used these 6 presentations in any teaching known to mankind, it is just an exercise in some poor fool in Way Publications putting together another generic vanilla presentation with nobody's name on it. Never been used, never been published, never shown on a screen anywhere. Yes yes the Way slideshare. 5. thewayinternational.weebly.com/ - Weebly - a one page site with a nice picture and a generic organization description, external links to articles and content on the Way site. Hey that will help raise the search engine rankings 6. thewayinternational.strikingly.com/ - Strikingly - another external links site pointing back to theway.org - for SEO. Here there is a cool tagline "Sharing the Rightly Divided Word of God". And it describes how they "draw from decades of research". Which technically isn't 100% a lie. I mean there's no research going on now, and hasn't for a while, but they used to have a research department. All we need to do is make sure nobody can find the only originally authored piece produced by the person whose name is on the title in the entire research department published anywhere. And the only one you can pick up at Barnes and Noble That is Charlene Edge's book Undertow - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/undertow-charlene-l-edge/1125195298. You see this one wasn't published by "American Christian Press" or whatever dummy non-existent publishing org the Way owns - some publishing company that is external to the Way actually read this book, approved it as a project, and it is published through normal channels. Congrats, Charlene, you finally modeled to the Way how to publish something correctly in the world. I hope they can't cover it up. 7. Twitter - @thewayinternational - now you too can have 140 character whitewashed daily devotionals spewed to you. 8. Flickr - www.flickr.com/photos/thewayinternational - all photos all the time, Flickr. Dang. Look how beautiful those multi-million dollar log cabins are at Camp Gunnison. Look at all the fresh grass there mowed so beautifully. It is divine. I mean that grass is so pristine. It gets less use than a PGA tour golf course on a Monday. Nobody is laying on that grass. Nobody lives in the buildings either. A skeleton crew - all to run an Intermediate class with 15 people in it for a few weeks, and have a semi-occupied hotel at other times that nobody stays in. Any former member would either be not allowed on grounds or if they were it would be total creepsville anyway. Actually Camp Gunnison is starting to look more and more like that deserted hotel in the Shining with Jack Nicholson. And we can see pictures of all these people too. The old bat looks like an old bat still. Rupp has some grey hair going on. Is that because you got passed up for Pres there guy? And De Loser still looks like a major condescending d-bag, just like always. Fun times on the internet for the Way. I'm sure they will think up more crafty strategic approaches for The Way Whitewash and Denial Society as we progress. I mean the show has to go on. There are more people to be marked and avoided. And more $$$$ and power to collect.

Hey T-Bone, I'll trade you half a ham salad sandwich for an apple and your brawn food bar.

Reflecting back myself, I find that many like myself got involved in the Way when we were either teenagers or no older than say 23 years old. How many teenagers in this day and time, or young adults to the age of 23 do you know that have what you would describe as well-developed critical thinking skills? I know I certainly would not describe myself that way looking back at that time. Maybe Jesus did, but i'm not like him in so many ways. This is not even talking about those indoctrinated second gen Way people who went to childrens fellowship. They all probably had to unlearn some thinking skills first before delving into developing critical thinking after leaving or more likely they just finally realized your average person in the world is going to treat you better than your average interaction with a Way "believer". Then the Way teaching pattern started out on the small stuff - 4 Crucified, how many died with Jesus / angels can dance on the head of a pin, etc. etc. then from there VP's homiletics led to how can you trust them on the eternal life stuff? Very slick. In this I see the basis for the small-step compromises I accepted over years. I would actually say that the Way preys on the lack of well-developed critical thinking skills.

It sounds like a country western song entitled "The Only Thing You Don't Change Is Your Mind".

There are many out there who say VPW would "turn over in his grave" if he heard what was going on. I would just add that if that were the case, it would be to get a better view....

They have constructed for themselves a personalized collective brand of Plato's cave. They sit around watching the shadows on the wall reflecting off of the fire holding intricate and meaningless endless discussions about shadows. Meanwhile outside the cave the real world functions normally, oblivious to cave dwellers.

Sorry I am not glong to give you a pass for calling me a coward when you are too lazy and deluded to get to know me or my story. I focused on God and truth. you on the other hand are an armchair quarterback hyping your self up on a sick man's stolen work, all while being too cowardly to look behind the curtain at the fruit as Jesus instructed us. What you accuse others of oozes out of your post like an open sore. you are not in the way and didn't have to live the Word with the people teaching it like I did. I damn well know the difference between someone living and teaching God's Word and someone who is trying to teach what they are not living. So why don't you with all your .... accusations crawl on back out of here where you came from and kiss 100% of my @$$ on the way out. Or be a man and apologize. And stop lying about all the many way leadership you have confronted and backed down with them running away with their tail tucked. None of the people named here has ever been seen by anyone responding to Joe believer confronting them in this fashion. I mean I could believe you talked harshly to your lady twig coordinator and made her cry based on your post but certainly not anyone we post about around here. If we would have mastered his books. idiot we pored over those hours a day for years. More than you have even dreamed about. Rosie has spent the last decade plus dumbing the Way down to the collaterals. And it is worse now than ever before. I have a lot of tolerance for people but about zero for seagulls who want to fly by crap on things and then fly off. And Mike with visions of Jesus returning holding an orange piffle book? I mean someone who can elevate vps book above the words of the Father like that is not even remotely close to being sound of mind. Closer to tinfoil hats and alien abductions. Tune in to the revelation channel where you can live for the devil and speak for God all at the same time God is not mocked what a man sows he reaps.

Hi Mike, You claim that you've handled almost all our objections. I can't help but notice that you have failed to address any of my 4 posts on this topic which were detailed and raise unanswered objections. While I know you are conversing with many people on this thread I can't help but wonder if you just don't want to face the points I'm bringing up. Thank you.

Some of the challenges in discernment is to see evil for what it is, rather than lessening the impact with words, excuses, enablement. Foibles, or peccadillo's another synonym or adjective often applied to VPW when discussing his character flaws include the "pedicure plus" program, as depicted here: http://empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_newwoman.htm So are these the "foibles" that God just overlooked while giving VP non-stop revelation? Or perhaps was he a huckster, a shyster, a con-man when it came to those claims? Next, does character come into play, or is it just God "automatic writing" something with a possessed vessel? My thoughts are that is not how it works. Every man is known by their fruit, not by their ability to be a possessed vessel for use.

No person is purely "bad guy" or "good guy". Including yourself, offering a different opinion on this thread supporting recommending VP's works to others. All members of the body of Christ, and members in particular with longsuits. But you do have me wondering whether your longsuits might be better served by me digging into storage somewhere to see what I could sell you out of boxes. :) Let us know for sure if eBay isn't stocked up sufficiently. I'm sure with the resources around here we could sell you a book or two that we haven't contributed to "burn the chaff" day since leaving the Way.

LMFAO. It's a genuine spiritual revival. It is a movement of God. It's a sweeping Christian restoration movement. ........to those with the password. If you want deliverance, facebook All1s0n H0rn3y

Well, if VP had gone to a normal school for his doctorate, like the Catholic priest that taught my Pauline epistles class in college, rather than a send-in-your-ceral-boxtops-with-your-book-report college like the one that was run mail-order out of a house in Manitou Springs, Colorado where VP obtained his doctorate, then maybe he would not have been that lazy academically. But I guess that's the point his critics make about his doctorate. If he was all about doing things the right way, he wouldn't have enrolled in the ceral boxtop book report college that wasn't accredited.

IMO being shunned by a cult may have varying degrees of difficulty and impact based on family involved, but being shunned by a cult is not an experience I would say that Jesus had in mind for his followers in any respect. Being shunned by a cult is literally what is happening. They use the verses in the Bible 'mark and avoid' that Paul wrote about during his voyages in Romans 16:17-18. But the truth of the matter is that Romans 16:17-18 is written to the believer so they can avoid people like the ones doing the shunning. v18 talks about people who don't serve our Lord, but their own appetites. Pop quiz. Who are the ones serving their own appetites here? The lowly believer complaining about the debt policy and doing research on it? Or the President sitting on $65 million in assets with $30 million in cash to invest in the money market year over year while members are broke, in debt, and destitute?.

OldSkool thanks for the story. It has more impact than you realize. One of the lies the Way uses continually in their ongoing whitewash process and campaign is "yes, the ministry was corrupt in the past, but we're all better now". Continual stories like this decade after decade show the truth. The Way ministry is not better. It is an old wineskin that functions now like it has throughout the history of the ministry, centered around the top head cheese. It is abusive, manipulative, unthankful, uncaring, and vindictive. Why? Because that's how its leaders are and always have been at the very top. The common people just never see it because the leaders hide this side of the Way ministry. Dual standards. Hypocrisy. Elitism. One rule for the elites, another for the populace. The Word lays bare their motivations too. They teach and control for filthy lucre's sake. $65 million in total assets. Over $30 million in cash sitting around to invest in the money market year after year. How much savings total do you think all the members currently of the Way International have in their private savings accounts? I would venture to say if you added up all the private savings assets of current active members of the Way International, that it would add up to a whole lot less than $30 million. This is an imbalance. This is a lopsided equality. This is simple exploitation. This is a one-way money flow. This is not Christian abundant sharing as recorded in the Bible. We even had retemory verses about this, how your abundance may supply their want, and their abundance supplies your want, so that there may be equality. You see in genuine Biblical teachings and functions according to the Bible there is equality. Balance among all members. Equal input, equal say, equal benefit. Inner circles of Pharisees contradict Christ. They are anti-Christ.

Or a movie remake

Now here is a bird that has truly scheduled the Devil out of her life..... For at least as long as she can breathe ....

Hi touchofspice, Welcome to the 'spot and have a Cafe on the house: I actually went and did a search on eBay for PFAL. You can buy orange books ranging from an average of about $15 all the way up to one enterprising individual selling his for $74. I saw an Advanced Class syllabus from the '80s for sale. But I didn't see any tapes. I also checked out YouTube, and searched for PFAL there. Wow. Somebody uploaded a bunch of PFAL class video there - MrBrianmovies - on YouTube - search for him, and you'll find a bunch of PFAL video. While I'm not in the same place you are, I wanted to help. Best of wishes.

You are so right. When I left the Way, I went to a psychologist to talk it over, as a lot of these things were majorly troubling and I was really emotional and it was hard to sort them out. One of the things the psychologist pointed out to me was that exact concept, that these compromises on our ethics and morals were presented over a long period of time, and each time only introduced incremental changes. Just give up a little more of your freedom in Christ to be under this control. It's not much, just comply. Don't be a problem. It's just one more little rule. Legalists boil you like a frog. A little at a time.

You know it's really hard to answer this question. I mean with Piffle, it was so boring and outdated that eventually all the grads made up their own responses, kind of like the crew that I used to go watch "Rocky Horror Picture Show" with in college. There was a similar kind of running dialogue in the class that we used to see there with Rocky Horror. It was a way to kind of escape the monotony of listening to the same Piffle tapes over and over again. With the remake, there was a certain "Athletes of the Spirit" / "Men in Tights" flavor to it. Meaning Loytoy's mimic'd narcissistic ego was all over the place. They kind of like re-arranged elements of Piffle and tried to introduce the same concepts like new birth and SIT. The classes were all built like Piffle series around teaching people the "manifestations". (Splinters try to do this too - like CFFM Power of God series). However, this was right in the midst of all the harem activities, and right in the middle of Rosie stealing Donna away from Loytoy. So you have this really weird blend of homosexual rantings going on, just like they were on the Sunday Teaching Service, on Corps night, and in some twisted letters, that kind of spills over into the class. After SIT, then we need to close the class out with an extra special homo rant covering the last verses in Romans 1. What I really think was going on there was I think Rosie and Donna carrying on was really messing with Loytoy's head. So much for "Biblical Research". Actually, I think this answers the question. No, it wasn't as boring as VP's, due to all of this back channel influence. After Loytoys fall from grace, we used his syllabi and taught the classes for a while. Actually I think those went a little better, as I just couldn't summon up the same level of Westboro Baptist-like hate for the gays that Loytoy could. I just don't have the personal experience necessary. And we told stories, instead of really caring whether we covered all the syllabus points or not. People loved the stories, and could care less about the monotony or consistency idiocy. Of course, this ....ed Rosie off to no end, so filming the WAP replacement was real high on her priorities. So she gets Chocolicious, the mad Physicist, and the Research Department together to film WAP 2. (Ru*pp, L0ngl3y, Ch@voust1e). Now this production, in all of its glory, has Rosies fingerprints all over it. Meaning that it is a snooze-fest. Sucked dry of all life within a 500 foot radius. I mean you could not sustain a growing plant on the set of this production, it is that lifeless. Kind of like the STS if you have listened lately. I haven't. But it hasn't changed. And so far, I think Rosie has only managed to alienate and fire one of the three of those teachers, so they have a boring product that is incomplete now too. They should keep her around longer. She's done wonders for the Way ministry. That's quite a long answer for a short question, LOL.