chockfull

Hey not to interrupt the trolling or anything, but I did want to post in this other link w/r to the doctrine of the Trinity. This thread linked has some higher level discussion from a member in theology school.

Thanks for the updates. Good book for those who need to be marketed to :)

After an onslaught of VP worship trolling it kind of leaves you with the thought that there is no good to hold onto from our Way experience. But there is. You just have to take the red pill in the Matrix first so you can see the Matrix, and not accept unquestioned the cover up lies they try to feed you in the blue pill so you go back to sleep and never question leadership again. Life in the Matrix is harder but it is real not fake.

I don't think the kids thought it was bullying. They are just smaller and eat less out of the table portion allocated meals. We were larger and hungrier.

Wow what a dumb foot I am for trying to answer you authentically. Actually I partially answered for the audience so not all is wasted. So in your parting soliloquy you who spout VP cliches like water are advising us we are putting man's word above God's. That is pretty funny. I mean deluded to the point the irony is humorous.

That's why we would target sitting at a table with a bunch of young kids.....

That sounds like a country western song. Maybe it goes a little like .....

So with the Trinity issue / identity of HS and those topics, here is where the brainwashing effect is still going on. I really don't think the Trinity issue is as cut and dried as VP tried to make it out - meaning he constructed some windmills to fight. If you hunt around Doctrinal I think Steve Lortz has a thread on that covering a different aspect of the trinity viewpoint you might want to look at. The God in Christ aspect may offer some balance to authority as well as identity. I don't think mainstream Christians are as mixed up as you think they are. Yes the Bible makes sense to them. Yes they can communicate some aspects of it to you that you might not have considered before. VP used the JCNG aspect to square off against mainstream Christianity and to separate himself off from others in the body of Christ. That isolationist wrong doctrine and the absolute abomination of the "household" versus "body of Christ" teachings used polluted the minds of many where they could no longer be even comfortable sitting in a denominational or community church service. So your Christian brother, who may be a bit hazy on which in the relationship to him he prays to - God or Jesus, and may not have 100% clear definitive language regarding pneuma hagion, now you are going to discount as "not making any sense" and evaluate as not worth interacting with in your local community? Hey you want to hear something shocking? Sometimes I talk to my Lord and Savior as well as praying to my Father. Horrors. Blasphemy. I'm sure they can sort it out on the receiving channel. Anyway I see the doctrines of the Way established in the thinking patterns of people hidden so they can't even see them. The "household of God' teaching combined with the trinity teaching and the unique HS / hs stuff has people so looking down their nose at fellow Christians they think they can't learn anything from them. Splinter Way people are literally living that verse "how can the hand say to the foot I have no need of thee"? without even seeing it in themselves. That's what they are saying with the elitist attitude and flawed research techniques. Anyway I'm talking in generalities here, not about your research library. Yes I do see many of your links under "etc". And the Step Bible is cool - a lot of external online links as well. I would exhort you and others to expand out materials to include some of the things local degrees are offering in divinity masters and doctorates. There's doctrinal stuff that's cool but there's also community stuff they are doing and implementing which is equally cool and in a different direction than we knew in the Way. We do need the rest of the body of Christ.

I support people being individualists. I mean the contrary isn't something we would want around here, where people are peer pressured to conform to certain viewpoints or leave. In your criticism of me you said I was anti-way. I think that is accurate currently. I took issue with you thinking I would bristle at God being greater than any man. Everyone here has to figure out what is baby and what is bathwater. Or how to separate truth from error. Or how to fulfill the verse that exhorts us to prove all things and hold fast that which is good I Th5:21

It's better. The deep hyperlinks still work but the front page is secured. That's enough to ensure it is a private use website - intended as such there is nothing wrong with copyrighted material. Actually as a private study website, you have a lot of good links and material, including research tools. And with a profession as a pilot, I can see why you would like to have a resource like that on a website. It is pretty ingenious and a little better to access than a Dropbox folder or something. Good work on getting a resource up there like that as a repository for pdf's. You do have pretty much all Way International related publications up there, or materials approved and used by the Way including EW Bullinger's material. In that, you are kind of a 1 person splinter group or splinter ministry. There is not a lot of other input from mainstream Christianity groups, authors, ministers. In that I find that research is myopic. I find the same limitations in one of the splinter group leaders who produced a NT translation / commentary. Because of the ongoing fruit of the Way ministry, which has been using people through 3 generations of Presidents and on to a 4th, if you trace that back with common logic, it is a combination of what they are teaching and what they are modeling. If that is your main source of scriptural guidance in Christianity, then it is severely flawed and limited. The rest of the body of Christ is discounted. True doctrine taught and modeled does not produce the kind of devastation in people's lives that long-term exposure to the Way does. If it is taught, but something else entirely is modeled, then it is hypocrisy. It is like engineering in the construction of airplanes. You can trust the math involved in the aerodynamics all day long, but if you are going to get in a flying machine to test it for the first time you want to make sure that bird has been off the ground before. And that doesn't mean that someone "lifted" airplane parts from 15 different functioning airplanes to piece a new one together with duct tape and baling wire. That new plane would have about as much of a chance of flying as well, as the Way ministry does of working.

You know rrobs, after reviewing your website, I am kind of disappointed. You seemed to have picked up quite a bit from VPW, including the plagiarism tendencies. I see copyrighted .pdf's all over your website, from the Way's publications, to all of your Bible study tools - it seems you're not one for honoring intellectual property. I mean even your site icon belongs to Twitter.

That's right. We absolutely need "secular" references too. Like Ziggy Marley

So if in Isaiah I don't whitewash evil to avoid woe, then with the energized love of God dwelling in me in Christ, not only will I not whitewash evil but I will pressure wash the whitewash off of evil? Sure, I can dig it.

Yes I meant exhibiting Christian love. A display of the concept to indicate an individual has retained and lives the concept. Figurative language from me. And if I offended anyone including you in "we" needing more I Cor 13, please let me know. And rrobs I understand it's a rhetorical "we" that you are intending in your writing style now that you explained it.

Yeah. the interwebs. can only express things with emoticons. As far as beliefs or attitudes towards the Bible, it widely varies around here. Some have rejected Christianity completely post TWI, others have rejected fundamentalism (more extreme views of the Bible), others have ventured into many different areas, including pursuing degrees in Bible research from non-TWI related organizations. Others have joined splinter groups. Some splinter groups have their own translation / commentary of the Bible. I don't think I could assume anything across the board with respect to people's beliefs or attitudes towards the scripture. On the Isaiah verse, I think it is pretty clear regarding behavior (not people). Why would it be there as such? So that people can learn from it. I really would not get too far off into the administration thinking where NONE of the OT statements apply to us currently. I mean that verse communicates pretty clearly to me that I am not to cover for evil and call it good. So it is a warning. And the warning is there for born again Christians to see so that their behavior does not become worse than those in the OT that didn't have similar privileges. Do I think you might be doing those things? Dude, I don't know you at all. So I think pretty much nothing about what you may or may not be doing in your life. However, Isaiah can govern guiding us towards what we should be saying and avoiding if we have eyes and ears open. And I'll guarantee whitewashing evil is not in there.

skyrider hit the nail on the head. With Christianity the important part is Jesus Christ. One of the lies of the cult was to completely usurp Christ with the written Word - "the written Word takes the place of the absent Christ" Well first off - if they would stop acting like a-holes, and more like Christ, maybe he wouldn't be so absent, at least in example. Second, well a vast majority of fundamentalists do act like a-holes, so maybe they need a little I Cor 13 knowledge puffs up love builds up. But hey, we all probably could use a healthy dose of that as well.

Matthew 7 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. This is the Biblical context behind what I am speaking of when I talk about the fruit of people's lives, actions, etc. Notice how right in the same context it speaks of those that come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Wow. I "bristle" at the mere thought of you saying something as simple as "God is greater than any man?" The vibes you are getting must be cross-ingrained from something else in your life. I know they aren't from reading content here that I write. I did see that earlier however when you were asking me how I could tie together Biblical action to producing putrid fruit - you never read the content of my post, as it said almost exactly the opposite. Perhaps a suggestion would be read something through a couple times before getting triggered? It seems things contradicting what you are saying triggers you. Why would I bristle at something that I believe like the statement in quotes? Yes my quote was the concluding portion of your post. I did not include your life story as including entire posts make them more difficult to follow. I'm sure that leaving out your life story summary would change the meaning of any post, however, I don't think I took any of your thoughts out of context - I included the entire paragraph, including the accusatory "we" statements. Whatever of your post you feel I misrepresented, please explain away. And here's a Bible verse for you: Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

So you must be speaking for yourself there with that we. You aren't speaking for me. You know nothing of what thoughts come into my mind regarding scripture or anything else for that matter. But your direction here sure lines up with the Way ministry and latest efforts to discount the evil foundation the organization is built on and just "study the Word". I mean surely the Way will be all right too just studying the Word. Unfortunately in the real world everyone says they are studying the Word. So you have to actually discern between truth and error rather than believing them. I.e. We've studied the Word and you can't have children, mortgage a home, miss a STS. And the Way will lie and use the next generation of millennial just like they did the last 2 generations. And who is going to stop them? Pollyanna?

Plenty of people avoid the Way altogether. Regarding putrid fruit you didn't read my message completely. Ignoring putrid fruit and just quoting scripture in a Pollyanna way actually is contradicting what the Word says. You know, kind of like you are doing all while criticizing the content of the messages on this forum. Sure you can move to remote Montana, live like the unibomber with a Bible and your conversations with God and be fine. But what we are talking about here is helping those ensnared in the Ways traps to free themselves. Maybe you feel that is not you. Maybe in that viewpoint lies an ensnarement that causes your blindness to the trap you are in. The Word has many references to wolves in sheep's clothing

The Bible teaches through the words of Jesus the concept of knowing people through their fruit. Much of the discussion here touches on that. The reason why is the Way has been engaged since the beginning in a whitewash campaign hiding the fruit of its top leadership. Hence all people see are the rainbows and unicorns the Way wants them to see. I would rather tell people the truth. But if I just walk around quoting basic fundamentalist verses and ignore the putrid fruit I'm stepping in all they will ever see is rainbows and unicorns unless they have experienced some of what I have. If they could avoid some of the negative effects of my experience through education I would like that. Also when people are arguing it is hard to see the difference between emotional words and fruit.

Hello rrobs. Nice to meet you. Haven't seen you around the GSC before. Have a cup of coffee on the house and stick around a while. As human beings go we aren't so bad. But yes the tongue can injure as you know. The more chill people are the better off IMO.

Okay okay I admit that this thread really doesn't have a direction it is going, it is just a place to talk about Camp Gunnison and post pictures. I'm bored for an hour or so on a 4th of July weekend.

I mean Gunnison is so beautiful that we even need to make picture models of it to go along with the guys on flower boxes with purple ties and the ladies in maternity dresses. I mean don't maternity dresses just communicate abundance? If everyone is abundant then the ladies are going to be pregnant, thus the need for an ongoing wardrobe of maternity dresses.

New young group of inductees at flag raising.