So_crates

Common sense. The act of demanding suggests the demandor (you) is greater than the demandee (God). No way can that be right, except in Saint Vic's mind. SoCrates

I was. Its a literary device. I was trying to make the point that you don't go before God's throne demanding. If that were the case, Saint Vic was a lesser authority figure than God, why didn't we demand from him? Why when the ministry failed to give us what God had promised didn't we be demanding with them? SoCrates

Lets turn that around for a minute. Rather than people agents of the devil, cult agents of truth, let's look at people agents of truth, cult agents of the devil. If your theory is true : the devil could isolate you from the truth by telling you people who are saying a particular institution is a cult. Then why isn't it equally viable that the devil can isolate you from the truth by having the people in the cult tell you those that are trying to warn you are devil spirits? SoCrates

This changes the whole face of prayer. From: Thank you for this food. Thank you for my loving family. Thank you for this great country. Amen. To: I demanded this food, you didn't disappoint--although the mashed potatoes were a little salty and the apples just a tad to soft.. I demanded a loving family, again you didn't disappoint--although you could do a little more work on Aunt Grace. Also, I demand you do something about the senate and the congress, I'm disappointed, you didn't meet my demands. Get on the schtick, Big Guy, time's a-wastin'. No amen, it is because I say it is. Don't you think this is very human centered? I mean just because we demand it, its there? AS I told you before, naked we came into the world, naked we'll leave it--everything we have here is on loan. Contrary to the belief Saint Vic displays by buying an asbestos coffin, you can't take it with you. Not too long ago, I gave one of my neices a pastery. She was holding it in her hand. What did her mother tell her? You guessed it: "What do you say?" SoCrates

Maybe its sloppy English. I always loved the expression "You want the truth?" You know: Friend and you are in a conversation. "Did you hear about Mr. Lee?" "No," you respond, "what happened to Mr. Lee?" "The truth? You want the truth?" "No, lie to me. Make something up." SoCrates

More like this: Saint Vics slitheriness covered by RR's sluggish beauracracy Socrates

So the whole 15 minute schtick was actually a screening device to cheat people out of their payroles. SoCrates

What is it the fireman chaplin that died in 9/11 said? "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans." SoCrates

A rapist defending other rapists and blaming the victim!? Call Mike Wallace. SoCrates

It's the multinational T.H.E.Y. oranization, of course. SoCrates

Why 15 minute intervals? Don't want us to think too much about the future. We might realize where the whole house of cards was really headed. SoCrates

This is a logical fallacy known as false dilemma (definition). It professes that there are only two possible choices when there are actually more. For example, from the above yopu present: 1. We were controlled 2. We were working in our own interest (We're stupid isn't even a viable option) The easest way to dash false dilemma is to add more possibilities. The simplest: 3. Both: we were being controlled by them manipulating our own interest. 4. Neither: there were other forces in play. What other forces? Being born into it Having parents that forced us to go to twig Getting adopted into it You get the idea. My point: the world is seldom as simple as black or white. There's a lot of shades of grey. SoCrates

Having a five year old neice that was raped; a fiancee that was the victim of repeated sex abuse at the hands of her god brother; and a former girlfriend's daughter who was molested, allow me to speak for all of Saint Vic and Craigmiester's victims. What did you just say? How can you compare apples and oranges like woman being burned in India and a sex abuse victim? What an uninformed and heartless thing to say. You say people misrepresent you, yet you turn right around and minimize people like excartha's pain. I dare you. I dare you. SoCrates

I couldn't agree with you more, mstar1. The point I was attempting to get at was the leadership, believing in divine revelation, would have used that as one of their excuses. They would have landed on him like the Marines hitting Tripoli saying: Why didn't you listen to God? Now if I were in that guy's shoes, i would have fired back the same question: why didn't you listen to God? He would have told you before he told me. SoCrates

Just before I left TWI2, I was called on the carpet. My twig leader wanted to know why, after a year of ABS, I had stopped. "Don't you realize your stepping on the hose? "From what I've seen there's nothing in the hose," I responded. After much going around about giving and recieving and not recieving, he came up with the excuse: "Your not recieving because your not giving cheerfully." "I'm not a cheerful giver? How do you know that?" "I found a twenty dollar bill all wadded up in the point of the cornucopia." "And you think that was me." He nodded. "Are you sure that was me?" "Positive." "That's odd," I told him. "I always pay ABS with a check." After that I left twig never to return. Of course, nowadays, this whole discussion wouldn't happen. The second he accused me of wadding up the bill, I would have lobbed the believign tennis ball back in his court. "You ever think maybe your just not believing enough?" I think that's one of the things that really sticks in my craw about the ministry's leadership: they waste dno time criticizing your lack of believing, but never looked at the fact that maybe it was their lack of believing causing the event. SoCrates

I'm at a loss to just what leadership expected this guy to do. Let's go over his options: 1. Defend her honor? First, it was two against one. Second, while not mentioned in the text, I don't know many truck drivers that don't carry some type of weapon. So all he would have done was gotten himself seriously wounded or killed and the results would have been the same. 2. Refused to leave her? Then, in all likelihood, they would have resorted to force. Him seriously wounded or killed; results the same. 3. Use power of attorney? Never worked for me. Him: seriously wounded or killed; results the same. 4. Revelation Before they got on the truck? Doesn't that work with leadership who sent them in the first place? Why didn't God warn the leader that he was putting these people in danger? Or wasn't he listening? His choice was probably the best he could have made under the circumstances. Being out of the situation, he was free to contact the police and have them track down the perpetrators. SoCrates

Here's a forum I found discussing the Way Corps, hitchhiking and some of the tragadies that occured. According to the navigation in the left corner, this forum thread is five pages long Way Corps and hitchhiking SoCrates

This folder or on a website or on your computer? SoCrates

That's the same problem we have in many of our corporations. Establishing blame makes people feel better, but it doesn't solve the problem. Identifying and solving the problem solves the problem. Also, usually when blame is established, it doesn't fall on the most guilty, it falls on the most convenient. At least that's how it works in my experience. SoCrates

Here's a thought. Rather than accusing people of their unbelief when something bad happened or they failed to manifest, isn't it the leaderships fault? Saint Vic, in the PLAF class told us you can't go any further than your taught. Apparently, the leadership didn't teach us enough about believing to keep away fear and to bring our hearts desire into manisfestation. If you look at the whole believing thing from the ministry's point of veiw, how did leadership miss this? SoCrates