So_crates

I always wonder about these testimonies. Not that I'm doubting what your saying Geisha, just that my experience is different. I've written before about the time I had to decide between ABS and dinner one weekend. I figured I'd be getting another check from a temp service I worked at so, ABS won. I starved over the weekend. And I would have continued starviung through the week had I not gone to the temp service and mention Division of Hour and Wages a few times to get the money they owed me. It seems they sent my check to an address I lived at five years before, and whoever lived at that address cashed the check and took the money. I couldn't help thinking about the guy who set his table having faith the food would be there and according to him it always came. Here I was trusting God with my firstfruits and a glitch occured somewhere. Oddly, nobody knows where, not my twig leader, not my branch leader, not corps people. Yes, I asked them all. SoCrates

I would agree with you, T-bone, were this a decade or two ago. Thanks to the government's divide and conquer strategy, should a disaster scenerio play out we'd have quite a few hurtles to overcome. We've become too individual, we forgot we're members of a society. During civilized times, its hard enough to get people to obey simple social rules. I lived in Orlando for 12 years: there was no such thing as a line policy down there--everybody cut and went directly to the counter; the lifeboat mentality (every man for himself) ruled the day everyday; and God forbid you have something someone else wanted. they'd either steal it or take it from you at gunpoint. Again, look at New Orleans during Katrina. Gangs took over and ruled the superdome. Anybody who dissented was taken into the nosebleed section and capped in the back of their head for their trouble. Used to be, when you went on vacation you asked your neighbors to watch your house. Anymore, if your gone its probably your neighbors that robbed your house. SoCrates

Socks. I agree with you: this is antisocial behavior. However, there is a part of me that wonders if Saint Vic didn't create this situation. We all know how he was with ministry women. Who's to say he didn't, at one time or the other, attempt to seed the entire female popultion of Shelby County? That would make for a lot of people with grudges. And if one of them just happens to be the wife, sister, or daughter of the police cheif or mayor--well, so much for the police wanting to be involved. I'm not trying to justify their behavior, just suggesting maybe they had reasons for it. Reasons similar to ours. SoCrates

That's one of the reasons I left Florida. I could see things around me weren't heading for a good place. You certainly don't want to be in large city when everything tanks. Too many people in Florida have a lifeboat mentality now. If a depression hit Florida, people would be capping their neighbors for a loaf of bread. So, I moved back up north into the little town my parents moved to to escape Cleveland. Little did I know how much it grew. SoCrates

Okay, you have a major cultural disruption. The authorities are helpless. Do you think a gang or any group of people are going to quietly stay to themselves and starve? How much more when you add guns into the equasion? How would they know? Well one way is gangs will go from house to house ransacking them for anything that will help them to survive. Read about what happened during Katrina to get a better understanding of what would happen if there was some typr of widespread cultural disruption. SoCrates

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Didn't say that. I was just thinking having that much food on hand would be like painting a target on your house. Also, do you think whoever will make a run for that food will be doing it alone? Now money is the commodity that decides wealth. Should a cultural disruption occur, food will decide wealth. You'll see warehouses of food with armed guards posted around them protecting one individuals "wealth." SoCrates

The thing that always bothered me about having a year's supply of food on hand is this: Should something happen, you'd be surrounded by starving people, some of them with guns. So what's to stop them from, uh, commendeering your food? JavaJane, my intention wasn't to freak you out. I just thought knowledge was power. The truth will set you free. SoCrates

The basis of all this hysteria is the New Madrid fault, running near St. Louis. They've been predicting an earthquake along it since the early 90s. The last major earthquake was in the 1800s and was so strong it caused the Mississippi to flow backward. It also rang church bells in New England. For more info: Wikipedia-New Madrid Zone Wikipedia-New Madrid Earthquake-1812 Is the New Madrid Coming to Life SoCrates

Its nothing to be embarassed about. Think of it as a learning experience. In some psychological fields it what's known as inoculation: the process of formulating an opinion about a person before the need for an opinion arises. You saw this with the all-the-other-ministers-admit-Saint-Vic-was-right-in-private-but-they- won't-admit-it-publically-because-of-money schtick. It formulated your opinion about what Saint Vic taught before questions about it could arise. It was the same thing with the devils spirits. Anybody who would be offended or contest a MOG must be posessed. Its one of the ways Saint Vic and his sidekicks controlled the narrative and marginalized decenting voices. Again, before you opened your mouth, the decision was made. So from here on out, IRL, in the workplace or in groups: when you hear "He's crazy" or "He jealous" or "There's something wrong with them" don't let the group decide whether that person should be marginalized, decide for yourself. SoCrates

Don't know if you guys saw this on the Inner Sanctum thread, but I figured it was worth posting one more time. SoCrates

Let's see: 1) Passion Yep, Saint Vic was passionate for every woman in the ministry 2) Unity Yep, Saint Vic tried to unify himself with every woman in the ministry 3) Servanthood If you weren't a woman, in Saint Vic's minstry, you served him 4) Humility You were expected to humble yourself before Saint Vic the Great and Powerful 5) Thankfulness You should be thankful Saint Vic had passion for every woman in the ministry to the point of wanting to unify with them and that you had the opportunity to serve and humble yourself in his presence Yep, works for me. SoCrates

Well, you can throw darts at the larger one. SoCrates

One of the things that's recently crossed my mind is: did the MOG do something to make the people turn their collective backs on him? Seems to me we were getting only one side of the story. And with Saint Vic, Craigmeister, and Rip-N-Bark to fill in the blanks on the other side... SoCrates

When you understand the ministry wasn't about "Gawd" but about evil, the motives become clear. It seems to me a lot of the ministry was nothing more than evil in a "Gawd" wrapper. SoCrates

The way I'm looking at it is: Saint Vic said he wished he was the man that he knew himself to be. Well, combine that with what he told G33r(?) in POP, that Craigmeister was "going to ruin the whole thing." One interpretation was he saw his con coming to an end. Another is he was wishing he could perpetuate even greater cons. SoCrates

And once again, ladies and gentlemen, he dodges answering the question. As I recall, he brought up the subject of personal agendas. So, why does he need to take the focus off himself and put it on us? I wonder what his agenda is. Why won't he be honest about it? Why won't he flatly state it? SoCrates

Sorry, guys, I didn't mean to mispost. I thought about posting this in the doctrinal section, but since it was about Way doctrine.... Again, please accept my apologies. SoCrates

I think we're looking at the last epoch of the individual. With computers everything can be monitored, everything can be regulated. Without individuals society is doomed. Like or not we need people that think outside the box. If you ever doubt that think of The Way as a society on a smaller scale. They're tanking because of groupthink, everybody is Waybrained so there are no new, fresh ideas, only those Saint Vic presented 30-40 years ago. SoCrates

Anybody who's been in a university English department knows what Saint Vic was doing to the bible. That's why there are so many thesises (thesii?) on what the white whale in Moby Dick ment. I'm afraid the only person that can answer the real meaning of the white whale is Melville and if you asked him he's probably tell you he included it because it sounded good. SoCrates

The advanced spiritual principle? Easy: You gave us the Franklin, now we have an excuse to keep it and not give you jack. Or finders keepers, losers weepers. SoCrates

Well, you know, have to keep the MOG of the moment in opulence. Then there's the pay outs for lawyers on pending lawsuits, and the payouts on settled lawsuits. And the dwindling number of followers. Not to mention the followers who are below the poverty line. After all that, where would they get the money to upgdate computers and programs? (Besides, didn't the Craigmeister say something about the internet being of the devil, what's that make the computers that make the internet available?) SoCrates Before I would have dropped the subject and accepted the answer. Now I would probably tell tell him: "Thrill me. Pretend I'm as spiritually heavy as you are. Now explain." SoCrates

Is it possible we missed the point? Rather than remorse, maybe he ment some of his greatest cons would never see fruition. Maybe he was lamenting, "So much still to pull and there's no time" SoCrates