So_crates

There's a legal axiom that says if one statement is a lie, the whole thing may be a lie. He never did work on a PhD, he went to a diploma mill to get his degree. Now, if he'll lie about this, why should I believe anything else in this passage?

As you also remember, we were taught that the whole purpose of research was to get back to when "holy men of God spoke moved by the Holy Ghost." In other words, the originials, in theory, were perfect and that's what we were working back toward. You also know most of the PLAF collaterals were transcribed, right? Which means they're the originals. Which means with the PLAF collaterals, if they are God-breathe, were are at the "holy men of god spoke moved by the Holy Ghost" phase. Therefore, they should be perfect, which they're not, as you admitted above.

I think they're trying to get at how does something that's God-breathe have errors?

What I experience was nothing compared to what many others in this forum experienced. However, as to proving themselves. How much of a chance did they give a person to prove themself before a facemelting? Before they marked and avoided them? They've had plenty of opportunity to prove themselves, years and years of opportunities. How many people do you think approached them to tell them where they were off and, rather than listen to them, they had those people marked and avoided? The Scorpion And The Frog A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.” The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?” Replies the scorpion: “It’s my nature…”

What color? Bull brown

This always amazes me. They wreck how many lives? They abuse how many people? They refuse to listen to their iniquities for how many years? Then, when it's obvious the ship is sinking, they think all it takes is a an apology and all will be fogiven and it'll all go back to business as usual. Tell me, if somebody robs your house, you may forgive them, but are you gonna let the front door unlocked? If someone stole money from you, you may forgive them, but are you going to let your cash lay around when they come visiting? If they were sincerely sorry, they would resign and put the ministry in the hands of someone who will run it the way the claim they will.

Only if your name was Art Painter... Or you told me you taught cubist art...

Actually, every statement is lucid and been arrive at through careful thought and logic. For example, you claim I'm jeering when I ask how a con man would approach scriptures. If your going to claim believer will get one interpretation and non-believers another, then asking how a con man running a con would interpret scriptures is a legitimate question Then of course the question becomes did Saint Vic interpret scriptures like a con man running a con? A geometry teacher? Then you should be familiar with logic and scientific method. And the above should show you lack of scientific method.

And what of the attitude of someone that wants to con followers into believing he's a MOG? How would that affect how scriptures are interpreted? And naturally, a cornfield con man who declares, "I know this is true, I just haven't found the manuscript to back it up yet," will be able to get at what the scriptures actually say. Yah, without scripture backing that what the ministry calls private interpretation. I bet it sit on his desk for 15 years. Why not do what he's done every other time: Either claim God ttold him and make something up or look for someone to plagerize.

I'll blow your theory out of the water right now. I've never been a Saint Vic worshipper. As a matter of fact, I had many a person try to tell me how charismatic he was. Maybe its borderline Asperger"s, but I've looked at Saint Vic and thought,"Him?" I don't think worship energy has turned into hate. I think your seeing the same reaction as anybody who's been betrayed by a trust. Remember, people have been conned. How would you expect them to react?

First off, my money is on the collaterals not being god-breathe Second of all, as I went through all the trouble of showing you, your whole argument centers around God owning all intellectual property, which makes Saint Vic's theft of others sweat and livelihood okay. As I further proved to you, God owns the earth and all within it, therefore: According to your rationalization, robbing people and stealing cars is okay also. But, you say that's stupid. Since both realms are owned by God, what make theft in one okay, but not in the other?

Now extend that to the song and dance you've been giving us about Saint Vic's robbing others work. It's just as wrong

Its too bad you depend on only the ministry to get your knowledge of God. Psalms 24:01: The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; Now, do you believe what the Bible says? So we're back to my origional question: God owns the earth, too. Does that give me the right to rob someone? Does that give me the right to steal a car?

Not long ago, my brother was always late. After waiting a couple of time for hime for a few hours, I told him: "Be as late as you want, but if your beyond 15 minutes, don't expect me to be waiting. His response was like yours: "You don't understand. I don't percieve time the way you do." My response: "Try driving down the wrong side of the road, then when the cop pulls you over, tell him you don't percieve driving the way he does." Your opinion, my opinion, makes no difference. The law states who intellectual property belongs to. So your excuse is God owns all intellectual property. God also owns everything on earth, too. Does that give me the right to rob someone? To steal someones car? If God owns everything, then why Thou shall not steal? Sounds like a lot of rationalization to make Saint Vic's robbery legitimate.

I'd like to hear how you claim PLAF is the most bootlegged video in history, yet you refuse to acknowledge the theft taking place by those doing the bootlegging. However, it is ironic: Saint Vic stole from a wide variety of source to construct the class and now bootleggers are stealing the PLAF from the ministry.

Don't you mean hundreds? Which probably boils down to tens. Meanwhile, by your own admission (Did you know that PFAL is possibly the most bootlegged video item in history?, remember?) over 21 million are stealing the class. When I took PLAF, it was $67. Let's see, 21 million at $67 a pop. Yah, people really love the ministry and the class. They love it so much they're cheating it out of $201 million in funds. Saint Vic must be rolling in his grave.

You mean even more than Avatar? (Which was bootlegged 21 million times since its release.) https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/avatar-most-pirated-movie-all-time-247499 You claim its the most bootlegged, which would mean more than 21 million. Personally, I don't think the ministry has that many followers. Besides, bootlegging is stealing, you know. So, your saying more than 21 million followers respect the ministry so much that they repeatedly violate the Eighth Commandment, right? Thou shall not steal, right?

My comments are after the ----: Weren't you the one talking about credibility a few post back. I've asked you three time about an informal poll you've claimed to have done. Specifically: So, why are you reluctant to provide further information about your informal poll? Like how many thousands? I posted that I interviewed hundreds. ---Okay, hundreds. That's a far cry from thousands. What questions asked?I posted that most there were 3 questions, and a 4th was added in 1998. ---No, you posted question stated vaguely. I'm wanting specifics. Not (1) what went right, (2) what went wrong, and (3) what can we do about it. How specifically did you ask for the information. Where did you get thousands of grads names I never posted that. Read it again. ---Never said you posted that. It's a logical question that comes out of the course of the conversation. Now, rather than dodge, what's the answer? and numbers I posted through interpolation the second time, the first post I left it as an obvious inference for an alert reader. Please read it again, with coffee and phone off. ---What was that you were saying about arguments directed at the man a few post back? However, your snarkiness doesn't get you off the hook it's a legitimate question deserving a legitimate answer. So try again, without interpolation. Give me a straight answer. Or don't you have one. What did you do with the information I posted (again through inference) that I pondered it deeply, and later incorporated it into 5000 posts on GreasSpot for 5 years. I got many positive e-mails and PMs from positive grads who didn't want to post or even read much of the negativity. They were repulsed by it, but loved my posts. Radio stations and TV stations figure that for every POSITIVE letter someone takes the time to write, there are MANY people who think exactly the same way, but who don't take or have the time. This is another form of interpolation that polster hip people know. ----So, we get to the real reason your here: To impress others in your twig. However, I do find it funny that they complain about negativity, yet they still come here to read the posts. And isn't it amusing that those who whine about negativity directed at The Way are being so negative about GS. What's up? Don't like the facts getting out? Now, here's my problem: You mention an informal poll. When asked for further information, you dodge. I posted a lot you seem to have missed. ----Or I didn't miss anything and your dodging again. Maybe if you'd give straight answers to questions rather than going off on irrelevant tangents, thing would go a lot smoother. You bring up other instances. Then you admit the thousands were actually hundreds. I posted that UP FRONT. There was no "then you posted" to it. ---This is apparently a definition of "up front" I'm not familiar with. It wasn't until I started questioning you "thousands" claim that you admitted it was only hundreds. That's hardly "up front" Where do you think your credibility is with me? I posted it. Zero for informal poll, zero for formal, perfect poll. You can interpolate the rest. ---You forgot zero with people who aren't "up front" with me Why should I believe any other instance you gave me? Well, when peoples' broken cisterns start running dry, they often try out something really new. Make a mental note, that if all goes South for you someday, MAYBE one of those PDF collaterals that are abundantly available would do you some good. --- Again, what was that you were saying about arguments directed at the man a few post back? Yah, PLAF, it did wonders the 3+ times I took it--Not! As did the Intermediate--Not! Just so you know: I will never have anything to do with PLAF or The Way again. What you think? I want people around who are going to nose into my affairs? Who have nothing better to do then yell at me? Who expect me to hand over my income? You think I want false friends who claim we are a family, then at the first sign of trouble they disappear? No thanks, you can keep it. However, when you finally get around to admitting to yourself what Saint Vic was really all about, GS will be here. This board has close to 18,000 members. Most of them are unhappy with PLAF. I think that more than the hundreds you claim you polled. That's really interesting... sort of. But I have to get to work. I'd love to hear more of your 18,000 voice choir, though. ---And your "hundreds" naturally aren't a chorus all collectively whining the same tune? Keep up the huberis, ace. Pride comes before the fall

Weren't you the one talking about credibility a few post back. I've asked you three time about an informal poll you've claimed to have done. Specifically: So, why are you reluctant to provide further information about your informal poll? Like how many hundreds? What questions asked? Where did you get hundreds of grads names and numbers? What did you do with the information? Now, here's my conundrum: You mention an informal poll. When asked for further information, you dodge. You bring up other instances. Then you admit the thousands were actually hundreds. Where do you think your credibility is with me? Why should I believe any other instance you gave me? This board has 17,822 members. Most of them are unhappy with PLAF (If they weren't they wouldn't be here). I think that more than the hundreds you claim you polled.

Your doing a nice two-step, Mike, but I'm getting a little tired of dancing. Stop dodging the questions: So, why are you reluctant to provide further information about your informal poll? Like how many thousands? What questions asked? Where did you get thousands of grads names and numbers? What did you do with the information?

No pretending to it, dude. I can phrase the questions equally in such a way every one of those grads you claim raved about it, will complain about it. That's the problem with informal polls, people pretty much get the information they want. Or have you never heard that everyone wants to think of themselves as cooperative so they give experimenters and pollers what they think they want to hear. Or have you never heard of the Hawthorne Effect? Second, most people still in The Way will laud PLAF to high heaven. Only when they leave will they express their true feeling about it. Why? Partially social pressure. Mostly the ministry doesn't encourage free thought (as your unwillingness to acknowledge Saint Vic's evil nature proves time and time again.) So, why are you reluctant to provide further information about your informal poll? Like how many thousands? What questions asked? Where did you get thousands of grads names and numbers? What did you do with the information?

Informal is right, and therefore not accurate. As anyone who has dealt with polls knows: How you ask the question has a lot to do with the results you get. You, of course, understand that "What blessed you about the class?" will garner a different response than "Did the class bless you?" That's why most polling companies list the questions they asked on their website. The don't list vague statements like "(1) what went right, (2)what went wrong, and (3)what can we do about it." So, what were the exact questions you asked? Second, when did you take this poll? Right after they took the class perhaps? And what did you expect them to say after they spent all that money, Go back and retake the poll now, I'll bet your results will be very different. Also, how many thousand? Where did you get the grads names? Somehow I find it hard to believe Way Nash would give you the names and numbers of thousands of grads. Further, I find it harder to believe you have nothing better to do than call people on the phone conducting an informal poll.

In my opinion, it's more like a syndrome suggested by Hunter Thompson refering to jackrabbits. I'll let Hunter, from Fear And Loathing On The Campaign Trail '72, lay it out: I have spent enough time in jack rabbit country to know that most of them lead pretty dull lives; they are bored with their daily routines: eat, f#ck, sleep, hop around a bush now and then....No wonder some of them drift over the line into cheap thrills once in a while; there has to be a powerful adrenalin rush in crouching by the side of a road, waiting for the next set of headlights to come along, then streaking out of the bushes with split-second timing and making it across to the other side just inches in front of the speeding front wheels.

And they all have the same goal: complete and absolute control over your life.