So_crates

How does an angel disputing the devil prove God has a budget? Maybe it's a universal rule that like battles like. */*/* How does God's budget fit into that hedge of protection that's supposed to be around each of us? */*/* Note: Mike says he's not married to the concept, yet he still insist on using "budget" even though he knows it causes confusion.

This presupposes I want to meet with you. Have your answering machine call my answering machine. They'll do lunch.

To which I'd firmly agree.

The questions are rhetorical. Part of what I was attempting to do was getting at another presupposition: The Way has the Word of God. Does The Way have the Word of God? How do we know? If The Way has the Word of God, why don't people act like it or follow it's dictates? This, of course, goes along with the other two presuppositions which were never answered: Was Saint Vic a MOG? How do we know? Did Saint Vic work for God? Again, how do we know?

I agree. Just because something influences us doesn't prove a lack of free will. We still have a choice of whether we bend with the influence or not. But, you ask, what if we're unaware of the influence. Well, that doesn't reflect on free will. It reflects on the influencer. Your ability to act or not act remains, it's just been bypassed. Another reason educating yourself is so important.

Traveling across Ohio, Indiana, Illinois with my parents in my younger days, we would often stop at a rest stop that had sulfur saturated water. The main characteristic of it being what was described as a "rotten egg smell*. Luckily, if you held your nose, it tasted like normal water. Also, as an aside, that's how Fabreze works': it prevents the sulfur atoms from binding to the molecule. So I guess every obnoxious odor has a sulfur atom.

Odd, isn't it? I would think if the BOD and the ministry executives truely believed the ministry had the Word of God, they would fight tooth and nail to keep it pure. Instead, they bite their tongues and go along with it. Also, where were the gift ministries? Aren't the prophets tasked with the job of keeping the MOG on the straight and narrow?

Going deeper into Athletes of the Spirit lore, here is the scene from Stayin' Alive the the ministry production pays homage to:

On YouTube, no less...

Saint Vic stated in the class that when God gives revelation it's complete. So if God told Saint Vic there were manuscripts we haven't discovered, why didn't he also tell Saint Vic were they were? i think if God was going to say anything to Saint Vic, it would be: "What are you doing to my daughters?"

Playing pigeon chess are you Mike? Don’t play chess with a pigeon. It’ll just knock over the pieces and then strut around like it won the game.

Yah, you can see how concerned Saint Vic was at losing his rewards...

Looks to me more like he recognizes Saint Vic's BS when he sees it.

See? Still using words that you know obscure the theory. If you want a better way to express the theory, maybe you should strart there.

Projecting, aren't we? Who of the two of us has been repeatedly called out for condescending? And who of the two of us made the claim that he was lovingly condescending like God? And who of the two of us is still in the Way? Condemnation? From you?!?! How do you get your head through doorways? You're not important enough to make me feel condemnation. I rest my case. Good idea. Why don't you give YOUR condescending attitude a rest? As I've proven above, it's YOU with the rotten attitude. Hint: Look up the meaning of "thrashing". Yah, sure. That's why your still using "budget" and "double doors" even though you know they clouds the issue, right? You've been harping on this for five months, ample time to find other words, if your intention was to find a better way to express your idea. Mike, language can either illuminate or obscure an idea. You seem to want to obscure more than illuminate. "Budget". "Double doors." Five months. 'Nuff said. Please go back and read some of YOUR previous post with this better perspective in YOUR mind.

Well, my understanding was the bible. But, experience tells me the Word means his translation of what the bible says.

Just thrashing about an idea, huh? So in your mind everybody but you is wrong and you have to beat what is right into them.

But...but...but...Saint Vic claimed the Word was logically logical.

Like I said, how can God claim we're more than conquerors, when he barely eeks by? Can you say BS? I knew that you could.

God won, but just barely?!?!? How can God claim we are more than conquerors, when he's winning, just barely? God is an infinite being going against a finite one. There's no just barely to it. There's no just eeking by. God wins in a landslide. To the "read only" audience: See? This is what PLAF teaches: God doesn't more than conquerors, he barely eeks by.

So you're trying to tell me God is irrational. So when Saint Vic claimed in the class something was logically logical he was BSing us, right? True to form, you refuse to answer the question presented. The chapter you use could have been mistranslated or added. It doesn't fit with what we know about God. Once again, how does God protect us by deferring to lesser beings? What has God to gain by deferring to lesser beings? Still doesn't answer how God protects us by deferring to lesser beings. (You also notice God placed the flaming sword?) That's because you're so enamored with your theory you can't look at it objectively. And, once again, what does God gain by limiting these interventions? Now why would God need to limit himself to partially insulate the senses world from the devil? The devil is already limited, as he is a created being. So God can limit the devil and still have unlimited power himself. He's God after all. He makes the rules. So your presumption is you're right and everyone else is wrong. Real meek, Mike. You wonder why you don't get meekness? It's because you don't give meekness.

Or, to put it another way, what does God gain by deferring to a lesser power? Put in Wayspeak: What profits God, an infinitely powerful being, by deferring his power to a finitely powerful being, angels?

So it's your contention that God--a being of infinite power--turns to beings of finite power--angels--to get things done. And, as you've previously stated, God does this to protect us. How does deferring to a lesser power protect us? To put it in human terms, God has the drop on the devil, as he's packing heat. The devil pulls out a shiv and flashes it. God then tosses away his pistol and also protects us with a knife. As if God couldn't protect all of us with a flick of his wrist if he chose to. Why would God limit himself? I, however, know why this conspiracy theory got started. Saint Vic was afraid he would be exposed as the faker he is, so he had to make up an excuse why all those followers weren't living the abundant life like he promised.

I would think that if God would teach Saint Vic anything, the first thing he would teach Saint Vic was to keep his pants zipped. Just as I would think if God ever audibly spoke to Saint Vic God's first words would always be, "What are you doing to my daughters?"

What makes you think they want to improve? They got your Franklin; they have no motive to improve. They wouldn't listen to anyone in 1986, what would motivate them to listen to anyone now? The ministry has always been: we give the orders, it's your job to get with the program. And you think they want to improve? Honestly, if one of us came to you and told you we want to help you teach the bible better in the future would you listen?