So_crates

Well, one thing for sure: you love lying to yourself. Your hero worship of Saint Vic has obviously blinded you. Saint Vic tells you your happy and everyone else is miserable and you claim to be happy and assume everyone else is miserable The sad truth is you obviously don't see how really miserable you are. Want proof? How many times in the course of these threads have I whined about someone pouncing on me? Accused someone of judging me? Claimed someone was trying to trick me? So who's the miserable one? Hint: Your projecting your misery onto me. You claim your happy with the text? So where are all those text quotes? I would think after 12 years of study you'd have the collaterals memorized. You claim PLAF has done so much for you. So why do you have more fears than Bayer has aspirins? So then why do you keep ignoring the facts? Why make cornball excuses for obviously bad behavior? Unlike you I'm happy with the truth. With the truth I don't have to ignore facts or make up cornball excuses. Nor do I have to whine about people pouncing on me, judging me, or attempting to trick me. Your misery is written all over everything you write. Like the truth about Saint Vic, you refuse to see it. Want proof? You've been trying to sell PLAF for over 12 years now, how many takers? If you were so delieriously happy, people would be lined up outside your door. You think people your trying to sell can't see your misery? If it comes through cold type just imagine what it does in person.

This is a continuation of the above post 45 minutes ago, Mike said: You wrote: “yet you can't see the devil spirits in Saint Vic?” Really! I’m supposed to operate a manifestation of the spirit by reading posts here to administer to situations that happened a thousand miles and 35 years ago? >No. I can’t see that well. I don't need to see that far back. Saint Vic's record speaks for itself. Alcoholism=devil spirit Sex addiction=devil spirit Cancer= (according to Saint Vic) devil spirit If I remember correctly, Saint Vic said anything you have no control over is a devil spirit. So by Saint Vic's own admisssion he had devil spirits

Yet you waste no time accusing others of doing something that exists only in your mind, i.e..The Pure Evil model. It's like this: if I fall into your hero worship trap, then I have to make excuses for Saint Vic's evil acts that make Mr. Potatohead look like Stephen Hawkins. Because I realize he had more evil in him then good, I can accept the evil as par for the course, without excuses. And here are a few links on hero worship The Danger of Hero Worship https://www.theodysseyonline.com/hero-worship Hero Worship Always Ends Poorly https://goodmenproject.com/the-good-life/men-and-heroism/hero-worship-always-ends-poorly/ Says the person who claims its acceptable to steal intellectual property, but not physical property. Maybe you should check your logic and fix it before criticizing mine. You mean like when you judge others, like Twinky, of trying to trick you. Too bad your so steeped in hero worship you don't want to turn that judging on Saint Vic. The bible says I have to forgive, there's nothing about forgetting the evil someone does Yah, so unlike preparing this post. Your dishonesty is showing again

Really, so why all the excuses for his evil behavior? Why tag everyone with "The Pure Evil" model. Sure signs of hero worship I take it here you attempting to rationalize your position, as you always do. These are not signs of hero worship. Check the links I provided. So Christ in you doesn't count as Christ being present? The uncertainty is with you. Most of the people in this forum don't have that problem. Name a verse that's translated radically different ways. We've already found manuscripts by contemporary authors that have sent the Saint Vic house of cards crashing down. After all, he stole the text from them. But somehow Saint Vic solved it all, and by robbing texts from evryone of those scholarly offerings your putting down, no less. Not authoritive in you mind. As many bible quotes on stealing, on not forcing yourself on women, and on not continuing in sin are repeatedly ignored by you. What's odd is many of these verses you ignore are also found in PLAF. Saying Saint Vic sinned is like saying sharks eat. We're not talking about nicking candy bars, we're talking about doing things that hurt and do psychological damage to other people. But hey he's your hero, so he has an all purpose excuse. And let's all forget Romans 6:1b-2: Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. Paul didn't say go ahead sin, after all, it's all grace. So how many times is a sin acceptable? Well, Saint Vic answered that. How many chances did he give a person before a face melting? Before they were marked and avoided? Then why don't you quote the text? Your more than happy to offer text from the Book of Bad Excuses for Saint Vic, but when it comes to quoting text from PLAF its crickets and tumbleweeds. No, what you get from Saint Vic is an excuse to stop searching. Which is your right. But its not sanitized. As you've seen its corrupted with pre-emptive strikes, excuses for bad behavior, and text stolen from other people who did all the work Don't care what John S thinks, he's not here. So your accusing others of having devil spirits, yet you can't see the devil spirits in Saint Vic? What was that you were saying about spiritual sniffers a few posts back? Now, you've spent how much bandwidth on trying to prove to yourself you have no hero worship for Saint Vic. Did it work? You didn't prove anything to me.

So, your able to scroll back to get your "Pure Evil" post but your not able to scroll back to figure out what the subject is. Your dishonesty is showing. Then you wonder why you have no credibility here. How much do you think people are going to listen to someone that doesn't listen to them? Do you think those pro-PLAF people think when they see you play head games like this? See how easy it is: And here are a few links on hero worship The Danger of Hero Worship https://www.theodysseyonline.com/hero-worship Hero Worship Always Ends Poorly https://goodmenproject.com/the-good-life/men-and-heroism/hero-worship-always-ends-poorly/ Seems Mike has fallen into the trap of hero worship. He claims otherwise, but the facts bear out the truth Saint Vic stealing others work is acceptable, he says, because everything intellectual belongs to God, so theft didn't exist Saint Vic's violating women is acceptable, he says, because quarterbacks always get the girl. Check the above hero worship links, note where they say people's heros do no wrong. Then look at his two rationalizations for unacceptable behavior. Don't get me wrong, you have the right to worship anybody or anything you want to. Just be honest about it.

You don't try to fix cognitive dissonance. Rather, you give people a clear choice. The word of Saint Vic says it makes the bible perfect so "it fits like a hand in a glove." Many of those pro-PLAF grads Mike keep alluding to believe that. Yet, Paul, in Eph 4:28, tells us not to steal. He doesn't say don't steal physical property, but intellectual property steal all you want. Further, by claiming it's acceptable to steal in the intellectual realm. but not in the physical realm, your showing those pro-PLAF grads how irrational Saint Vic's word is. After all, didn't Saint Vic, in discussing the Garden of Eden and the transfer of earth from man to the devil, imply that God was "logically logical"? So, tell me pro-PLAF grads what's so logical about accepting intellectual theft but not physical theft?

I'm aware of that. But, Mike invalidated his own argument. He did so when it was sprovrn that all physical things belong to God. As all physical things belong to God, too, then it's okay to steal a car or his PLAF book. As you recall, Mike scoffed at that, yet he couldn't explain why stealing was okay in one realm but not the other. So his argument is invalid. He can refuse to accept all he wants. Until he can give me a valid argument why theft is acceptable in one realm and not the other, I do not accept his rationalization.

I'm not going to do anything until you answer the post the night before. Experience tells me your just trying to muddy the waters. Meanwhile, you like ideas. How about principle? For a change I'll give you something to think about. What kind of man claims to be a MOG and steals others work word for word then claims them as his own drinks Drambukie like a drowning man gulping air forces himself on women Now consider the above from a principle standpoint. Now we'll see how much you really want to talk ideas

I can see that. Your world is so positive and free of baloney that every other sentence you spout is some fear of what somone is going to do to you. You fear people pouncing on you, you accuse people of trying to trick you. You whine about people judging you. You have more fears than Hefner has Bunnies. Now, how are these part of that positive lifestyle you have? How do they fit into everything PLAF has done for you? And oddly enough, you leave that positive baloney free life to come here where you claim people are negative, judge you, pounce on you and try to trick you. You did claim you were honest, didn't you? Then why the dishonesty? Don't try to make a living as a poker player. You read like the morning paper. Your only interest in ideas is to try and pettifog all the evil Saint Vic did. That's probably why you get no takers on the ideas bandwagon. You can be sure I won't waste my time thinking about it. Why should I? Do you think I can't see its your attempting to derail me from the fact you don't quote PLAF and the bible. When you start giving straight answers, then maybe I'll consider thinking about it. Now we'll see how important ideas really are to you. People may be more willing to discus ideas when they get straight answers. But then your unwilling to give straight answers, so..

Yah, we've seen how you admit when he was wrong he was wrong. Just look at the last couple of pages involving his forcing himself on women.I've gotten straighter answers from a Silly Straw. Where's all that honesty now? You mean the Pure Evil model that comes more from YOU than from us? You know, when all you got is a hammer everything looks like a nail. So I suppose when all you got is excuses, everything looks like people are claiming Pure Evil. I would guess all you think about is Saint Vic. In the past three threads, when it comes to Saint Vic you spin like a wet load of laundry, yet PLAF and bible quotes are fewer than fritters at a fat farm. Seems to me if you were half the PLAF kahuna you claim to be collateral and bible quotes would dapple your posts like shade on a boulevard.

No, you claim its a different world. As has been proven here several times, PLAF was a series of pre-emptive strikes, rationalizations for unacceptable behavior, and excuses for failure. More than anything else PLAF was the ideology The Way offered as a reason for committing their crapola. Once again: Solzhenitsyn said in The Gulag Archipelago: Ideology – that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and other’s eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations. And TWI used Weirwille Over the World (WOW). The vehicle for this was PLAF.

Yah, and the Nazis were too innocent to see what they were doing to the Jews, too. /sarc The Roman soldiers were too innocent to see what they were doing to Christ./sarc Closing your eyes and refusing to see evil is not innocence, it's good men doing nothing, the thing evil thrives upon. Which means it did in some way, he just refuses to admit it. Nothing is all, never, or no way. Do those kings force themselves on the girls? Do those kings go through great measures to hide the fact they forced themselves on the girls? I'm impressed by the mental gymnastics someone will go through to prevent seeing evil where it is.

Thank you, sensei, you've touched me deeply. I can now see how a person who has an affair and changes his ways compares with someone who repeatedly gives "roofies" and insists on continuing in his sin.

So your blaming Twinky for your failure to communicate. It's not our job to figure out when your using abbreviated grammar. Nor is it our job to guess what you mean. It's YOUR job to communicate so someone can understand you. The responsibility of the communication lies with YOU, not Twinky. Me thinks thou protest too much. Scary people don't have to tell you how scary they are. Nor do smart people have to tell you how smart they are. Nor do innocent people have to tell you how innocent they are. People who have to tell me how innocent or honest they are I find suspicious. Honesty or innocence, like intellegence, is made obvious by your actions. An honest person would have answered Twinky honestly, not play games, not dodge, not pettifog. You just proved wht I was claiming: in your parlance, Saint Vic was saying, "I'm the authority (king) who's going to stop me?" Want proof? Look at his actions.

So now your denying the context of the statement "All women in the kingdom belong to the king." I notice while you denied the context I made, you failed to present the context you think it was in. Once again, we're back to your circular logic, The statement says what I think it means because I said it means what I think it means. Innocent people don't play head games. Innocent people don't dance people around. As I've said before, the more someone dances you around, the more likely they're trying to pull something over on you.

All women in the kingdom belong to the king has nothing to do with peoples choices in pairing off. It has to do with Saint Vic rationalizing why he could do anything he wanted to ministry women. The statement "All the women in the kingdom belong to the king" was not presented in the context of someone wanting to pair off with David. It was presented in the context of David being able to exercise a rationalized right (rationalized right because there's no Mosaic law to back him up) on Bethsheba (after he saw her finishing her bath). So, Bathsheba's choice on who to pair off with never even entered the discussion. So, as always, your attempting to interject something that isn't there. It's amazing how many wong conclusions you can come to. No, it reflects Saint Vic's rationalization and mindset. As , once again, where did it come from? The context doesn't suggest your claim. Well, so far we have Saint Vic as perverse and a moron. Because he twisted it in the worst way. Read LOSING THE WAY and you'll see how Saint Vic twisted that statement into a pretzel.

So then your saying Saint Vic was a moron. As Wordwolf pointed out, there's no such Mosaic law, so where did it come from? It was Saint Vic offering a rationalization for his behavior.

Why would she bother? Your hoisted by your own petard as frequent as Taylor Swift falls in love. No, your into trying to sell PLAF as theopneustos. So tell me, since its in PLAF books, is the line "All the women in the kingdom belong to the king" theopneustos?

(pointing above and to the right of Mike) Look, Mike, there goes the point. First we're not talking about a football team or a corporate board room, we're talking about the family of God and a supposed MOG who's supposed to have a more disipline than natural men on a football team or in a corporate board room. Further, he's supposed to be an example for the rest of us. I mean, if he doesn't obey God with his moral sins, why should I obey God in my venial sins? Second, we're talking about an ideology that made it all possible.

Disagree all you want, its right there "line by line and word by word." In the chapter about King David, Saint Vic goes into his "All women in the kingdom belong to the king" spiel, right? And what ideology do you think Saint Vic used to justify violating the ministry's woman?

So what your saying is they give lip service to PLAF, but don't believe it. After all, if they believed it they'd be hear pointing out where we're getting it wrong, wouldn't they? What's that? We're getting it right and nobody wants to hear it. Wait a tic. Are you trying to tell me they're afraid. But I thought fear was negative believing. Aren't they supposed to proclaim Weirwille Over the World (WOW) boldly? So why don't you really love the unlovable and preach Christianity on an atheist site? Here, if your honest with yourself, your trying to sell PLAF. What you fail to realize is you have an uphill battle. It's one thing to sell a vacuum cleaner nobody's ever used. It's quite another thing to try an sell a vacuum cleaner everyone your pitching has used and found it to be a piece of junk (and blaming the manufacturer is no excuse). Over the top negative people complaining about over the top negativity. Are these the same people who gave others faace meltings without a second thought? Who marked and avoided others? And they're whining? So you have a history of trying to ice skate uphill... You mean our attempt to get the truth out about Saint Vic? Speaking of truth: Mike said: But then my anger faded as I got away from TWI. I had access to the videos, but I hardly looked at them.... just for nostalgia again. It wasn't until 1998 that I took a second fresh look at the books. Yah, books with texts stolen by a guy that could pour himself into a Drambulie bottle. Books that contain an ideology that justified the abuse of others and the violation of women. What could go wrong?

What your misssing is that it was the ideology of PLAF that made the crapola of TWI possible. Solzhenitsyn said in The Gulag Archipelago: Ideology – that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and other’s eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations. And TWI used Weirwille Over the World (WOW). The vehicle for this was PLAF.

It also flies in the face of God being no respecter of persons, meaning He would not give one person more than He gives another.

So your saying some of us got five ounces of spirit, while others got 10 pounds?