So_crates
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Everything posted by So_crates
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How about this: free will and determinism are both correct. Free will from a human point of view. Determinism from an eternal point of view.
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You need to get the whole concept of teaching out of your head, that's top dog under dog thinking. Sharing information, however, occurs among equals.
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This is my impressed look.
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5. Mike's insistence on "teaching" us. Since when do you teach anybody anything by ramming information down their throat?
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If this were any more ironic Andrew Lloyd Webber would be writing songs about it.
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And what pieces in the wind did the teachers draw there ideas from? You follow the chain back far enough and you get to a person with an original idea. Edison with the light bulb. The doctor who realized germs made people sick. The Chinese with fireworks (from which we get modern rocketry). Which pieces in the wind were they drawing from?
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Pieces in the wind, huh? Which pieces did the Chinese use to invent gunpowder? Which pieces did Newton use to understand gravity? Which pieces did Tesla use to invent the radio? Which pieces were used to invent LEDs?
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Check out Jeremiah 32:27 sometime: Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh, is there anything too hard for me? God created the universe and the laws there within. If he want to talk to someone without spirit, guess what he can make a universal law to do? Or was his foreknowledge on the fritz that day?
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So naturally, being an expert in "spiritual mechanics" you're going to tell us how it works. How do you know how it works? Do you understand God designed the physical world to help us understand the spiritual world? God says we're a family, so to help us understand that he created families. God says he is a father, to help us understand that he created fathers. The other posters just explained something to you in that "logically logic" that Saint Vic claimed he used in PLAF. Then you did the exact opposite of your above complaint and refused to give it 35 seconds before you knee-jerked "this is too little PLAF" and let it cloud your understanding. Give it some time. This is one thing that puts me off. For Saint Vic, anything was acceptable, just claim it was "spiritual." Don't let the sun go down on your anger, but "spiritual" anger is okay. Want to sin? Just stay right in your spirit and then sin all you want. Common sense tells us one thing, but, guess what, the spiritual world doesn't follow common sense.
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YOUR message, not GOD'S?
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No, what I'm describing is a perfect God dealing with fallible human beings. You mean to tell me, God, in his foreknowledge couldn't see that errors would creep in and couldn't adjust the text accordingly? If your claim is true, then you just nullified the reason for PLAF. God would have gotten it right the first time and there would be no need for revision or God having to waste his time sticking around helping the reader get the right interpretation.
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So, you're born again, so you're going to heaven. According to Mike, regardless of the sins you commit, God will still give you "big jobs". According to you, Christ "works" and "appears" despite our sins when we have faith. So, the point of studying the bible and living a good Christian life is...what? To, as Mike claims, amass as many Scooby snacks as we can?
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So, how is this any different? God gives his revelation to a man, the man interprets what God meant. The reader reads what the man wrote, the reader interprets what the man meant that God meant.
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Don't you mean the reader's interpretation of the author's interpretation of what the author meant? That's why there's so many different term papers and dissertations on what the white whale in Moby Dick means. Interestingly enough, if you asked Melville why a white whale, he'd probably shrug his shoulders and say, "It sounded good."
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And this has what to do with what I asked you. I didn't ask you if God would know I asked you if we would know. If we don't know then God could make the person with many rewards a captain and the person with little rewards a private and the individuals would have no idea of the reason for the rank. There's also an element of future faking here. Just keep what your doing and it'll all come to you in heaven. Did Saint Vic wait for his rewards in heaven? Did Craig? So two ministry leaders didn't wait, why should I even believe it's the truth. When you think about it, it's the perfect con. Nobody's going to come back from the dead to tell you it was all a scam.
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Yes I did. It's 1 Corinthians 6:9.
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First Corinthians 6:9 also talks about how no adulterer will get into heaven. Paging Saint Vic! And there's the flaw in your reward excuse. We'll have the loss of the reward, but will we know or understand why? So if your claim of future rewards is true, then Saint Vic's Christians Should Be Prosperous is a lie, right? As is Saint Vic's interpretation of John 10:10?
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And I responded by telling you God says He's a just God. A just God would NOT use an evil person to give, as you claim, the most important revelation since the bible. If so, show me one other instance in the bible where God did so. Oh, most of your examples repented before they found favor with God. Saint Vic, himself, said in PLAF, God said David was the apple of His eye. He didn't say that when David was running around with Bathsheba. David had to right himself first.
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John the Baptist a weirdo. An odd thing to say about someone who Jesus Christ said was greater then him. To paraphrase Saint Vic, if I were going to call John the Baptist a weirdo, I wouldn't do it unless I could show him how line by line and word by word.
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Your premise is faulty. As did Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, and the Catholic church. Did God give Billy Graham a "big job" (Other than Word over the World? Did he get special revelation as to the nature of the bible a la PLAF?)? Oral Roberts? The Catholic church? I'm looking at the context and all I see is someone trying to rationalize why a just God would do an unjust thing. (Was it just for God to allow all those women to be abused? Was it just for all those people to cash there own check because Saint Vic convinced them they were born of the wrong seed?) Great blessings from PLAF? You mean like being able to say John the Baptist was a weirdo?
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It's backwards logic. Most of us start with premises which lead to a conclusion: a + b = c. However, with backward logic, you start with the conclusion, then go searching for the premises to support it.
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Once again, your communication is your responsibility. It's not my job to guess what you're saying. If I'm getting it wrong, maybe you should change the way your message is being transmitted. Yah, sure, we see that every day in the ministry, don't we? Actually, there is encouragement in your words. You gave Saint Vic a pass, you claim God gave Saint Vic pass, therefore, as God is no respecter of persons, why shouldn't we all get a pass? As I said, Saint Vic didn't worry about his rewards. As God, according to you, put him in a position to be my example, why should I be worried about my rewards. Wrong! God says He's a just God, therefore His decisions would be based on justice. So if God's sensibilities of justice differs from ours, why should we trust Him to be just?
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First off, I don't appreciate being patronized. Second, you apparently don't get what Mike is saying. Basically, what Mike is saying is anyone who commits the worst of sins against God's family should get a pass based on the claim they were doing God's "big job."
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Very poor reasoning. Among Saint Vic's responsibilities was to set an example. He obviously wasn't motivated by the promise of spiritual Scooby snacks and why should I be? Did his decision to disobey God every opportunity he got hurt him any? Again, according to you, of all the great examples God could have chosen for this, so called, important revelation, he chose a man who epitomized sin. So why should I ignore PLAF and the bible and follow Saint Vic's example and do as I damn please? According to you, these are the type of people God chooses to do His "big jobs." Therefore, there's a chance that He'll choose me to do a "big job."
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So you're telling me Saint Vic didn't love God, right? Yet, according to Mike, God entrusted him with the most important revelation since the bible itself.
