So_crates

JWs believe the soul is in the blood. So, by transfusing the blood, you're als transfusing the soul.

A woman in her 40s just came to my door and started to pitch knowledge in the bible. "Ma'am, I'm going to save you a lot of time," I told her. "I'm not interested in joining church." "This isn't for a church," she said, "we're just sharing what we know from the bible." She started back into her pitch pointing to the tract she had. "Ma'am, I was with The Way International for the better part of my life." At that point she said "Okay", terminated the conversation and went on her way to the next house. Could she have been with The Way? It's the abrupt termination that makes me wonder.

And this is one of the reasons why I think the whole thing is a scam. As long as they can blame you for failure, they're covered. Let me ask you, when you go skydiving, how long does it take gravity to respond? Or do you just dangle in midair like Wile E. Coyote? Why is believing different than any other universal law?

A more pertinent question would be: do I believe people in the Way manifest God's power? The answer is no. I think most of the upper structure knew the whole thing was a con, they just went along with it for whatever they could gain out of it, al la Rummy Michens in Major Barbara .

And your point is...? This is like Saint Vic preaching about unicorns and me saying we never were meant to have unicorns, so you respond: Since you left the ministry have you gotten any unicorns?

I think many of us here have done a brilliant job of moving on with our lives. We've succeed not because of, but in spite of the Way. We've moved on, we're in it won't happen again mode. Methinks thou protests too much. What haven't you forgiven and is stopping you from moving on with your life?

We were told we would manifest the power of God. How many do you know really did? How many healing and miricles are you aware that news of such didn't come from a friend of a friend (a ministry urban legend) ? You see, the truth of the matter is that we were never meant to manifest the power of God, to become successful. Because if we ever did manifest that power we would become to Independent and, in Saint Vic's mind, might no longer need him. So it was to his benefit to keep us in a cycle of failure which would keep us dependent on the ministry. You would think God would want you to succeed and be a shining example of his love. Yet, the ministry was based on you failing.

Why would someone come onto a place where Way victims congregate and start talking about forgiving? Do you think we haven't forgiven all the evil The Way brought? There's forgiving, then there's warning others. If someone mugged me in certain place I could forgive the mugger. However, I would also warn other to stay away from the place were the mugging occurred.

Yah, forgiveness. Everytime my mother would betray me, she would want to be forgiven. "We've got to start over from scratch," she would say. So I would forgive and forget and all she was really doing was setting me up for her to do the same thing all over again. It sound to me like you want us to forgive and forget. God require us to forgive, he says nothing about us having to forget. God says we are to be as wise a serpents, which includes not falling into the same trap again. The ministry sending out time to come home cards feels like deja vu all over again. The type of forgiveness you want us to have requires trust and trust is earned.

Did Saint Vic know that he knew that he knew? Depends on what you think he knew. I, personally, think he knew he was running a con. Proof of this is in the POP paper. Saint Vic went to G33r whining that Martindale was "ruining the whole thing.* Just what was the "whole thing?" Upon leaving that meeting, Saint Vic said, "Well bring it back." Notice, in both instances, there was no ta!k of for the glory of God, or the people needing the Word. Just ruining the 'whole thing" and "bringing it back.' Saint Vic was talking about ruining the con and that he wanted to bring it back.

I couldn't say it better than this

Kinda like "Corps Nazis" and "Snappers," right?

Sure, why not? If I narrow my thinking to only what I see I'd come to the conclusion that the earth is flat. We know better, don't we?

Then there's the questions salvation brings: Does God "budget" who gets saved when? Does the individual seeking salvation have to wait for "doors" to open?

So what happened to Saint Vic's promise that we'll manifest the power of God if we believe? Suddenly there are so many caveats on manifesting that the odds are slim that you'll manage to jump through all the hoops. You have to know what's available. You have to know how to receive it. You have to know what to do with it when you got it. You have to have needs and wants balanced. You have to believe. You have to know a corresponding bible verse. It has to be God's will. Doors have to be open It has to fit God's budget. Sounds to me like Saint Vic claimed we have a billion dollars in the bank. Then he put so many conditions on withdrawing the money, he knew we'd never get it out of the bank.

Yes you are. Those are the logical conclusions of your claims. So you're saying any explanation will do, no matter how irrational? More like reading what you wrote. For example, you claim there's more evil. In the world, yet your theory states there should be an equal amount of good. You try to explain this away as God is limited by us. Yet you ignore all the prayers God received at any given time. Maybe you need to go back and rethink the theory you parroted from Saint Vic. Maybe you need to go back and realize he was desperately looking for a reason to explain his own impotence to some honked off followers. No, it's not logical, because you're sacrificing the logic of what I'm pointing out in favor of one of Saint Vic's excuses and your pet theories. Logic is people pray to God and believe. You claim there's a door of some sort that opens allowing God to act and at the same time Satan acts. You also claim there's a rise in evil in the world. Well, logic would dictate a rise in evil a rise in good, as people are praying. Logic would also dictate that if God is limited by our belief then Satan is limited by our fear. Logical, eh?

Limited by human intervention, huh? You mean to tell me of all the people praying at any given time God can't find any good to do? Also, then the devil is limited by our fears, right? Fears being negative believing. As the universe leans in the direction of balance, I would think for every evil thing done, God could easily answer a prayer and do some good. Yet you claim there's more evil than good in the world.

In a prior post in this thread you asked haven't we noticed more evil in the world? I responded, If there is more evil in the world, and your claim is true (as stated in the quote above) then shouldn't there also be an equal amount of good in the world?

What you need is a better excuse for not owning up to the facts.

Yah, the guy who couldn't master keeping his pants zipped is telling us what we need to master. Saint Vic wasn't master of his domain. Yah, come back to PLAF so we could lead you further into the kingdom of the blind. And what's it done for you? Given you hubris so you can feel you're better than everyone else? Paging Helen Keller! As I can see by your inability to be humble and meek and apply the law of believing. Like I said, I can see that in your inability to make the law of believing your own. What's to clarify? See Waysider's previous post. Saint Vic said it period, full stop. Now you said Saint Vic used the same teachings as Jesus et Al as far as devil spirits. Did Jesus teach cancer was a devil spirit. Read Waysider's previous post. You mean like you supplied the supporting sentances for the word of God is the will of God? Or how about the supporting sentences for your claim God can lie evidence that Saint Vic was a MOG and spoke for God. How about the supporting sentences for your claim God gave Saint Vic permission to steal others work. Yah, those eight people that stayed it, all guesswork. \s Waysider presented you the text straight out of the AC collateral. Not guesswork, fact? Why bother? If you get an answer contrary to your narrative you'll twist it to something that fits your narrative. Remember what I said about length of post and effort to con. Mike, in the land of the blind, a one eyed man is king.

I'm surprised you haven't. Below are post by people that have. This is from the first 20 of 86 pages in search. Many of the post had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Now. Mike, how did you manage to stay out of the loop?

Mike: I heard that sentence "cancer is a devil spirit" in the early 70s, and asked it that was taught in the AC. The answer to me was "yes" however it was followed by much more detail that I did not yet understand. Me: If you didn't understand the detail how can you be sure Saint Vic didn't teach it? Just because you didn't hear Saint Vic teach cancer is a devil spirit doesn't mean he didn't. Didn't you claim a few threads ago that Saint Vic didn't claim that the class taught prosperity? Mike: No one here ever reported any detail on this, besides the oversimplified sentence above. Me: Contradict yourself much? First your saying there were details you didn't understand and now your saying the sentence was oversimplified. And, naturally, those three classes were every Advanced Class there was. What if the statement was made in one of the classes you don't have?

And this addresses Saint Vic's claim that cancer is a devil spirit how? You recall what I said about the longer the post the greater the con? Congratulations, you just proved it.

Right, Waysider remembered it wrong. Just like he remembered the red water clear water demonstration wrong./s I have way more faith in Waysider's memory then I have in your word. @waysider