JeffSjo
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Everything posted by JeffSjo
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Dear Excathedra, Your sharing both humbles me and fires me up. I am so thankfull that you can share it with us and I sincerely hope you continue to do so. I hope the doubtlessly MANY other women who suffered this vile treatment can take to themselves a little more courage for you having shared. P.S. YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE SECRET AGENDA SOCIETY, YOU ARE A VICTIM OF THOSE HEARTLESS CREAPS. Please, please don't ever doubt it.
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Thanks for that Rottie grrrl, I laughed out loud, oops, it's a library too!
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For me, one of the first thing that I spot when looking at a teacher is whether they are as meek as they can be bold. Moses was written of as the meekest man on earth. But having said that I've found that I'm as fallible as anyone to the prospect of "Being wise in my own conceits." I think that the very prospect of thinking that we are tied into God with our words and intentions most often brings out the worst in us in terms of pride and/or arrogance. For me, I look to the same thing as Brideofjc said to look to, the spirit of God. But I'm pretty sure that many people who CLAIM that source for their wisdom at best are engaging in wishfull thinking. Still, for me, it's the understanding that I desire the most. I find it most comforting when I'm lovingly taught and/or reproved and I can percieve the growth in myself and also can give God the credit. P.S. I really like this thread Rascal. (edited for grammar and spelling)
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Actually as to the picture in question, projection bias was a bigger factor in the picture for me. Transferance has to do with the topic at hand though. It's a lot bigger than needing a backscratching. LOL
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Love it Bowtwi, Gotta love it when kids call em like they see em.
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2,429 RUMBLERS could make a lot of noise.
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Hi Rascal, Good posts, necessary IMO, but not easy things to look at. In my case I feel that when I ran into a minister who refused to change a darn thing he did no matter what the scriptures say, neither of us changed our mind. I felt and still feel that it was my duty to God to hang in their and fight for the truth no matter how screwed up the minister was clearly becoming in my view. One of the key points for me in terms of how I think is let my best understanding of scripture be my guide, but keep listening and thinking. Try not to set myself up in standing on lies. Often the best things that I hear come from folks who make no reference to scripture whatsoever because that's not who they are, but when I think about what they said the scriptures become more clear to me. I think that this is how wisdom works. I have failed at times by not recognizing the truth because of an arrogant notion that nobody can speak the truth unless they care about the Bible like I do. On the flip side of this the most pernicious lies come from sources that we estimate as the most reliable. In general I think the hardest truths to hear come from sources that we look down on and the hardest lies to catch come from people that we rely on. For years I thought that if someone would have stood up for the truth in Dr.'s face then maybe things would have been different, but now that I'm listening to you'all here I'm certain that many tried but were foiled by deliberate wickedness, as I have faced in my life. It's looking to me that many toes will need to be stepped on very hard to help folks heal. Let the healing continue. (Edited to add a little bit)
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
Thanks again Brideofjc, The bully was probably revealing his own desires via projection bias. BUT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD FITS TRANSFERANCE PEFECTLY IMO. -
Breaking a VOW - the laws of the OT
JeffSjo replied to Dot Matrix's topic in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Dear Dot, My recent experiences are like fuel to me on this topic too. In my situation I was painted as the bad guy even though that with the problems I had in my younger years my wife admitted often that I was improving constantly in the areas of my life that were scarred in my youth. I was never, ever violent but there is plenty of things that I failed in still. For my wife's part she never came to terms with the state of her life when we met either and forgot the good things of our earlier years together. Now we get to the place where in our small splinter group the considered me disorderly, I consider them to be virtually unfixable in biblical terms. My wife took to the minister as her man. Not in a sexual way, but in terms of owner and father. For years I stayed in this situation for the churche's and my marriage's sake. Often we lived with other people and things were smooth in the living situation, we worked it out. If I was such a throw away scum bag as they would have everyone believe then why wasn't there ever a problem with any of the many couples we lived with? The answer is simple, I am not the bad guy, but the "apostle" so to speak had still made me a marked man. I believe that it was all too easy to get my wife to believe their twisted position on many things, and they certainly didn't help me try to make my marriage better, they even told her she didn't have to discuss our past together with me. My wife left and the church kicked me out. If anything I'm going to be careful to prove any notions of a "bad vow" because by that same opinion my life was wrecked deliberately. I think that even if someone holds to the scripture on these things that a marriage is worth having good councel, a lot of fighting for, and someone who is capable of helping them with a lot of sweat and tears before giving up. If the situation is like the one that Jeast is talking about it's another matter altogether. But I'm not going to judge anyone without being close to the situation and fully informed. There are lives at stake. (added in editing) PLEASE TAKE CARE DOT -
Thanks anyway Rottiegrrrl, I'm going to choose to pass on the link. What I just imagined is bad enough. I'm really going to have to get my head into something else now. LOL
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Dear Copenhagen, I've gotta respect that you are in TWI, it's your walk after all. I also like how you do not seem to have your blinders on as far as the abuse goes. I wish you all the best and God Bless.
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
TRANSFERANCE, THANK YOU, THANK YOU BRIDEOFJC!!!!!! Transferance, when a woman takes feelings that God intended for her to have for her husband or even Jesus Christ himself and is encouraged to feel these for a fallible human minister. No wonder things got so screwed up at TWI as cocerning Dr. Wierwille and the rest of top leadership. Transeferance, it tricks some ministers into thinking that all the women belong to him. If I was a betting man I would be certain that this screwed over many TWI people. It sure worked that way in my little splinter group. I was at loggerheads with leadership over many things and my wife held feelings for the leader as an owner( I'm not exagerating people, it's really happening today), and father. For one woman called a prophetess she felt for as a mother. No wonder I felt outgunned. All of my little group were systematically directed into transfering all these emotions to the leader or his cronies. But the leader was sure to keep the cronies under his thumb most of all. This whole thread is about TRANSFERANCE. I'm not suree HOW it got started in TWI but in my little splinter group it's been deliberately planned and tought by every means possible. Tranferance can be a powerfull tool in the arsenal of any sick b--tard that wants to Lord it over the Lord's inheritance. For the Biblical minded I say, JESUS CHRIST IS JESUS CHRIST, HE'S NOT THE DUMB--- GUY WHO MINISTERS TO YOU THAT WANTS YOUR WORSHIP. (ADDED IN EDITING) If any of you bible maniacs out there would like to discuss this in doctrinal, all that I have to say is that when Paul used terms like fathered or mothered he was talking about what he did, not what he wanted from the believers in terms of tranferance. I'm certain because of how he was thankfull that he didn't baptise many of the Corinthians and didn't want them to think too highly of any minister, himself include that this TWI style TRANSFERANCE would have horrified him. I'm eager to take this point to doctrinal if anyone would like to look at what all the scriptures say, not just a few that have been twisted into meaning that the lead minister gets it all. No minister who has any sanity on the subject would allow himself to be in a position of being at odds doctrinally with the concept of "I'm not the woman's husband or Lord." -
Breaking a VOW - the laws of the OT
JeffSjo replied to Dot Matrix's topic in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Hi again Dot and God Bless you, I've been thinking about my last posting and it seems to me that it's a lot like my first answer to you in your lawn care thread. I said that I needed more info to give you good advise then too. This time it's not just a lawn care question and what I see in the situation is that it's not just you in the situation this time, but your friend and her (if I understand you right anyway) and her husband too. I don't know them at all either. And I don't want to give you any well intended but bad advise, the stakes are too high. I just hope that your own recent experiences don't color your advice to her in any way. Marriages are suppose to stay together and I generally look for how to make that happen, but if it's dangerous for her I'd want her out of there until the whole situation can be dealt with properly. It seems to me that there are a lot of potential pitfalls for you in this situation. PLEASE TAKE CARE DOT. -
I CAN'T DO THAT IN THE LIBRARY
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Thank you Joe. I've enjoyed your posts.
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
Thanks Brideofjc, I looked at transferance on wikipedia. I think that it's commonplace for folks who've had nonsensical standards shoved down their throats, especially by bad preachers, transfer their squashed and approppriate fellings in a totally nonsensical direction. Your post just helped me make a little sense out of some nonsense. PEACE to you brideofjc (added in editing) IMO when someone uses transferance as a weapon to bludgeon someone into submission they are a bully. -
Breaking a VOW - the laws of the OT
JeffSjo replied to Dot Matrix's topic in Doctrinal: Exploring the Bible
Hi Dot, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, and I'm sorry to hear of your friend. I don't know any specifics of your friends distress but it doesn't sound like a good situation. I'd like to hear what you think after reading what Paul's councel concerning marriage in 1st Corinthians is. Here he handles these things at times saying what the commandments of the Lord are, and at times simply giving advice that's good advice but he's sensitive to the fact that these things at times will be hard to bear. I've gone to this along with desiring to believe the things in the gospels are the best things I can aspire to in marriage. I hope this helps, but not knowing your friends distress and the big picture of her marriage like a friend would makes it hard for me to say more. (added in editing) This may not need to be a concern for you but I just have to say it just in case Dot. I hope that your friends situation doesn't get to be too much for you to handle as far as ministering to her goes. If you think that you might be getting in over your head do you have good friends to reach out to yourself Dot? -
I am also grieved by TWI when i realize that this culture of "NO VICTIM MENTALITY" actually was used to isolate victims of abuse of every kind. With that "culture" in place the actual victims of the abuse were automatically left without sympathy or friends. I say one more time YOU BASTARDS.
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For me Ham, It looks like what ended up happening in TWI was far from the "ideal" that was taught in PFAL of a church where with love and integrity the whole body of believers contributes to making things better. Right in PFAL Dr. Wierwille invites us to prove the doctrine. But what ended up happening was nasty and ugly in terms that I can not even look at without wincing. In my heart I hold on to the idea of "The Way" as it should have or could have been. It is a sad thing to hold on to. But in spite of how ugly things were for people in their own experiences with TWI I can understand why folks who learned how to understand the Bible in TWI as I did remember good and honest people like the recent sharing by Ralph D. proves that their was in TWI leadership. In spite of how you make a good point about the wicked hypocrisy I just don't have it in me to speak about it like you do here.
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
Thank you Jen-o, I just did the same thing. (added in editing)(grammar too) Not long after I got here I was mocked by another poster who told me to, 'be quiet and go play with my girlfriends' or something very near to that anyway. I'm sharing this because my impression of that poster is that he would be willing to stand up for men who practiced this distorted doctrine brought up in this thread but was willing to mock me for my friendly intentions. There is not often such a clear and obviously hypocritical point that I can bring up as this one. How come the hypocrits are the ones who excel at playing the "shame card." -
For Sadra Ann Sullivan's memory I will be happy to discuss the kind of man that hurt her. Nobodie's tows will be spared either. Sociopaths are a very hard thing to look at without being left feeling dissolussioned and down on people in general. But if someone has been scarred by such a souless bastard then I can see it helping them to come to terms with this type of personallity. Let everyone consider these things as they see fit I say!!!!!
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Hi Shiftthis, I know what you mean when you talk about how nasty things can be in the real world. (so to speak) I think you may end up agreeing with me that a mean scumbag is one thing to deal with. But a mean scumbag who hides behind a multitude of bible verses, crowd control techniques, and hypocritical lying is an altogether WORSE kind of person to deal with. As far as computers go, I'm looking forward to learning more, but at present I think it's fair to say that I'm at about a kindergarten od first grade level. I hope that your posting hear on the Greasespot ends up being a good thing for you Shiftthis.
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
Dear Twinky, (concerning your post, #115) It looks to me that the writers of the Talmud were trying to do the same thing for David that some are attempting to do for the top TWI leadership today. I wish that they'd all stop trying to hide and/or justify mens' sins and realize that scripture takes a much more honest look at even the best mens' faults than they can stomach to do themselves. As for me, when I see them try to cover these things up by their various deceitful methods my patience runs out fast. When I see these same people continue to oppress the victims of this abuse I get angry. ( I think that the internet softens my apparent emotions somewhat.) Well, in general I'll take up these things in person if that door ever opens up. As far as the victims go, IT IS NOT A SIN TO BE A VICTIM.. It is sin to abuse authority to satisfy one's own lust. IF ANYONE WANTS TO DISCUSS THAT POINT IN DOCTRINAL, IT WON'T EVEN BE A CLOSE CONTEST. IMO a total no-brainer except for the brainless perhaps. Dear Rascal and Jen-o, I'm on your side on this issue, but I'm still thankful for the things I learned in PFAL, but I understand totally why you feel the way you do. I believe that it's totally possible for a man with the Spirit of God and a genuine ministry to become totally corrupt. I take these events as warnings to not do the same thing, because whether or not anyone is REALLY born again when they sin like this I think we can agree that ultimately the Lord Himself will judge all these things once-and-for-all in due time. Peace, and hopefully friendship, JEFF -
I remember when it was said of Ralph, "He has more love for the Word of God in his little pinky than most of you have in your whole bodies," to the best of my recolection. I have been profoundly moved by this sharing. The biggest thing that I seem to lack right now is the time to listen to it all again.
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All the Women in the Kingdom Belong to the King
JeffSjo replied to Nottawayfer's topic in About The Way
Well said Thomas. Personally I completly understand why abusing the Bible to have sexual relations with young woman might raise your dander a bit. My time is up, the library is closing. Take care all.