JeffSjo

Dear Catcup, HOORAY for you. JEFF

Ever since I considered starting this particular thread I've been wondering if I should just say,"Sit on this and then spin." But seriously, I bet many of you are tired of the spin. I think that many of you have seen much more of it than me too. Oldies, The reason I'm not naming names is because I don't want to engage in a dispute, I want discussion. DUH!

How sad Oakspear. For me, the best of PFAL doctrine was about proving doctrines and rejecting ANYTHING that was not supported by the scripture. I can relate to being expelled, but my conscience is clear, especially in terms of handling God's Word. That's how it ended up for me in my little splinter group. This statement may be too bold, and I'm willing to be corrected, but it seems to me that LCM had the same problem as the minister that Dr. taught about in PFAL who thought Paul's thorn in the flesh was that he was a sexual pervert. The only thing that he revealed in his handling of the scripture was his own problem.

YAWN No really Oldies, what do you think of spin?

It would be simpler Oldies if you could just explain the remarks to me as I know that you could. I'm betting that you wouldn't get me to change my mind, but I'm willing to listen to you. Let's keep the conversation out here in the light where everyone could see it though. Dear Rascal, Thanks A person has to be called to do that kind of thing, and even then there is no guarantee for success.

Dear What the Hey, That's right, go ahead and put people down. I like that you post put downs on a thread like this. It makes it clear to me what you are. I'd like to hear you be sorry about Sandra Ann Sullivan like most decent folks seem to be able to do. Why not you?

Recently a long time poster here stated that his/her purpose on this site was to provide a pro TWI spin on things. I've been considering the matter ever since and I have some thoughts on the matter. I'm not putting this in the doctrinal section because this poster was talking about TWI. I will bring up some scriptural points because I believe that they are relavent. I hope everyone feels free to participate with whatever they have to contribute though. I do not believe that a statement has to be scripturally based to be true, I just listen and consider their words. When I consider this matter of "spin" and the scriptures, I tend to think of them as different, not the same. When God has judged his own people he never needed spin nor are these things ever written of with any spin on the matter.King David, Moses, Judas, and even the apostle Peter has had their mistakes spoken of very honestly just to name a few. Why would anyone who wants to speak for God, as this poster seems to want to, admit to spin? I don't get it! SPIN as it's used today's modern culture generally is an instituion's attempt to limit the damage that THE TRUTH has on their particular cause. It is common in politics, business, et. Historically there is many examples of spin. One historian has noted that the victors write the history books. IMO SPIN HAS NO PLACE HERE IN DISCUSSING THE TRUTH OF WHAT WENT ON IN TWI. Any feedback anyone? (edited for grammar)

Hi humblepie, It's nice to have you on board!

Dear Wordwolf, Thanks for verifying the doctrine was taught for me. I have no need to look it up on the other threads though. Besides, I think it's a search that might overtake my ability to keep from retching. I agree with you that it's best to hold of seting any of the considerations as official church doctrine until the matter can be seen as internally consistent within the scriptures. It now seems to me as extreemly ironic that the story I heard of LCM's first way fellowship had Donny Fuegot(sp?) saying emphatically to Craig in regards to Peter's vision on the roof top that if "the bible doesn't say, you just don't know." When he shared this story about Donny he shared it like it was an entirely new way for him to think about the Bible. I GUESS HE TOTALLY FORGOT WHAT DONNY TAUGHT HIM BY THE TIME HE WAS BIG-MAN ON CAMPUSS. How sad.

Only one man always had 100% The rest of us just need to do the best that we can and keep learning.

Another poster on another thread said that Rosalie tried to keep this poster from leaving TWI by pointing out that 80% of what they did was accurate. With such a boneheaded doctrine as the one that this thread is about being there I'm certain now that 80% has to be a lie. IMO having 50% correct doctrine would only happen in that athmosphere by shear accident. (edited for spelling)

Are you guys serious about this homosexuality/original sin thing? It'd be more inmpressive in terms of what TWI has learned if they thought it was adultery IMO. It'd be just as stupid as saying it was homosexuality, but at least then they would be admitting that adultery was wrong.

Thank you very much TheHighWay, I've got to go now, but it's allways nice to know exactly what people are talking about. JEFF P.S. IMO there are some long-term trolls around here too. But then they would quickly retort that my feelings have no basis in truth and that I'm the real troll. SIGH

As I was watching this I realised that I have a 8 or so year old boy right next to me at this library. I think I'll have to pass for now BOWTWI.

Thomas, Would you be willing to explain the "lurkers and trolls" thing? I'm just not computer literate enough to know what you're talking about.

Personally, Yanagisawa, I am not happy now. You've been honest with us about what your doing and that is much, much better than some people can do here in terms of honesty and decency. This thread is not about making some little irksome test on the other posters only to have you flatter the one who points out the mistake. This thread is about the memory of one girl who was manipulated by someone in authority over her and then commited suicide even though those same bastards who abused her were warned of her troubled mind and chose to do nothing. We've got other threads where your little tests would be more seemly.

I was pleased to see that my recent post in "Soap Opera" seems to fit here on your thread Groucho. In answer to your question, these things are some of my thoughts. I like the thread. I just learned how to use a new toy too, the quote feature. (edited for spelling)

That's funny bride. Just yesterday I shared with my mom that one of my favorite movie lines is "Stupid is as stupid does." I hope that when I'm on "stupid" that I have the kind of friends and family that can help me get off it.

Dear Looseygoosey, I hope that this aggresive exchange hasn't put you off. Some people here can't even seem to let you introduce yourself or your story without raising all kinds of issues that don't seem to have anything to do with you. I'm sure that most of us Greasespotters will be happy to simply hear you out and be supportive of you whatever it is that you've gone through. Peace, JEFF

Dear Ham, I think the application of "the cross" when mixed with the appropriate humility and awe will quickly remove the blood suckers. SOMETIMES THE OLD CURES ARE STILL THE BEST IMO. (edited for grammar)

I'm sorry Dot if what I shared with you seems to come up short of hitting the mark in any way. I'm not assuming that you cannot keep your situation out of your friend's life in terms of being clear. But as I don't know you very well, all I can say is that I recognize that my own heartbreaking situation has a big pull on my own advice and I want you to not fall into the same trap that this topic makes a real concern for me. I'm certain that in any case where a spouse is in danger that no one needs to feel bad about HAVING to leave a marriage. I'm certain that a believer does not have to feel bad if the other spouse abandons their wedding vows and/or promises. Dear Dot, Having said these things to each other, I'm more comfortable saying "It depends." PEACE P.S. I'm real sorry if my concerns seem to unduly put you down, that is not my intent. (edited for grammar)

Dear Dot, I'm not sure that we do not understand each other already, but I'd like to be clear in anycase for everybodie's good. I'm not willing to state that "it depends" is my stand, but maybe you and I don't think the same about "depends on what." I think that it's clear scripturally that God intended marriage to be a lifelong bond. But in 1st Corinthians even though Paul makes it clear that the Lord's commandment is for the wife to not leave the husband he gives guidance for how she should live if she does leave her husband. So in my little pea-brain it would be follie for anyone to decide wrongly that a particular marriage vow was ungodly unless they had such a rock-solid case that it would be easy to be understood. But even though the commandmant is clear, there is advice given on how to conduct ourselves if for whatever reason we should NEED to fall short of the commandment. I see grace and mercy, not heavy handed legalism. My experiences were not in TWI, but in a small splinter group with which I've been fellowshipping with until my expulsion since 1989 or so. When I read about how TWI ruined so many marriages here on this site I'm certain that my little group's high handed and twisted approach to my marriage at the very least was "birthed" in TWI leadership meetings as they were either fooled into or deliberately wicked in determining which spouse was to end up being thrown out like so much garbage. I believe if your friend is seeking the will of God for her life that it's a much bigger task than you alone might be able to help her with, especially because of your recent divorce experiences. I just don't want any "snap judgements" made by you that may be unduly influenced by your recent experiences Dot! At the very least I hope that your friend would find a Godly, and experienced marriage counceller of some kind that is capable of helping your friend and her husband for real. I'm not saying you can't help your friend either Dot, I'm just concerned that you don't councel anything to her that you'll regret later.

Thanks Brideofjc for spelling it out so clearly in scriptural terms. I know that it's wrong for me to look forward to these verses that I mentioned concerning God's garbage fire with glee as concerning any man because you, me, or anyone else is subject to the same judgement. But as I pointed out in the post, I think it's plain to see that what the Lord has in store will not be pleasent for these bastards. Who knows, maybe God would still give some of them a change of heart.