JeffSjo

I sure do like your posts Bumpy, because they help me deal with real issues so much. Is "Life of Brian" the movie about the loser, wannabe? I trust that things will become only clearer here. As far as your advice to seek proffesional help I can only say that this kind of advice in this forum is absolutely unnecessary. It's all too easily taken as a backhanded cheap shot masquerading as kindness. This is one of the nasty and mean tactics that TWI leadership learned in their obnoxious WAY CORPS training. I've seen folks with sociopathic characteristics use it to subtly put people in their place when they believe they should be top dog. This is the effect on people of this kind of advice from you Bumpy, and I recommend that you stop it. But for today I am content if everyone reads and makes up their own mind if you have bad intentions or not. I'm not going to do it, but I'm certain that a review of your past posts will reveal the certainty of whether or not you mean well. Personally, I don't think so. As for greater meaning, lets get back on topic. ___________________________________________________________________ Seeing as top TWI learned these control techniques that I'm speaking of I'm even more certain than ever that many, many TWI splinter groups don't deserve your money or support. You see folks, much of their training in the ministry was just learning how to push people around and be the top dog, so to speak. IT IS WRITTEN, "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory." But what TWI leadership ended up learning was a style of leadership that epitomized strife and vainglory. They became puffed up little turds who were VERY good at putting you down to further their abuse of the body of Christ, oops, big mistake. But in the mean time many people have had to suffer through the effects of their brutality. Many do and did need proffesional help. I just hope that they get whatever help they need, knowing that I'm no better than any of them. I've stated what I think the Lord would have wanted, and what I believe he will do. I am ready to dance in the mean time. cha cha cha. (edited for spelling) P.S. Dear Excathedra and Jen-o, Thank you for sharing. :)

Hi Bumpy, It's been a while, I have over 300 posts now and I haven't had the pleasure of reading much from you in quite a while it seems. You are correct about me not sending any money to TWI anymore, but it's been a long time since I have. I've been involved with a small splinter group since 1989 or so and many, many things that people share about TWI seem very clear to me now that I never could have considered before unless these things hadn't become clear to me in life-shattering detail, real up close and personal like. I like the greasespot in many respects because some things are different here then real life, so to speak. Here, there is some distance between us and the folks we're talking too. I think for TWI victims this gives them a great chance to step back and review and rethink the conversation that "real life" does not allow. In real life, the life-sucking ghoul that controls people's lives was real in my face, and I supported his ministry with not just my finances, but my life's direction as well. So dealing with whether or not TWI deserves financial support in this forum is quite a breather for me in comparison. But after hearing folks share about broken lives here at the greasespot I'm real sure that my splinter group leader learned how to break people, control them, and use them from the very worst of TWI practices, and all the while train people to keep up a very convincing false front to the casual observer, heck, for years he's been TRAINING his disciples to help him convince ex-wayfers that he is for real. I shudder to think of what will happen to people who get sucked in because what he's capable of is stealing everything a man or woman has and then discarding them like a piece of trash when he's done. If you want Bumpy, just take a good look at my life and then you'll know that for me this isn't fake, it is my life. So I feel certain in my opinion that there are good people out there, and that people who learned their tricks from TWI (like Chr!s G$$r and his fellow former top TWI leadership thugs IMO) not only don't deserve our money, but that what they deserve will only happen to them by the will of GOD in HIS own time. Looking at these things is part of what you refer to as "my own" Bumpy, not by my choice, but because it is my life, still mostly broken..... (edited for grammar)

Thanks for that Walk This Way. I don't have the computer skills to search like you did, let alone put together an animation like that. WHEW! That Alan Becker's got talent.

Dear Lofty, I'm so very glad to hear that you can gain some ground with your family again.

Thanks DMiller, Your sharing reminds me of the awesome simplicity of giving to friends and strangers who need help. Not for reward or praise of men, but because a heart is simply moved out of love and compassion. Dear Socks, Pointed sarcasm, and a good point. Gotta love it. always. ______________________________________________________ When I think of the things in the epistles I see people loving each other through the hardest of times, and consequently helping. Paul certainly lived through the hardest of times but even told the Corintians that he didn't ask them for help. AWESOME, HEROIC, SELFLESS, IMO a near perfect example. When I think of what TWI became I think of heartless, legalistic, overbearing, corrupt, and greedy leadership who ended up desiring to fill their own bellies worst of all. BLECH! At times they were willing to end up enduring all the suffering that their victims; er, twigs I mean; could bear just to look good to top leadership who filled their twisted bellies on this sacrifice of requirement; er, love I mean: o.k. they didn't require love just to fill their bellies, just send in the dough or there will be some major league reproof; er, I mean bullying. IT SEEMS VERY CLEAR THAT WITHOUT SOME MAJOR LEAGUE HUMILITY BEFORE GOD AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT IT BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SEND ANY OF THESE TOP LEADERSHIP ONE SINGLE PENNY. Especially you Chr!s G$$r. But for those of you whose fellowship is blessed with real love and good will, give and recieve to your hearts content. At that point it wouldn't really matter what anybody thinks anyway, because God's keeping score. (added in editing) Now that I think about it, with all the stories I've read about the WAYGB (until recently I thought that was Great Britain) I'm certain that anyone who controls a group of nasty,backstabbing skunks like these appears to be deserving not only to not have you send them your money, but these nasty, backstabbing skunks DESERVE to have all ministry property confiscated. SIGH Lord, how long. IN THE MEAN TIME, JUST DON'T SEND THEM ANY MONEY. p.s. If you think someones head is spinning, you gotta pick the nasty, backstabbing skunks IMO.

Hi Cake, I think we're all glad that you're ready to share now. Just feel free to serve it up, yum. Hey guys, now we can have our cake and eat it too.

I think for me one of the biggest things that I have to contend with (Just like everybody else for their own reasons) is what have I learned lately. Here at GSC I've learned that young women were abused and thrown away by the very people that I used to be sure were "good people." I used to believe that Dr. Wierwille learned everything from studying the bible after he threw away all his other books as he said, only to find that he copied from many other men but made sure to keep all the credit to himself, and then allowed people to magnify him to be the MOGFDAT. Even though I've seen and heard hints of these problems over the years, I never believed these problems were true until recently. There are plenty of other problems too, just read some more GSC. To make things worse, IMO CHR!S G$$R, LCM, AND OTHER TOP TWI LEADERSHIP HAVE HID THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS FOR YEARS, IMO seeking to slow down and even stop the reporting of the corruption that existed in TWI. I know that Chr!ss G$$r is teaching a class somewhat based on PFAL. Chr!s G$$r and his class can kiss my you know what. People who are taking that class should know that that bastard G$$r has been covering up this TWI abuse for years. IT SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO EVERYONE, THAT BASTARD G$$R DOESN'T DESERVE YOUR MONEY. I don't know a lot of TWI splinter groups or their leaders. But I don't see how they can have a clear conscience if they've heard what I've heard lately. My own little splinter group leader was a heartless ghoul that seems to only desire to control people lock, stock, and barrell. That splinter doctrine has cost me much. But not near as much as TWI abuse has cost some of my new friends. FOLKS, PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INFORMATION BEFORE GIVING YOUR MONEY TO ANYBODY WHO CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH OF THESE THINGS. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY. I BELIEVE THEY ARE IN BIG TROUBLE WITH THE LORD.

Thanks Oklahoma City Wow 78, Very funny and the man was so much more imaginative than I ever was even though I've OFTEN been bored while shopping.

Ever since I came to The Greasespot Cafe I've been learning things about TWI that weren't covered by any other sources that I've found. Some of my conclusions still technically rate as opinion, but with so much testimony about how TWI abused people, destroyed lives, and totally mishandled the scriptures. (I know the biblical part doesn't matter to all my friends, but I've gotta point it out because TWI was billed as a biblical ministry.) What does TWI deserve from anybody in terms of financial support, or for that matter, how about the "splinter groups" or all the book sellers? In another thread I just read a long time poster comment about a certain weariness about all the TWI warnings on this site. Oddly enough, considering this poster's and my history, I AGREE. The agreement is there in this respect, I don't see any reason for continued warning without good cause. So I think if there is no real reason, what do we have to say? IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU. IF THEY CANNOT TREAT THE SCRIPTURES RIGHT. IF THE SPLINTER GROUPS REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUFFERING OF TWI VICTIMS. Remember poeople, it could have just as easily been your loved ones that were ruined. If they cannot summon the simple boldness to handle these issues honestly, out here in broad daylight where all of us can see the fruit. I SAY THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY FOLKS. HOW CAN THEY TEACH YOU ABOUT GOD WHEN THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH. They can't acknowledge the truth, THEY CANNOT THEREFORE EVEN FACE GOD, let alone speak on His behalf. This is my reason to warn folks today. PEOPLE,THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY OR YOUR SUPPORT. LET THE LIARS AND THE COVER-UP ARTISTS NOT GET ANOTHER BIT OF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY. IF THEY DO NOT LOVE YOU, WHY DO YOU BUY THEIR BOOKS? P.S. I think there are plenty of good groups out there, just be sure that there worthy people. IT LOOKS TO ME THAT MANY OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN TWI LEADERSHIP WERE TOTAL BASTARDS ANYWAY. It'd be better to keep you money folks, really.

Hi Psalmie,your majesty :), and I hope new friend, I hope you and your husband worked it out o.k. with your friends. I know how it feels to realize that a long term relationship maybe wasn't what I thought it was. And let me add that I hope that this is not what happened to you. I'm just waiting for some news.

Take care Psalmie

I'm happy along with you Rascal. I'm sure that you're not done with him yet however.

I'm glad you are looking at it Ham, I hope that my two-cents helps. From where I sit all the secrecy/ hiding doesn't bode well for the prospects of this program. I can understand why many folks are sceptical. I bet there are plenty of people who would want to support the program out of sentimentality alone also. The website is so obviously badly done that they would be better off without it in terms of the perception of their competancy that it gives, so maybe they're just looking for donations. The secrecy seems like fear to me. Fear of what? Maybe fear of criticism. But that doesn't bode well for a place to learn to serve God to me. IF THE LEADERS CAN ONLY HIDE, WHAT COULD THEY POSSIBLY TEACH THESE KIDS THAT WOULD BE ANY GOOD? How boldly take a stand while keeping your people, motives, location, and operating standards secret. Like I said before Ham, I'm glad that you're looking into it, but I agree with you that it doesn't look good. (edited for grammar)

I hope this works for you friends, it's the first time I've tried to type in a big web address. My uncle sent me the link in an e-mail. http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs13/f/2007/077..._alanbecker.swf

Oops, I just saw that the reference was included in the post.

. . . . . . I WISH HE WAS THE MAN HE WAS PAINTED TO BE.

I've been thinking about "emotional spin" some. Everybody has emotions and they are a necessary part of who we are. If we try to simply shut them down like some kind of Robot we will become wrecks. If we let our emotions run wild we are prone to falling into many, many mistakes. If people play on our emotions to manipulate us then IMO we have just been "emotionally spun." In culture their are many things that are specifically designed to play on our emotions to varying degrees of good and bad. At least here at the Greasespot I get emotionally invested in people, not the posts per say. Love of country, favorite brand names, movies, television, radio, computer and internet related activities, etc. etc. These are things that usually come with some emotional investment on our parts. I'm not saying that being emotionally involved in a favorite T.V. show is bad. But why not be aware of the fact that the people who write these T.V. shows were deliberatly seeking your emotional involvement when they wrote it. Heck, the whole T.V. industry (as only one example) knows that they exist based on whether our not you WANT to watch them. I have things that I'm emotionally invested in to one degree or another. As concerning TWI, I was emotionally invested in the picture of Dr. Wierwille's life that TWI promoted. I believe that they did this deliberately. I believe that if he was the man that they painted him to be I'd be just fine knowing that they did this to me deliberately because the picture that they've painted of his life was true. BUT, When I hear stories about his faults. When I hear stories that lead me to conclude that TWI made the abuse of young women a regular part of it's leadership's life. Literally institutionalized it that is. When I remember many teachings and specific instances that make it likely that TWI leadership had a BIG FRIGIN BLIND SPOT in these areas that the devil could drive a fleet of trucks through. When I think about the things that many victim's suffered throughout the years just recovering from the abuse. When I think about the suicides. THIS IS WHEN THE EMOTIONAL TIES THAT I HAD TO TWI GO AWAY. But you know what, I still feel it sometimes. NO MORE EMOTIONAL SPIN, PLEASE. Just give me the truth. How nasty did TWI leadership really become? Doctrinally and morally seeing the truth will be easier for me now. There was a mix of good and bad in TWI, just like anywhere else. I believe God will judge based on truth, not spin. (added in editing) IF TWI WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CONCERNED ABOUT TRUTH THAN SPIN THEN LCM,CHR!S GEER, AND A LOT OF THE REST OF TWI LEADERSHIP WOULD NEVER, NEVER, NEVER HAVE SAID SO MANY STUPID, ARROGANT, NONSENSICAL, MEAN, AND PLAIN UNBIBLICAL THINGS.

Congradulations Excathedra, what a wonderful boy he must be.

Hi Frank123lol, Depending on a persons point of view, anyone can seem to have spin I suppose. I think that the most damaging spin and the one worth stopping when it rears it's ugly head is deliberate lies that are spoken by someone who presents themselves as "speaking the truth." In that case I believe that the damage is done to everyone involved. But as is often the case, I think that the most damage is done to the one who's telling the lies, in the scripture I believe it leads to a state called a "seared conscionse(sp?)" but I'm sure that their are plenty of valid ways to describe this state outside of quoting scriptures. One example that seems it can apply is the thread concening sociopaths for instance. But here at Greasespot I've talked to some people and heard of others that make me feel far less than kind to these paticular SPIN-DOCTORS. Still, I think that on this thread about spin that it's necessary to talk about truth too. If for no other reason than "what spin is not" can be just as educational as "what spin is." But let me add that it seems to me that a real key is the heart's intent concerning the words that are spoken. IMO it's far easier to come to opinions about where someone is coming from than to prove it, if the speaker is lieing. Whether they even know what they are doing is another matter altogether. (edited for clarity)