JeffSjo

Hi JustThinking, Normally I'm not an enthusiastic poll responder at all, more like an anti-poller actually, but this one you started I really like. For me, my time in TWI was short enough that my interest in the Bible never wained at all, it only grew. I think if I had suffered as others have at TWI's hands that might not be the case however. After TWI I was involved with a little splinter group that deliberately did all they could do to break my spirit and ruin my life, and during that experience I've come to rely on the Bible even more than ever before. In that respect I am thankful. It's not been easy however.

Hi Doc holiday, I've liked reading the observations that you share in your posts even though the whole topic makes me feel a little sad. I used to expect so much better from TWI. As a PFAL grad I saw many good things taught that might have led to even more good stuff, and I believe it still. (That it might have happened that is.) But TWI took several hard turns for the worse and I fear that many folks are still living in the bottled up and stifled state that you so ably describe your former girlfriend and her family living in. I am glad that you recognized it for what it was however.

I know, me too. As if showmanship and manipulation could take the place of love and inspiration. Yuck.

I hope that dog was not the pick of the litter. When I saw this thread RottieGrrrl I was hoping it would be a video of your dog, but I can see why you're glad you don't own it.

White Dove, Colorful words that can be taken more than one way is what I usually see in your posts. Maybe it's just a communication thing, but I doubt it. Is it too much considering how that virtually everyone I've ever known in the ministry seems to have been taken in by ministers who lied about what was going on and destroyed people's lives to cover their tracks? Personally, I fear it is not enough!

Thank you everyone for going over the discussion that you all had that led to Eyesopen's response to my request that she share some of what she believes to be true with regards to homosexuality. During the course of the last few days one of my concerns was that I did not know the whole story that led up to Eyesopen's statement concerning having been attacked for sharing her beliefs. After what I just read in the more recent posts it seems that it was a challenging discussion that Eyesopen refered to, but then homosexuality is a challenging subject that pulls hard on the emotions of people, often in many different directions. My two cents on the conversation is that homosexualty is one of the things that was punished by death under O.T. law as it was written many centuries ago. So was spiritualism, adultery, bestiality, murder, breaking the sabbath, and on and on. The one that seems to come up the most often IMO here at the greasespot is adultery as it related to the practices of top TWI leadership. I'm not interested in condemning homosexuality any more than any of these things in general, but how top TWI leadership has behaved has perturbed me very much at times becase I've heard the voices of those who were hurt by them. But as a Christian, I think that there is a lot more to be said for patience, kindness, prayer, and the like when dealing with an aquaintance that happens to be homosexual. I think the quote that I think of often goes something like, "I desire mercy and not judgement."

The computers at my new library are terrible with these songs, it's almost impossible to listen to them now, dang.

I have to admit that if I had done my homework I would have used "Sarita" instead of "Hona Lee." Thank you Excathedra for the correction. Still, I hope that the point is not lost on anyone. Imagine, some dumb S.O.B. so full of pride that he cannot stop mistreating his girl. Considering that Dr. Wierwille promoted this film and that many, many people that were in TWI supposedly held it as a good standard, I find it to be almost unbearable how many of these supposed ministers treat folks that were abused by TWI. I think it entirely fitting to describe them as dumb S.O.B.'s.

As a American citizen I can think of several politicos that have been caught while attempting a cover-up concerning sexual allegations. Bill Clinton's been mentioned here allready. It's fairly common knowledge that the Clinton's have paid off several women with whom Bill has fooled around with. Gary Hart was a bozo that challenged the press to find dirt on him, and when they looked into it they found out that all the evidence they needed was a photo away at a yacht where he and his girlfriend was fooling around. One that has allways impressed me with the reach of the rich and powerful (so to speak) was the Chapaquidick incident that Teddy Kennedy was involved in. It seems like the Kennedy family had so much pull that they silenced all inquiry in all the law enforcement agencies. Real deft handling of the incident, that is a standard in my mind for what the rich and powerful can do. The TWI scandal IMO if not clouded by religious loyalty in TWI followers would seem more BOZO-like IMO by far than the Kennedy incident.

Hi Eyesopen, I'm very sorry that you've been attacked for how you aproach the subject. Personally, I've found that any approach that isn't bigotry is attacked by the bigots. Maybe this isn't a place that this can be discussed civilly, but I've found that hatred is not a biblical standard on this subject. God Bless

A man went to a psychiatrist because he was being troubled every night by the same dream. The man related how that every night in his dreams there would be a picture of a teepee, then a wigwam. And these pictures would just repeat over, and over again all night and he'd wake up tired every morning. The psychiatrist considered this thoughtfully for a little bit while scratching his chin. Then he said, "This one is simple my dear fellow, you are two tents."

And some people choose style over substance!?

LOL, for some reason my humor didn't always work well with the little lady either. GO FIGURE.

Dear Pawtucket, I thought she was Johnny Lingo's wife in the old movie called "The Ten Cow Woman" that Dr. Wierwille was suppose to like and that I've heard was often shown to the Way Corps. I HOPE THAT I'VE GOT HER NAME RIGHT, BECAUSE THAT MIGHT BE A MISTAKE THAT TOTALLY RUINS THE POINT.

What did that s.o.b. do to you Hona Lee? I know that you were a little rough around the edges in the old days, but what happened. That loser wannabe was suppose to know how to treat a woman. Now, he won't even stop beating you to this day, he's one dumb s.o.b. He acted like it's all about him. Then he threw you out like yesterdays news when he was done with you. Now he still beats you because he thinks that you make him look bad. Don't worry about this one thing Hona Lee, when your King sees what he's done to you that dumb s.o.b. is toast. (added in editing) After I posted this I realized that it would be better placed in "About The Way", sorry, it won't happen again.

Thank you DMiller for the history and feedback, It sounds to me like as things that were going on within top leadership were becoming clear that they tried hard to cover it up. I've believed the party line that I was taught about POP for a long time. Now it's clear that it is dishonest, disreputable, insincere, and very harmful. And the man who penned it is obviously no better. Your view of POP is more broad than the topic at hand, but then you remember more of those times than I ever heard before just recently. I think that one of its main purposes was to cover-up the sexual abuse, but what you said about leading folks to another place is perhaps an even more insidious part of the purpose behind POP. Still, cover-ups are commonplace nowadays when it comes to sexual stuff. If the pattern I've seen develope as of late holds true we will find that TWI top leadership did a crappy job of covering it up compared to their secular counterparts, we just need to be willing to examine it with cold hard reason and truth. I think a comparison might be educational if any of you folks are more up to doing it than my knowledge of current events seems to be. Still, maybe some more in terms of comparison later from me, I just have to consider this some more. Dear Waysider, I think that if we can help folks see this stuff as it is going on today that we've done something good here. Some of that will of necessity be telling folks how we were fooled once IMO. (edited for grammar)

Dear Socks and Rhino, Ever since I came to Greasespot I've been learning things that I never could have believed before I saw the really nasty, domineering side of TWI while participating in a small splinter group. I hope that this topic along with everyone's valuable input can help someone make sense of their TWI experience. I think that it's possible that even present day churches or splinter groups could learn from these type of topics too, but that might be looking for too much. It would take an outstandingly uprightly hearted person to admit publically that they were wrong and decieved, and would now do their best. SIGH... One can hope. With so much of the splinter groups handling of money based on TWI's model there certainly are many things that are wrong out there.

Hi Eyesopen, I've been looking for you to share some of your take on Homosexuality and the scriptures here at the Greasespot. Every once and a while a thread comes up that relates to the topic. Peace, JEFF

I am of the opinion that if Dr. Wierwille told Chr!s G$$r to do anything in terms of his last will and testament it was to cover-up his and TWI leadership sexual abuse. I think that "The Passing of a Patriarch" was an effective means to do this. In POP their is an admission of mistakes by Dr. But an unspecific finger is pointed at Don Wierwille. Then LCM is spoken of as losing it fast. Dr. admits that the thing was going bad from leadership on down, but then later Chr!s G$$r writes how the break up was everyone's fault. Characteristics over the years that I've caught is that leadership has shot down anything that resembles placing blame on anyone specific, even if their names came up in POP like Don Wierwille. The best way that I can describe POP as far as the cover-up is that it admits to really big faults on leadership's part but carefully makes sure that the blame is on everyone's shoulders. A masterfull attempt to muddy the waters and our thinking that has worked for the most part very well in twenty odd years within TWI and the splinter groups. All the while nobody takes responsibility for what everyone knows happened, TWI made sexual abuse of young women a "perk" for top leadership. THIS IS THE FRIGGIN PINK ELEPHANT THAT LEADERSHIP IGNORES. Personally, the only way I'd have any respect for Chr!s G$$r is if he had offered his own greased rear to Dr. to try to stop the abuse of women. Think about it, he never tried to save their lives, what a schmuck. And to think, I used to think highly of Chr!s G$$R, but it appears that was what they wanted me to think of him. It was just a little spin that was part of the cover-up. Like most cover-ups, I bet that these organizations have designated people to handle publicity and fallout. I think they specialise in behind the scenes work at keeping people quiet and unorganized. You think they don't? Wake up folks, today it's called P.R. _____________________________________________________________________ I know that many of you know more TWI history than I do. I'm wondering if we have some folks on this site that could make a comparison between this TWI cover-up and other sexual cover-ups. I would like to see if we could develope a point by point comparison for our learning. ______________________________________________________________________

Thank Mstar1, that song is a blessing to my heart.

Boy, talk about a spirit filled church.

Dearest excathedra, I don't know what it was either. I hope you're doing better now though. HUGS JEFF

Hay Waysider, Whar kan I get me sum Bubba Cola?