JeffSjo

I think the entire dog issue in TWI was messed up, and having a dangerous attack dog that was too insane for anyone but Chris Geer as it's been described somehow seems appropriate even though it was messed up. This is my take on how the whole thing with the dogs was. Some of it based on what I've heard of VPW and his dogs and some based on my small splinter group that used border collies and sheep to simulate what Dr. did with the shorthairs. The whole friggin point of the dogs before the attack dogs was that VPW trained people and that the template for his teaching ministry was how he trained the dogs. YUCH. You see, in my splinter group it turned into a real heady mix of teachers and worthless dogs who existed to serve the master's desires. YUCH. The whole thing was a real life analogy for how TWI leadership treated people, and they know it, it was never hidden, it was even rejoiced in. YUCH. It appears to me that between the creeping paranoia of assassination, the corrupt consciences of Geer and Wierwille, and the breakup of the ministry, that dangerous attack dogs was a sadly inevitable result of the insanity. (edited for clarity)

Hi Dot, It's been a while it seems, I hope you are well. I think along the same lines that Wordwolf does on this topic. But either way the thing that I always come back to when I think of Paul's time in prison is ch 23, vs 11 where the Lord and gave him a course to follow and something to do later. How huge it seems to me that THE LORD STOOD BY PAUL, I love it. Whether or not Paul was disobedient or not (even though I believe that he was) it has allways given me comfort to see this record of the Lord's faithfullness to him. JEFF P.S. You have inadvertantly (perhaps) given me a very good and sound scriptural reason to judge our teachers without respect of persons. Thank you, because it is a blessing to me.

Hi RottieGrrrl, Your rottie even looks like a real sweetheart, but I think putting her in a handbag is out of the question, huh. snicker, snicker Thanks for the picture and the story too. Jeff

Even if I'd have to think about it Sushi, I like your version better. :D

I'm really glad that you like them RottieGrrrl, I wish I had another one right now, but I do not.

Dear friends, I wish that the computers at my new internet access site could run smoothly when they run this type of interview, I cannot listen to songs now either. But I would like to expound on my earlier comments if you all don't mind. How can I not be sad when I hear your responses to a sharing that obviously has some nasty business to reveal. I only hope that Kristen is doing well. Many of you here at the greasespot have shared similar experiences and I don't have any reason to doubt them anymore. Kristen, Raplh D., Excathedra, Rascal, are a few of the TWI victims here who I count myself blessed to hear from on this site. Doubtlessly there are many others I've heard from too, it's just that these are at the top of my head right now so to speak. Not long after I got here I heard from Excathedra and Rascal and believed them and their stories regarding TWI abuse that they suffered. For me that was just the start and I see many, many things completely differently than I do now. Along with believing Excathedra and Rascal, I got into a very aggressive conversation with White Dive and a couple of others after which I was warned by the moderators to quit personally attacking them or I'd be suspended. Since then I've behaved myself. Right now the problem that I have with White Dove's post (in part) is that he thinks that this fellowship we have and the things that we share are not true apparently. He's stated that it's o.k. to hold on to bluebook doctrine, but he doesn't seem to think twice about deliberatly following a line of reasoning that is off-topic instead of doing the decent thing and starting another thread that would deal with the issues with which hre's concerned. IMO this type of behavior never was just TWI's leadership behavior, but has been the standard behavior for religious bigots for centuries. I believe it is trained behavior first taught by this twisted individual, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille as it relates to TWI. What I mean by Religious bigots is that some people think it's O.K. that they step all over people's hearts and lives in order to make their all-important (to them anyway) points. (This paragraph will be all sarcasm) After all, what the heck, it's just a broken hearted, battered, bruised individual that they are tromping all over. Everybody knows that God doesn't care for them, after all , those poor sappy victims only had it happen to THEM because THEY ARE AT FAULT. Besides, the KING OF THE SCUMBAGS that taught me the bible even managed to quote scriptures correctly while he bided his time in between young ladies who he wanted to f-ck. So please don't forget you poor saps that my king of the scumbags also managed to quote bible verses. PHAH!! White Dove, I am suggesting to everybody that they learn to SEE this in your posts so that they never,ever, ever go that way themselves. Because in my opinion, your posts are indecent and unbiblical and OFF-TOPIC. As far as truth goes, IMO you seriously need to consider these things that TWI victims say as being true along with what the king of the scumbags taught you. P.S. White Dove, For integrity, guts, truth, courage, etc., I'd pick Rascal and Excathedra absolutely any day over you, ANY FRIGGIN DAY. And I don't even know their names, but I don't CARE what yours is.

I haven't been able to listen to this yet. But your responses sadden me so much. This was apparently one sick, twisted human being who damaged many. Sometimes I wonder how many people are still faithfully following orders even. Oh God, this is almost too much. Take care friends.

Dear Oklahoma City WOW 78, I don't know where it is that you always get this type of stuff, but I'm glad to read and/or amused by your posts. Thank you.

Dear Bramble, I am very glad that I did not offend you by missreading your "I'm out" comment on your post, and I'm glad that I asked too. Dear Jen-o, I think the fact that I have seen Christians condemning homosexuals led to my post carrying through with some of that anger, but I am glad that it didn't disrupt the point of this thread. Peace right back at you too friend Jen-o. I really am glad for your post Ham, Many leaders both religious and worldly have needed to manufacture enemies to have people follow them. Personally, I am not nearly as upset when a country or a politician does it as when a minister does it. If it is true that as we judge, so shall we be judged then it looks like TWI leadership is in deep. Dear Geisha779, Thank you again for your post, but especially your points.

I knew an auto mechanic who made a good portion of his living by welding gas tanks with bad seams. The seams typically run horizontally about half way up. He'd fill the leaky tank with gas and then weld the seam as the burning gasoline dripped to the ground. He said that only the fumes would explode and he had done this for a long time when I had met him in complete safely too. Personally, I don't think I would ever choose to do it however.

Dear Oklahoma City WOW 78, I will have nothing to do with these things spoken of in this article. It seems to close to the same attitude of presumed superiority that my little splinter group had when they wrecked my life. I think that I'd rather be the Christian who tells them that their so-called Christian agenda for society is out of step with biblical Christianity. I believe that within the church Christians are free to figure things out and do the best they can in regards to these issues, but to try to reform culture at large is pointless at best; and developes dangerous, harmful, and hateful attitudes at worst. Whatever happened to "Wise as serpents and HARMLESS as doves" anyway. Doctrinally this is about the best way that I know to approach not just this topic, but pretty much all of them. (edited for spelling and grammar) P.S. I'll have to stop in about ten minutes, but I wish that I could stay and talk longer.

Dear Rhino and Jen-o, Yelling, I'm so sorry, that was not my intent. I'm new to computers in general and didn't know that capitalization can mean yelling, sorry. But my intention was to point out that condemning homosexuals because you believe that homosexuality is sin is wrong, and actually brings judgment from God onto yourself. I did not mean to point a finger at anyone here, but if someone thinks that I'm pointing a finger at them they are free to object to my point. For the record Jen-o, I'm not pointing a finger at you. I have met Christians who fit the shoes that I shared about however, and I have been known to run out of patience with them if they're persecuting homosexuals however. I have been known to exhibit real anger under those circumstances. Dear Doojable, Thank you for pointing out that maybe I wasn't angry. Dear Geisha779, I'm glad that you posted on this topic, I wouldn't mind hearing some more from you at all. I think the subject of how a Christian should treat homosexuals is a much more relevant discussion than is it good, bad, or something else. I think how you treat homosexuals is a gem that's worth a lot more than two cents IMO. Dear Bramble, Do I understand you correctly that you are homosexual? I believe it is my responsibility to treat you with respect whether you are or not. Even though I do not believe that homosexuality is a good thing in and of itself, I hope that I would not treat you in any way at all badly if we were to meat out in the world or here at the Greasespot. (edited for grammar)

I've been around and around on the pike with doctrinal discussions concerning homosexuality. Often times they end up turning into discussions that are no better than, "I'm right and you are wrong, dipstick." Some folks here have been around and around on this topic many times too. It sounds to me that they are bored with the straight doctrinal discussions also. Eyesopen has put in a lot of work on the topic and I'm looking forward to getting her book when I can. ________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________ LET US TRY SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT NOW, IT MIGHT GO BETTER IF WE APPROACH THE TOPIC FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE I treat homosexuals with kindness. I treat homosexuals with respect. I treat homosexuals with the friendship that is better than the friendship that God expects us to treat our enemies with. If one asks me, I share with them about Jesus Christ. He can save to the uttermost. I do not mock them. I do not backstab them with mean words. I do not gossip about them. ________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________ Romans 2:1 (KJV) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. This verse is talking about a lot more than just homosexuality as we relate to it. It is talking about hatred, being unmerciful, disobedient to parents, etc. etc. etc. JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE END OF CH.1 FOLKS. IF ANY OF YOU CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALS OUT OF HAND I SAY TO YOU THAT YOU ARE GUILTY OF BEHAVIOR THAT IS WORTHY OF THE SAME JUDGEMENT, DUHHHHHHHH! PREPARE TO BE JUDGED YOURSELF. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________ DOES ANYBODY WISH TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW TO TREAT A HOMOSEXUAL WITH GODLY LOVE? (added in editing) I have to go now, please play nice!

Zero said to eight, "Nice belt."

I think that you're correct here Caveman. It saddens me though that part of what I consider as the best from PFAL is remembering that we were to rise to the level of God's Word and not bring it down to our level. In retrospect, my experience in my little splinter group is that if you tell a minister who thinks he's the top dog that the reason his teachings are so bad is that because HE is the one with the problem you might be hated and rejected. Here at the Greasespot we have a lot of folks learned the hard way like I did when they tried to confront TWI b.s. Dear Brideofjc, That was such an interesting point that you made that I can't help but wonder where the information came from about the " stickers on the back of bibles." I shared with you once that I don't mind when people tell me stuff, but I have a habit of proving those things. Was it inspiration, was it happenstance, was it something else? Personally, if I'm thinking something I like to keep it clear where the thought came from as much as possible. Sometimes it helps me determine if a thought came from people or the spirit of God. ( I gladly ask for patience here from my non-christian friends. I can't help it, make of it what you will.) I've met folks who objected to that sticker and for the most part they don't say anything. BORING, BORING, BORING.

Fascinating point Brideofjc. The back of my bible will keep the old "Way Ambassador" sticker on though. Even though it reminds me of much worse things now than it did a short while ago, for me it's a true reminder of the cost of error and that God will judge. It may only work that way for me, I don't know. Peace, JEFF

I misquoted the scripture because I was working from memory without checking. You were right about the source of one of the scriptures I was refering to, but the other one that I was thinking of was James 2: 13 which points out that "mercy rejoices against judgment." I think of this as kind of a TTTHHHP response when a person judges another but God chooses to have mercy. I think that TWI had so much screwed up when it comes to homosexuality that I support Eyesopen's endeavor wholeheartedly. I admittedly won't be able to get her book right now, or give her level of labor its due consideration right now, but I hear what she's saying about needing to rework the whole field after her TWI' days. TWI missed the boat so badly on this one that it should be looked at anew IMO. Go for it EYESOPEN!!! (edited for grammar)

I hope you know that you rock my world! LOL

Dearest Excathedra, Yeah I know, I remember the little that you shared and I hope you know that you're in my heart and in my prayers. Love, JEFF

Two peanuts walked into a rowdy bar, one was a salted.

I think that it's very likely that after top leadership lost all biblical integrity and every other kind for the most part that they were only looking for good sounding causes with which they could rally the troops behind. IMO this kind of leadership is at its worst when the leaders speak of the things of GOD, as if their conscience wasn't probably completely corrupted by then.