JeffSjo

Thanks Rainbows girl, I'll get it. Just check my "edited" last post.

Dear Rainbows girl, I think that it would be AWESOME to talk to a real, live, in the flesh person from the greasespot, especially a friend. I can't p.m. however with my public internet access, but I have a G-mail account. sjolander.jeff@gmail.com. I guess that this will bypass the greasespot, and that's fine with me if you want to. I can only check periodically as I don't have private internet access. (added in editing) Just so you know, I think it's kind of fun to work through things like this, but I may bring someone who knows more than me to the library to help in the flesh. I'll let you know how that goes.

Dear Nandon, How about 2Ti 3:6-9 Note the consequences. I think that we're onto something here at the Greasespot! (added in editing) I think that in the scriptures there are a lot of condemnations on Dr.'s actions, in prophecies and commandment. My question right now is when to stop the list if we started one. And to get back on track, Aaron's sons who were destroyed for lighting a strange fire in the Lord's name. I mean if he was just another scumbag abuser of women that would be one thing, but the sicko actually justified it with the scriptures. HE MADE IT CHURCH DOCTRINE!!!! !#@%$&*!!!

Neighbors?, cool. :) I haven't figured out how to do anything yet. :( (edited for grammar)

Thank you very much for nthe encouragement friend. Now, if you don't mind, GRSC? Oh, never mind Rainbowsgirl, I'll see what I can make of your edited post.

GRSC? If anyone had any doubts about my computer illiteracy, they're about to be erased I guess.

Gallery? Is that part of my G-mail site or part of the Greasespot site?

Dearest, Methinks you are too self depricating. (added in editing) Wait, did I say that right? I mean that you seem too hard on yourself, all of us need some help after all!

Dear Mark, Yeah, it seems worse in my splinter group to me too! This is how they finessed this nasty saying in my former splinter group, FYI. It was o.k. to call him, "The Word in the Flesh" because it was God who worked on this man's heart to save us all from our faults and we owe him everything now. And further more, "The Word IN the flesh" is not THE SAME as "The Word MADE flesh" which is the kjv translation for that phrase that applies to Jesus Christ. I don't think they liked my attitude that it what they were promoting was deranged hogwash.

I've been blessed with an uncle that sends me jokes and pics that I think would be great in the "silly" section. I do not know how to post them here, not to mention protecting my family's privacy. I'm not very computer literate either. I know TERMS like "download" for instance but I don't know how to do it. I work from a public library system too. Can anyone give me simple and detailed instructions, please?

Dear T-Bone, That sounds about right to me!

Did it end up as a Greasespot?

Here's my take on this question. TWI became much like the nazi party in it's practices of an over controlling leadership and controlling folks through fear and/or propoganda IN SPITE of the rhetoric that implied honest and open consideration of truth, and good intentions. Even though some bad doctrine lines up a little with anti-semitism, that in itself DID NOT rise to the same level as nazi propoganda. In terms of leadership style however, it seems both Dr. Wierwille and Adolph Hitler could be very petty, self-centered, and destructive of people's lives at any whim they felt on any given day.

Dearest Excathedra, O.k., just check your E-mail. I don't think it would be right to out the twisted bastard that I had to deal with (up close and personal like) in public here at the Greasespot. But I'm happy to talk about these things with you as you'll see. :)

I'm no enemy of Psalmie's soul. And W.D., I'm still waiting for something good...... What would be wrong with Face time?

This conversation seems to me to center around a couple of questions that IMO are not easy ones to handle. I can think of several scriptural records surrounding Jesus Christ where the pharasee's tried to get people to thank God for Jesus' works but ignore Jesus. I'm not likening our view of Dr. as the same as that because I've seen ample evidence to believe that God and his word disqualifies Dr. Wierwille as a serious candidate for being a Man-of-God. I still believe that the Grace of God functioned in TWI through the scriptures even though Dr. was dishonest in his handling of the sources for his teachings of God's Word. I've seen enough to believe that the Grace of God functioned in people that I knew and not just based on stories about someone that I never met or got to know. If the Grace of God did live in TWI it was in pockets of believers that were not corrupted by TWI top leadership practices, but even then I believe that the leaven was enough to spoil the entire lump. One more thing for now, if you please. Sometimes when I refer to TWI I'm refering to leadership and their corrupt hypocrisy. In my heart though when I think of TWI I think of many, many sincere and good Christians who were simply duped. I believe that if TWI leadership had thought of TWI leadership as a group of believers that they were simply a part of that the TWI organization may not have become as exclusionary and twisted as it ended up being. Not to mention the truth (IMO) that many of us considered ourselves superior to the rest of Christianity. WE WERE FOOLS! (EDITED FOR CLARITY)

Dear Waterbuffalo, I did borrow from Vinces outline and the punchline he used was "PIGPEN" while mine was "BAAASSSTAAARRRD." I was attempting to put in real terms what Dr. did to many others while allowing himself to be billed as the MOGFDAT. In my splinter group the leader allowed himself to be billed as "The Word in the Flesh." To me the disease is the same but the words are a little different. In both cases their handling of God's Word and their behavior seem to disqualify them for being considered as much of anything besides puffed up madmen. It pains me to realize that in both cases good people have been harmed. Dear Tom, I know that you're about former leadership here being into honesty and I'm glad for it because it confirms the testimony of the many victims of TWI leadership that post here. In general on this site I prefer conversations being kept out here in the broad daylight where everybody can see and learn, or critique if necessary. Thank you too.

It still really is hard to take in when I think of the wonderful Christians that I knew in TWI, and then have to look at what went wrong in TWI. I think that the pressure cooker situation that top leadership was required to live in because of how Dr. set the ministry up compromised them. Now it seems that even though I knew many sincere and capable people that at a certain level, to be top leadership they had to sell out their integrity on certain issues. And because of how top leadership was trained in those circumstances they've became the worst liars (as a group) that I know of. It seems like trying to find out what went wrong from them is like trying to pull the teeth out of a live bear. HEY, SOMEONE GIVE ME THE PLIERS!

HOLY CRAP BATMAN! I always wanted to say that.

Dear Rascal, I'm always glad to see your smile. Dear Rhino, hehehe I had the same thought but went with it anyway. Dear Tom and Geisha779, I hear your concerns and I will not discount what you are saying, but instead continue to consider. Right off the top of my head however, I think that my feet may get a little bloody (if that's not overstating it that is, in some parts of the world Christians deal with real blood and not just a little rebuke.) but I did not spill this blood, and it looks to me like I may have to walk through it to get to people. I mean, really, like Vince Finnigan would mind getting shown what Dr. did to many other teachers by me borrowing the figures and the structure of my sharing from him. After all, at least I'm giving Vince due credit for his work. I'll even give him the majority of the credit if he wants it because I wouldn't even have had the knowledge without him. (edited for grammar)

Thank you Tom and Geisha779, A good while back Vince Finnigan did a teaching on figures of speech that I remember from the early eighties. As it was a publically offered teaching I have no problem using his name. I will now rework the figures of speech that he covered and even shamelessly copy his points and some of the structure, but the topic will fit this thread (hehehe) and still cover the specific figures of speach that he shared. If I said,"Dr. Wierwille WAS LIKE A BASTARD, considering he abused women, took credit for other folks work, and emotionally bullied many into submission," that would be a SIMILE. If I said,"Dr. Wierwille WAS A BASTARD, considering he abused women, took credit for other folks works, emotionally bullied many into submission, and caused the ruin of TWI," that would be a METAPHOR. If i simply looked at these things and yelled at the top of my lungs,"BAAASSSTAAARRRD!!!" That would be an example of the figure of speach "HYPOCATASTASIS."

Dear Tom, Ride higher brother? To the froward, HE is froward. Not too bad an example IMHO. That falls into the category of easily said, but hard to do however, again IMO. Dear Rascal, On the other hand, if anyone has suffered false accusations and suffered the consequences as I think many have then the story may well ring true for many.

Count me in.

Dear Tom, Thank you for the direct feedback. You've given me good things to consider. Some of what you've brought up I have been thinking of already, so here goes. I think that as it concerns Dr. Wierwille my emotions are well placed, especially since much TWI thinking centered around the promotion of a false picture of Dr.'s life and ministry. I know that you acknowledged that and I'm not feeling defensive at all about your post. I also posting my emotions DELIBERATELY in order for people to consider whether or not they are just. I suppose that me getting feedback on the matter is part of the process that I knew that I would go through by posting my feelings. IMO the TWI attempts to discredit emotional criticism of their stand is because THEY ARE AFRAID OF PEOPLE FEELING THE REVULSION THAT THEIR SICK, TWISTED ACTIONS DESERVE. Even here at the Greasespot it seems to me that Wierwille loyalists have tried to silence the ones who effectively shared their emotional reaction to learning about the evil that lived in Dr.'s heart. I think that from their perspective if they can silence the just outpouring of emotion and successfully make it all academic they find people easier to control, or somehow mitigate the wrath that they fear they may get. As I've heard many, many stories about how Dr. himself could shake up everyone in a congregation by pouring out of his anger I think it is extreemly hypocritical for these committed loyalists to seek to silence any outpouring of emotion that runs contrary to their positions when they themselves have been worked over by much DISHONEST emotional bullying by the head TWI bigdogs. As far as how far to peel the onion goes, HOW FAR DO I HAVE TO GO TO HELP FOLKS? My only concern at the moment is that I haven't gone far enough to make it clear to everybody, or to effectively counter the years of EMOTIONAL BULLYING that many suffered at TWI hands. One can only ride high on emotions and not hear the Lord, or one can feel emotions like my Lord did and still listen to HIM. What the heck, a guy's gotta have goals! (edited for spelling)