JeffSjo

Wierwille and my former splinter group leader seem to have had this in common. They both demanded genuine devotion that over-rides any other relationship in their victims' lives. Once someone gives a person wholehearted devotion it can be a hard thing to face that the leader is a twisted bastard that ruined many lives. I can still feel for devoted people who are incapable of facing up to the true nature of their "captor". But their feelings don't change the truth either.

Dear Brushstroke, When I was younger and in TWI people had a hard time handling the sex and drugs issue. It seems clear to me now that because of Wierwille's lifestyle that many people who could have used genuine love and guidance in these categories could not receive the help that they needed, myself included. IMO, people that have a strict religious controlling influence in their life that isn't accompanied by the kind of love that would lead to a real change of heart will go off the deep end (so to speak) when given the opportunity. I'm glad that you feel that you have your friend's best interest at heart too. JEFF Edited to remove Brushstroke's friend's name so that the WayGB or her parents don't give her holy heck for what he's revealed about her in this thread. Everyone: Please stop referring to her by name or mentioning her locaton or the name of the college she attends. Thanks, ModRocker

Simply and briefly asked, are there any faults in TWI that cannot be traced back to it being started by a sociopathic sexual predator like Wierwille who presumed to teach people the Bible. Oh yeah, not just that, he plagiarized, desired to be the big dog, crushed people like it was a game that he had the right to carry out, and fooled most all of us that he was a Man of God. How can anyone deal with TWI honestly without seeing that it's faults are a direct result of Wierwille's problems? It fits for me.

Dear Brushstroke, All evening yesterday I was wondering how to approach you with some constructive criticism on this thread of yours. When I go into a rant, and it may.....ahem.....have happened occasionally, I consider the effects of the rant on all involved. As you are a young man who has shown a very mature level of introspection, I would simply ask you, are you certain that as a Christian that you are comfortable with the motives behind your rant. I must point out again that as far as rants go it was well restrained IMO, but that doesn't speak to the motives either. And I don't know the situation well enough to judge any involved. PEACE JEFF

Dear Brushstroke, It sounds to me like you are dealing with the things concerning [your friend] well and I'm glad to hear it. Oh yeah, the rant seemed well restrained, good job. PEACE JEFF

It seems to me that in TWI, leadership apologies were simply another form of controlling and/or managing people. I saw it in my splinter group in a real big way and it gives me something to think about, like how did I ever believe them in the first place? But when an organization is founded by a serial sexual abuser it seems that humbly seeking forgiveness can only be a lost part of what most people consider normal life. I remember Wierwille accusing people of trying to convict him of sin, and saying that the Lord would judge. This now seems as a method of handling people and the situation in a heartless and cruel way in order to be able to keep his sick, nasty, cruel, and GODLESS lifestyle going. It heartens me greatly to hear Ralph Dubovsky say what he had to say. It heartens me greatly to hear of a woman like the ex-Mrs. John Lynn trying to help abuse victims. But these type of honest and humble things are clearly the exception from the ranks of TWI leadership and not the standard. But for what it's worth, I believe that the Lord will judge like Wierwille said. I wonder how the Lord will give him justice for all of his sociopathic manipulations? It surely will not be pretty.

Thank you very much Waysider! It's been a while and I think that I will read it again. IMO it makes it very plain that Wierwille completely blew it when it comes to God's heart for the Jews too. A great read.

It seems to me that for a long time TWI has been willing to destroy lives. It doesn't seem like killing someone would be a question of degree anymore, just a question of methodology. On the other hand, I've been public with this stuff for a while now and it seems to me that in my case anyway that the WAYGB is a paper tiger at worst. Probably can't muster up much of anything besides backstabbing cowardly tactics. LOSERS...

I've been thinking about this some more..... What I like about the Tenboom sharing (It was published but I don't remember the book's name.) was that the former Nazi guard was in a place of despair where the implications of his actions was hitting him pretty hard. I think that it is easier to see why a man in despair would consider being forgiven a gift from God. Who knows what he might have done to himself if it hadn't happened. It doesn't look like many former abusers from TWI leadership will ever be worthy of receiving this gift to me though. First off, there is a steady history of lying about it all. Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their consciences seared with a hot iron. Secondly, apparently most of think that they deserve to be forgiven, they're leadership and God owes it to them. Let nobody like that think that they will receive forgiveness from the Lord!!! Thirdly, a lot of their souls have been twisted by the TWI game of playing with these things in order to simply BE THE BIG DOG. They only use people's sins to put them down and cannot be honest for fear of being treated like they've treated many. GEE, other than these few things and many other things I'm sure, they are just a swell group of folks....gaaack! (added in editing) The folks that anger me are the ones who demand forgiveness from TWI victims right here at the greasespot. Where could their heads be.... let me think.... maybe they just want TWI victims to shut up. Sorry dudes and dudettes, I think that it's still time to shout Wierwille and companies sins from the rooftops... IT IS WRITTEN. THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED, LET THE WHOLE WORLD SEE THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE. It still might help save a few of them. That's my opinion, but I'm not anticipating much in the way of changing it coming down the pike.

I think that for me the years that I spent standing against and resisting my splinter group's doctrine helped me recover from the being controlled thing. But I still have been damaged, but I think that it was in a different way. Mostly I didn't have any initiative, just kind of in shock and somewhat immobilized.

I think that anger in these cases is natural. but one of my favorite stories came from Cory Tenboom concerning how she dealt with one of the Nazi guards who abused her and her sister in a Nazi prison camp. She was running a place to help victims heal and all of the sudden in walked a man who she recognized as one of her abusers. If I recall right it was obvious to Cory that this man was distraught by his actions and came to this place of healing as part of his recover for him BEING AN ABUSER. When Cory saw him she knew that she didn't have the strength to forgive him, but prayed to the Lord that if HE WANTED HER TO FORGIVE HIM that He would give her the strength to do just that. To make a longer story short..... she forgave him and credited the Lord with being able to do it. I think that perhaps it might have healed the former Nazi guard more than it helped even Cory heal.

Hi, I really, really hope that this goes well for the two of you. For me what's helped a lot is realizing and looking at how the Lord will treat these evil doers that caused sooo much damage, not just to our lives, but to the lives of many. When I see the PLAINLY stated consequences in the Bible to those who do these things I can't help but thank God that even though a lot of my life was wrecked by evil people I also see that the Lord has promised that he himself will avenge these things. I am also thankful that when I consider my own faults that I did not take part in such abuse in the Lord's name. Because to be as honest as I know how to be, I could have taken part in them if my life had been manipulated by Wierwille as LCM's and Geer's was. I also believe that the Lord was not wasting his breath when He said that the kingdom of God BELONGS TO THE BROKENHEARTED. When I think of the good things promised to those who've suffered in this life I take no small comfort. Peace and Love, JEFF p.s. I do not hold anything against those who have taken comfort from other things if they happen not to have the same world view as me either. After TWI abuse I'm just glad that they are still alive and have found something to rely in to put something good in their lives. Many are not still alive.

This is not a good thing IMO because I did not recognize it for what it was right away, but I've seen how this guy plays this game and I didn't respond with both guns blazing (so-to-speak) like I would now. But separating family members is a very finely tuned and practiced skill for this evil man. That is why I'm so very glad for the restrictions in my divorce papers. Still, in spite of that it would not surprise me if he wouldn't start making his move with my boy when the courts would start to consider my boy old enough to think for himself. Especially as his mother still seems to think that he is a MOG and a substitute for the father that she lost when she was young. Not long after our divorce she started to wear another ring on her ring finger. Even though she hasn't shared one thing with me about how she's thinking these days it's pretty freakin' obvious to me from whom she received it. For my part, I would treat that damnable thing like Moses did to Aaron's calf and utterly destroy it with fire, grind it to powder, and throw the remains in the toilet. ( I made up the toilet part myself) But to get back to this splinter leader, he has separated children from their parents even while they were part of the group by his doctrine. I remember little things that I wondered about when I heard Wierwille say things that now make me feel like he was striving with his brother Reuben over Rhoda's time and loyalty. In the "Thank You Dorothy, Thank you Rhoda" tapes that I heard a while back I remember Rhoda Wierwille testify in her sharing that Rueben was a good man. It didn't seem to me that Vic Wierwille took this to well, I thought I heard a little sarcasm in his voice when he thanked Rhoda for all her love..... My splinter leader got his ideas of being the one and only man in the group from Wierwille. For me this is an opinion that I consider now to be fact. I'm quite certain that in his twisted mind he rejoices over every family he tears apart for the sake of this devilish little kingdom of his that he calls the Kingdom of God. In the long run, I'm certain that he will pay for it, but for now he thinks that he's the man and he has taught that he's the man within the group. Even his number two, a real thuggish bully goes with the company line that his own son is better off for not being raised by him so much as the splinter leader. I know this because I remember him saying it in order to further this view within the group. Dear potato, Thank you for that input. I think that any reasonable judge would see through my splinter leader's b.s. right away. I think that the splinter leader knows this and for the time being has gone hands off as far as my son goes too. But as long as he has folks following him I'm certain that he is willing to bide his time and wait for the opportunity. JEFF (edited for spelling and grammar)

I'm going to go for the rest of the weekend now. But before I go, let me just say that with our TWI/ splinter group experiences I can understand why some of you would be concerned about being played by someone who only said that they were going through things alone. If I didn't see what I've seen it would be hard for me to imagine how wicked someone could really be who looked good on the outside.... ie my splinter group leader. PEACE Y'ALL JEFF

I think that it's a really good thing to have people on your heart Cheranne. I hope that you saying "haunts me" doesn't indicate that it leads you into feeling helpless or unworthy somehow. You have helped me with your posts. I still smile at the "Oh Snap" one that you did.

Dear Cheranne, I think that I can relate to how you felt. I hope that the damage is healed or still getting better for you. Many of your posts have made me smile and think. PEACE Jeff

Thank you all once again, I think that some of the hardest "put downs" to deal with in my splinter group were the ones that came from the teacher's podium. It took me a while to understand the method and even longer to see that it was manipulative and nasty. What can I say, when I was involved in such a tightly controlled group of people it was easy to keep tracking with leadership and everybody else. But as I tend to respect the podium and was in such control it was hard to deal with. The very first time that I felt the full impact was when my splinter leader did a teaching on King David, Nabal, and Nabal's wife, I forget her name at the moment. The story is that Nabal angered David. When David went to avenge himself Nabal's wife interceeded for her hubby and kept David from sinning against the lord. Then Nabal heard about what his wife did and it had such a huge impact on him that he died shortly after. Later David married Nabal's wife. All during the teaching when the splinter leader spoke of Nabal he looked at me. When he spoke of Nabal's wife, he looked at my wife. And this was about the time when the splinter leader's false prophet thugs were constantly comparing our splinter leader to David. I GOT THE IMPLICATION!!!! But the slimy bastard did it all without ever actually saying what he was doing or what he intended to do. But as far as the scriptures go I believe that even in the midst of such terrible put downs that I was given the perfect scripture to reprove his wicked put downs. Maybe that's a big part of why I hung in there and why I still seek to trust the Lord. For the next four years or so I was subjected to what amounts to several types of put downs that IMO amounted to mental torture. Most of them playing on the natural emotions a guy who still loves his wife would feel. But the intentions were to break my will and/or get me to do something so stupid that they could justify their intentions to break my marriage. But I do believe in marriage as a covenant and I didn't leave. I do not believe that sex with my ex was a factor, but all women belonging to the group leader is still exceptionally wicked IMO and damaging even if sexual relations are kept out of the equation. All during this time I was more and more boldly pointing out terrible Biblical workmanship that was getting steadily worse. JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW, I AM FAIRLY WELL VERSED IN THEIR METHODS AND THEIR GOALS. I'm just trusting God to show me the warning signs if and when my boy starts to turn away from me like my wife was turned. So-far so good. In spite of their extreme and IMO devilish methods and goals I do believe that they are also cowardly and will not openly break the restrictions in our divorce decree. But as much as possible I am ready for anything. When I first came to the greasespot almost a year ago now I thought that I would be needing to make friends with real people in order to get some help recovering from the many, many mind games that were thrown at me. Even though that has not worked out as I expected I've been able to see many of my splinter groups methods in your many posts concerning TWI methods and it has helped hearing about them from you all. You guys don't have a wait a year policy, do you? (Edited for Grammar)

Thank you The HighWay and Shazdancer, This weekend my boy once again impressed me with his ability to think for himself. It seems like a good thing too. I'm going to do my best to see that he doesn't get the wrong lessons out of the things that he sees and it seems to be going o.k. so far, thank God.

Just a little follow up before I have to leave for work. How could TWI leadership not be the biggest tools of them all!? I'd really like to know. In order to rise in the ranks, it looks like they've had to surrender the most valuable of all things IMO; a clear conscience. I respect the few that I've heard about who seem to have come to honest terms with what they've done to people, heck who hasn't hurt people in their life? But to give it all up for lies by Wierwille, LCM, and Geer etc., what a waste. But to be played like them...... Wierwille and cast has played on the very weaknesses that they knew were in TWI leadership. And all to cover TWI ASSets. And to be rewarded by the Lord himself the same as any other garden variety pervert enabler let alone the ones that were corrupted into being FELLOW PERVERTS. Even as they fool and/or were fooled into thinking that they were God's elit. WHAT A TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE FATE TO BE FOOLED INTO CHOOSING AS ONE'S OWN. p.s. I have to go to work now, but as far as TWI goes I think that I may be a long, long way from "mellowing out."

This sentiment comes from one of my mom's favorite coffee mugs..... I'M KICKING BUTT AND TAKING NAMES. ACTUALLY, JUST KICKING BUTT.... I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE NAMES.

SIMPLE BUT TRUE FOR ME, IF I THINK THAT I KNOW ANYTHING, I DO NOT KNOW IT YET AS I OUGHT. Who could possibly be too big for them to think that this sentiment that the Apostle Paul shared does not apply to them?

I've been trying to decide whether or not I would start a new thread or not for this post. I decided to not start a new thread because this post is about being a TWI tool. It's just that I've been thinking about some folks who even though they've generally been the most abusive of all TWI folks, I think that in the long run they will end up being the biggest tools too. Here is why..... I'm certain that within TWI leadership that there was and is a steady undercurrent of thinking that amounts to nothing much more than vainglory that brings about strife. I remember once when DWBH shared that he thought that EVERY MEMBER of leadership thought that if only they were picked to lead TWI instead of LCM that they could have saved the ministry. Another poster responded,"Not Every one." Cripes, when even the folks defending leadership admit that strife is rampant within leadership and the best retort they have is "NOT EVERY ONE" THERE IS IMO A BIG FRIGGIN PROBLEM. I remember Uncle Harry sharing with a little ironey that a lot of people thought that they could do his job in TWI better than him. Personally, since he appears to be at the root of Wierwille's perversions along with H.A. and other very top leadership I will never, ever think fondly of Uncle Harry ever again. But even he thought that selfish ambition was present in spades within leadership ranks. Here is how I think Wierwille and Geer have played TWI leadershipp as the BIGGEST TOOLS AND FOOLS OF ALL. I'm certain of these things as I can be. But since so many of you greasespotters have seen and heard more of TWI leadership than I ever have, I would appreciate some feedback. Wierwille and Geer knew a long time ago that leadership was a group of selfish glory hounds. In part that is how they could cow or corrupt them into playing TWI's abuse at many different levels game. I think that for them and other very tip-top leadership they just used leadership's own faults to play TWI leadership like concerto masters. (That use of master is not in any way related to Jesus Christ, but simply a master manipulator.) Didn't Wierwille supposedly give Geer his last will and testament? I heard this from someone who Wierwille said it to, that he would do this before he went to Scotland shortly before his death. I've got some news for you leadership fools. There is no prize that Geer or anyone else will give you. I know first hand that my former splinter group leader looks for such things. IT IS A BIG FRIGGIN LIE. Wierwille, Geer, Lcm, and probably Rosie just wanted to promote this b.s. to keep you puffed up self seeking leadership types in line. I know that many of you have been thinking such things. But you've been played even worse than the rest of us who were fooled. You leadership types have blood on your hands too for at the very least going along with the various types of abuse that you saw. Because of your unrepentant guilt, I believe that you will in the long run prove to be the BIGGEST TOOLS OF ALL.!!! TWI LEADERSHIP----- THE BIGGEST TOOLS OF ALL!!! (edited for spelling and clarity)

Dear, dear Potato, I just wanted to say that even though I didn't respond to this post of yours yet, it really, really blessed me. Thank you.

Thank you all very, very much. It's really good to have your feedback. My five year old son and I will doubtlessly be better of for it, and it's good to hear you all confirm the things that are in my heart to take care of him. Love and Peace, JEFF

Just to fill you guys in some more..... My ex and I agreed to keep my son away from these bastards within our divorce decree. When the mediator that the courts appointed heard my side of it he asked if that the same kind of restrictions that applied to keeping children away from child abusers were applied to our divorce decree would be adequate. I answered,"It's not perfect, but it will do." My son loves me, and I love him. My ex hates me, in her own words too. But for now the situation that my son is in seems acceptable to me. But thank you both for giving me some things to consider. The thing about this splinter group is that when they talked behind my back they also exercized control over my wife and my friends. It is a very toxic mixture of extreme control along with a twisted and warped view of life and the ministry. It was a very, very hard thing to face for me, and it damaged me quite a bit. My son is doing quite well in spite of his mother's opinions I think. It's always good between us. He talks to me about it, and I don't bash his mom. I think he knows that I'm the one that he can talk to. I'm trying to stay on top of it however.