JeffSjo

Well, how did she do with that!? hehehe

Dear Shellon, What you said is cool to me, I think that it is fine to consider these things for ourselves. Especially as it concerns family and loved ones. Also IMO TWI had this thing so twisted around concerning the gathering that leadership seemed to think that they'd be doing the choosing, not the Lord. But I really brought this post to the front to get Wordwolf's attention. I thought it would be very, very rude in this case to ignore you dear. That reminds me..... _____________________________ Wordwolf, It seems that you and I both agree that this topic is a big deal. And since my view has evolved away from TWI teachings I'm thinking that it may seem even bigger for me...so... Whas'up homie?

Excellent, put these two posts together and the TWI thugs could actually get some much needed edumacation...HA.

I have found out that if anyone googles "jeff sjolander" and then tries to click-on the one that will bring them here that the user will be informed that this link has been removed. The other thing is that my excellent library comuter system informs me that viral threats are present. As I mostly ignorant of basic computer competancy I'm not sure what is going on but I think I am glad that it is not my computer that may be having to deal with viral threats like this, because I do not have one. This situation has been going on for a couple of days. Can anything be done? Should anyone be warned and if so, how?

Heck, at least it is something that all the troops could get behind. But...unfortunately...it may actually encourage a pillage and plunder type campaign. A million rodents shouting,"NUTS".....shudder Plague indeed.

Hey, how about this for a BATTLE CRY! When the Germans expected one American general to surrender he replied with the ever classic response....."NUTS" The German translators had a hard time making sense of this response to the German commander. When they did make sense to their commander of this insulting response he was p.o.'d, to say the least. General Patton arrived in time to rescue the outnumbered and encircled Allied soldiers. When Patton heard that the official response from the American general to the offer of surrender was "NUTS" he called the general a "good man" I believe. "NUTS"....hey, that may be a great battle cry here.

Hey, I have a great knock-knock joke, YOU START........

O.K., How about your daughter as commander-in-chief and Ham as Generalisimo. I think the great squirrel in a Patton or MacArthur get up would make a great generalisimo.

You may be a TWI tool if... While correcting ettiquette errors at the dinner table you habitually yell and have food spewing out of your mouth.

da da DAAA d d d dah d DAAAAHHHH! (UUUHHH....trumpet fanfare) I hope that it has been a good thing for you Krys.

If any of you saw fit to explain this I would really appreciate it. Or at the very least I might get something out of it.

Dear Darrell Bailey, I have no doubt as to your good intentions or the sincerity of your searching. But as it pertains to TWI doctrine many of your statements are too generalized for me to form any opinion other than I would tend to believe in your sincerity. And many, many specific doctrinal points have been bandied about for years here at GSC by folks who hold many, many different beliefs. A lot of that work and history has exposed what IMO is simple plagiarism, vainglory, and strife in Wierwille's actions even as he set up TWI. And I don't seem to have met many people who seem to be able to consider that point of view scripturally honestly. It seems to me that it was inevitable that due to Wierwille's intentions TWI was doomed to be rotten from the get-go. And as the Lord has promised to burn up lousy workmanship and take revenge on those who have despitefully used and ruined people financially and in any manner to sate their own piggish lusts that your dry and intellectual manner seems to me to fall a bit short of dealing with what really was going on among Wierwille's kids back in the day. Not to mention the inevitable leaven that has leavened the whole lump. BUT WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU THINK IS "BABY" AND "BATHWATER" (added in editing) (I had to log-off for a bit)(Oh yeah...sigh...spelling too) It really seems to me that without complete honesty on the part of those who attempt to keep the Word alive TWI style that folks are pretty much being set up to fail in their endeavor. If someone is unwilling to take a real honest look at what the epistles say are the consequences of Wierwille's actions that they are unqualified to discern between "The baby and the bathwater." And if ex-TWI leadership doesn't openly repudiate all the hidden, yet cruel methods of leadership that they are almost certainly carrying on with all those manipulative and oppressive mannerisms. And if ex-TWI leadership doesn't openly handle each and every single legitimate complaint that many folks justly have that all their claims as to "great biblical truths" seem likely to be just more self-serving spin.

If you are right htere Hammerino it is a sad thing. But it would simply be another example of the lack of transparency that often characterized TWI leadership b.s. in my view. I mean, (sarcasm warning) God forbid that leadership would ever allow the unwashed, uneducated masses ever know what is really going on. It seams to me that Paul had one thing going for him certainly, and that was his life was so open and honest that even his critics knew exactly who and what they were going up against. He did not hide anything. So the TWI tradition of the Word being taught by people who seem to have been in hiding since the first century continues.....sigh (I may be forced to admit that that last crack was BAD!)

Dear Watered Garden, That sums much of it very nicely for me. And in my former splinter group I was amazed at the docile and content nature that the followers were expected to have while top leadership was encouraged to preform base brutality against many hearts and minds. Your sharing reminds me of the saying "Let not the strong please themselves unto their own edification." And leadership brutality and politicing lacks much of the grace and class that true etiquette contains.

I've been thinking about my perception of TWI leadership and sadly some of my impressions from the early days were far more relevant than I knew at the time. Playing politics to be in control. Handling serious biblical issues with spin, not substance. Deliberately destroying folks' lives for petty and twisted reasons. Deliberately demoralizing people into NOT THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. Turning a group of wonderful vital people into a group with about as much life as an ancient Egyptian crypt. Encouraging and thriving on the unthinking adulation that even a false reputation can bring them. Billing themselves as "THE MAN." Yes, even Rosie. The thing is that sometimes I wonder if these very human problems are still with us. Learned habits and feelings can be a real b1tch to deal with. And people still have a tendency to play politics and build a rep, not just in TWI, but even here possibly. I'd like to throw in just for good measure, please don't let folks who may still have these TWI patterns come after you in a multi-website feud of some kind. They probably are capable of wearing you down, they have a lot of practice doing so.

I pick HAM as the obvious choice as generalisimo of this elite force.

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime. Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle. It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor." So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are. I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

So without further response from Caleb is this how we are to see this exchange end? One young man takes a small step out of the Mississipi swamp and into a place where all his beliefs he must knew may be challeged. He gives an aggressive post with a direct threat while claiming he will be handling questions and conversations for months to come. And as soon as a teany little bit of heat arrives he steps out, omly to never be heard from again. OMG I would like to believe the young man is o.k., but nobody that knows anything is saying! Is he being shut in with a bunch of faithful for a patented TWI style "healing". Are they mad at us enough to foolishly desire to carry out the feelings of anger in the initial post? Is the young man strong enough to realize that our intentions were for his own good and it may be that his "manoGod" is the real villain? But even though v2p2 may well be carrying out that role I do personally feel compassion for a young man who himself has been indoctrinated into his supposed life's purpose. TOO MANY QUESTIONS, TOO FEW ANSWERS. IMO

You may be a TWI tool if..... You let them destroy other marriages before they got to yours. (For me, splinter group experience, but painful to consider nevertheless) You may be a TWI tool if... You falsly accuse others of slander and do not even say that you are sorry..... (No code breaking necessary I trust) You may be a TWI tool if... You are o.k. with someone being falsely accused of practically criminal actions as long as no one dares calls you "braniac."

Your husband must have been a very good man Shellon. The first...uh...third aid folks at ROA were completely incompetant however. So glad you are here.

I do believe you are onto something Oh Great Squirrel. I'd like to have a go-round with the ones that propped these kids up with false prophecies and visions of glory. It's kind of like a wannabee version of making kids suicide bombers in some respects. At least with suicide bombings the actions themselves that the kids are trained to do are impossible to be anything other than violence against the enemy. But some of these kids actually are being taught to think that the bullying is some form of love. AAARRRGGGHHH! YEAH, I REALLY WOULD PREFER A GO-ROUND WITH THE HIGH MUCKITYMUCKS THAT SET V2P2 on course!

Cool thread Skyrider, It makes plain to me that it is pretty darn hard to hold to the "good things" when TWI leadership has been freakishly persistent in trying to hide or distort the "evil things."

I really like the contrast here between you last two posts Oakspear and Wordwolf! So I am going to have some fun and put some thoughts down concerning the contrast between the emotional reaction of Oakspear and the reasonable intentions of Wordwolf and see what comes out in the wash. (so-to-speak) Dear Eagle, I have to pretty much agree with Oakspear's reaction. Because, yes, a lot of people here have been to hell and back more than once riding on the leadership of those who, whether intentionally or not were judgemental preachy bastards. And as in TWI when the judgmental and preachy bastards also happen to have complete and total control over people's lives and more or less completely ruin them I just hope that you give us a little space to vent. And on my part, I will not hold it against you that your first post shows the judmental and preachy tendency that many of us understandably have come to despise. And I would give you the same privilidge as anyone to learn and grow, period. But emotionally speaking, a judgmental and preachy bastard needs an entirely different lesson than their pride tends to want to allow. I think that even a judgmental and preachy bastard can gain ground if he/she even learns to actually shed some tears for those whose lives are so wrecked that all they manage to be able to do is lash out in pain. But if the judgmental and preachy bastard actually doesn't ever learn to relate to the broken souls they try to preach to...well...I think that whether it is proper or not, they just may get a little crap for it. And even if the broken soul never actually says it to the judgmental and preachy bastard, the broken souls do have the ability to spot judgmental and preachy bastards IMO. But that ability comes from the school of hard knocks. So as you, EAGLE, are not actually controlling the lives of the victims of TWI that are at the Greasespot (THANK GOD) I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO DO MY BEST TO EXTEND YOU THE KINDNESS OF ALLOWING YOU TO LEARN WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE FROM ME.

Boy, this is a good one. I can see the possibility of someone benefitting by a confrontation. but as the history of TWI proves to me that many or most times someone confronts someone it is just wrong-headed, counterproductive, and potentially damaging to someone's heart and mind. But the first post in this thread..... while I believe fits the afformentioned scenario to a tee, still is making me chuckle and sadly shake my head a little bit. GO FIGURE!

Hi Rascal, I am not sorry that you said anything, ever. When I first got here it was evident to me that you were fighting against things that I too found morally objectionable. And a little looking around convinced me that you have manged to actively resist and counter things that were being said for a long time. And also that for the most part you were willing to do it more or less on your own. So while I welcome any good growth or change of perspective the the Good Lord happens to bring your way I in no way even want to step on your toes, even if you are being ganged up on. But this last weekend I decided that I was pretty much tired or the double-team you were facing and had to say something. Now from what I have read sofar today, it looks like the conversation that I was referring to has ceased...good...but I'm going to finish reading first. But the reason that I don't mind you speaking at all is plain and simple, in many respects I consider you to be my better, as opposed to being my equal.