JeffSjo

I hear you Kaptain, welcome to the Greasespot cafe. I hope that you are doing well in spite of these things.

Uh...after all tese response papertrained I feel it may need to be said that you are the only freakin one of us that can make your intentions and your perspective clear to us..... will we have to wait another several years for you to do so?

I think I can build on my first post a little Because of how you pointed out a difference here Tzaia. In my face bullies or a bully who attacks others seems easy to deal with for me now, usually. But backbiting, gossipy stuff sometimes leaves me feeling weak and even beaten. I think for me that is because a large part of the meat grinder I went through in "RRF" was based on this kind of stuff. The manipulation of peoples' opinions, heck, even my ex-wife's. Most everyone can relate to these kinds of things in some way I suppose. But as much as I would tend to say or yell, "I don't care what you think of me!" I also remember that RRF"s manipulation of what people think caused me a lot of grief and cost me a lot too. So, personally, these types of things are harder on me and harder to deal with.

Dear Waterbuffalo, One of the things I was thinking with this thread is that oftentimes when I consider how I've reacted to a situation it seems to me that I can trace my reactions to an emotional response in me that originates in the awful behavior that I received in my former splinter group. and while it would be pointless to attempt any in-depth analysis of anyone's behavior here at GSC I thought it might be o.k. to share this so that others might see that they are not the only ones who are still carrying baggage from the old days and that it effects how they deal with certain things now. I hope that whatever life brings you that you handle these things better. Sometimes I know that I could have handled a bully better too. Dear JT, I am very glad that you have found people that bless you and leave you feeling built up here at the GSC. that is always a cool thing to happen. As a relatively new guy around here it seems that GSC is dealing much better with those who seems to have proved that their agenda was only to be obnoxious enough to chase people away from the conversations at this site. When I first got here this kind of thing was very common. But of course some of us may have done or said the very same things at differing times only to find out that we and our bullying only served to make us tools for the manipulators that set us on this course in TWI or the splinters. and as much as anybody else we all have the right to experience a change of heart too. And I feel that this bullying was especially damaging in that it chased away the very people who were beat up the most as a member of TWI or the splinters. Dear Kimberly, I really like it when that kind of thing happens, a misunderstood and hurting person who lashes out at vulnerable people has his/her heart softened....sigh. :) But when TWI was in full swing it seems like the sociopaths in charge have to a large extent proved themselves beyond reach of this kind of thing. But I can only be certain of that because of 20-20 hindsight, you know, like who can argue with results? Although many still do I suppose. But it also seems that others have changed......COOL. great post darlin!!! It seems that sicko-psycho TWI style leaders have proved themselves very, very adept at finding victims' achilles heals. I can remember many times as a member of "RRF" that anybody who was seeking for things to better were only beat down by leadership casting doubt on them. And when those "RRF" victims internalized these doubt causing attacks they/we had a very, very hard time getting out from under the bully's thumb. And I personally feel that since TWI leadership pushed people to the point where they committed suicide in despair IN GOD'S NAME that their consequences before God will be especially painful. Regular schoolyard bullies seem to me to be able to become decent people a lot easier than TWI bullies to me. I feel that is so in large part because of how sincerely caring a face they can don when it suits them, they became real pros at hiding their cruelty until it became effective in how it manipulates people.

I've been considering this topic for a bit. It can be summed up as looking for how I've reacted to bullying since my time in "River Road Fellowship." And as I've seen others react to TWI style bullying in many different manners since I've been here I thought I would make a couple of observations and then see where the conversation goes. I've seen bullying here at GSC that seems very easy to deal with since "River Road Fellowship" messed up so much of my life. In most cases it has been easy to deal with here. There have been other times when facing certain things that reminded me of the TWI style censure that I endured that have left me feeling weak and incapable of dealing with behind the back gossip, judgments and such. OOps, I'm out of time for now. I'll try to get back later or tomorrow. Gotta go now.

I can understand why folks that have been involved have a carefully built-into-them blind spot. Such things have been done to people fairly regularly throughout history. William Tyndale even once spoke of those of whom he would be better off trying to persuade a post than to continue to pluck that folly from their brains.....sigh. I can understand how Wierwille has his cronies become a network of enablers or fellow pervs. This has happened fairly regularly throughout history too. I can understand why TWI deliberately includes the threat of lawsuits in it's arsenal. But I am sickened by how they twist scriptures to prevent well meaning folks from going after them while they themselves are just as narrow minded and vindictive as the very worst of any selfish, self centered TWIts. I can understand why some gentle and kind people would feel that the guilty verdicts weren't worth going after with everything they had, both from the perspective of what it may cost them and what they themselves might become. I can even understand why some former TWI leadership may unfortunately have encouraged folks to not engage TWI by going after justice in the court system. Butwhat I do not understand is why more fellow pervs and enablers have not come clean about it all. I think it just makes it more likely for the TWIts to fool more people with their b.s. IMO a guilty verdict might have made a real difference.

Wouldn't it be nice if Caleb told us he was ok, or that his intentions have changed, or any other kind of follow up? Maybe it just didn't work out for him as he anticipated.

I've been reading and thinking about this work by Dr. Juedes since you put it here darlin. I am really glad that you put it here for everyone to look at without needing to do any digging. It's simple to do and allows everybody to understand (especially me) why I've been looking at creepy bug imagery here from time to time. It seems to me that Juedes' conclusions run very closely to the things that I've picked up from my own experiences. And he gave us many well laid out doctrinal points to consider. But for me the thing that really gets me is that even though I generally resisted all these types of things as a part of "River Road Fellowship" is that I could not stop them from maintaining an abusive and controlling relationship with everyone else in the group and that I did not stop them from convincing my ex-wife that I was evil for resisting them. One of the hugest things for me to see is that because I still felt that Wierwille was sound at the time of these events is that I was fighting crap that had already taken root in our heart and life that was a big stinky load of crapola, but I did not know it.

Dear Twinky, I know what you mean about LCM's language verses mine in that particular post. I'd hate to end up being that which I hate. (see Rom. ch 7) And that is exactly why I've decided to hold off more crude language, which LCM proved so adept at in the course of trying to beat people down to get them under his thumb. But as it applies to my particular former splinter group V.B. could let the rude and crude stuff flow out his mouth like an over used sewer. The thing that I object to the most is that in TWI and the splinter groups there seems to be a certain status that being able to abuse people with rude and crude language implied. The top leaders seemed to be able to blast away at people without any oversight or accountability. In my former splinter group the act of this type of abuse was a mark of status. And with his narcissism being also a factor he was sure to reject any fellow-turds who took it upon themselves to put people down, especially in his presence. Once he cussed his wife out for making a minor mistake cooking the spaghetti sauce. He did that in front of the entire group. I think it forced folks to get used to his abuse and facilitated his control over everybody. Once he spent an afternoon more or less cussing out everybody during a men's work day. Once he cussed out (I am not making this up) a military jet that flew overhead during some kind of maneuver and woke his second oldest boy up from his afternoon nap. I think abusive cussing is part of the mark of TWI leadership and the proof that in spite of all the bible quoting, it is an abusive top-down organization. The same goes with my former splinter group! (spelling and a little added for clarity)

It seems to me that saying,"The Way is not to be confused with The Way International" seems pretty smart in terms of being prepared for trouble. Their stance is transparently biblical and saying that they are not the same seems like a really good thing for them to say. But saying,"We want to be more culturally relavent" not only made me laugh out loud, but it is the type of thing that some folks say if and when they are actually spoiling for a fight. Sheeesh, I almost have to like these folks already.

when I first read the title of this thread all it thought of was how the poor Way Corps folks were subject to regular verbal beat downs by top leadership in order to feel that they needed to be retaught, again and again, over and over....etc. Ever learning was in truth, ever being pushed under their thumbs. In other words the whole f'in enchilada was messed up, bigtime. No wonder wayfer sympathisers think we are only bitter. But IMO they might not feel like that if they understood about how all the abuse they suffered themselves or became afraid of by watching others suffer was only to bring them into the sick and twisted TWI party line. ever learning = ever abused!?

Sometimes it seems ironic that a comment such as "grow a pair" was used to bully and push people around. Whether your hubby is confrontational or not he definitely had a pair in order to not run with them in spite of the abusive verbage.

Yeah, anger certainly does have it's place. Like the guy who gets conned so badly that it costs him everything is likely to be the most wary to get conned again. One of the things about calling myself a schmuck was to deliberately point out that in my view I am better than nobody in this respect. We are all potential subjects of a con. And even if we can tend to assume reading the scriptural records that we would not be decieved, well in my case all the years I assumed I was serving God when in fact I was serving the self interest of not just one self-serving narcissistic turd like Wierwille and his TWI but then I was taken in by another self-serving nacrcissistic turd and his River Road Fellowship. And now in more than one case these creepy prophecies and imagery have served to put people down like EL, well, anger may be an issue for me too, but I don't feel that my anger is missplaced. Why shouldn't we get angry at a$$ kissing false prophets who ingratiate themselves with false leadership to facilitate their control over people's lives? I remember Greg Ferret back in the days when he was running with JAL say how they trained the prophets.(so called, that is.) And I see nothing sound in any of this now. I do feel for EL who because of her hubby's lack of spiritual perception had to endure such battering. At least as I was conned I did not put on airs as any great leader or give myself a nickname that also implied "the king". BOY, IF THAT WERE THE CASE I'D CONSIDER MYSELF TO HAVING EARNED A "DOUBLE SCHMUCK" AWARD.

Great question! If anyone can show one of supposed revalations of Wierwille's to actually convincingly prove God's predestination and the show the inevitability of God's councel I'd be surprised. Right now for me it seems that the ones that I recall Wierwille sharing only seem cleverly designed to keeping us smoking the Waybong.

I think that in reality it is pretty stupid for everyone who reads a bible record to assume that they would recognize the truth and avoid the false prophets. I think human capacity for self-delusion is fairly evident if we can be honest, but when it is tied into a ministry that is supposedly teaching and speaking for God delusion seems nearly innevitable to me now. I think that whenever I read scriptures in years past it was common for me to assume that I would automatically get it. but that happened when I still thought that TWI stood for God. What a schmuck I was.

I've been looking through this now. Thank you, thank you very much Shellon for telling me where I could find some specific info. I'm kind of amazed at how this stuff went down. but in my owm little splinter group the prophets were on a very short leash and had to kiss V.B.'s a$$ in a very big way to be heard. It seems in this case these prophets tied themselves in with the ones who ran the show just as much as V.B.'s little toads were forced to do with him. It's easy to say now looking back, but it is a lot more difficult or perhaps even impossible to put a stop to this sort of thing when the false prophets tie themselves in with the top leadership.

Yes, the lawsuit is certainly a possibility. I can hope that they'd choose to win the fight, but it is up to them to figure out how to respond to TWI if a lawsuit happens again. (grammar)

Hi Tzaia, It seems pretty clear to me that the ones who tell you this concerning your husband most likely intend it as an insult to you both concerning how your family runs. It sounds like you aren't refering to life in Wayworld, but as things are for you now. And even outside of TWI insults, put downs, and ignorantly judging folks like you and your hubby seem to be not an unknown occurance. But personally, I don't see how they feel they have the right to give the two of you such an unsavory commentary.

This last post has been bugging me steadily since I posted it yesterday. I don't REALLY mind the crudeness, because LCM was often a very, very crude man. And when describing his actions it seems abundantly clear that he was often rude, crude, and lewd in his private actions and in the things he did and said as the president of TWI. So while typing words that themselves are crude I feel there is justice in describing LCM's lewd, crude, and rude behavior with language that makes it very, very plain that in spite of the times that many Greasespotters legitimately remember interaction with LCM that was kind and even times he was charming, that he used his charm to cover up and give people reason to excuse his many, many lewd actions. What I DO REGRET in the previous post is ascribing lewd actions to LCM that I can not be specifically certain of. I can not with certainty ascribe to LCM specifically encouraging his wife's fairly thoroughly reported lesbian activity. The truth is that I can not be 100% certain that LCM thought about it at all, except to feel fairly certain that considering the crapola he learned from Wierwille that it is possible he considered his marriage to serve as a kind of sexual healing for his wife. But as this possibility is concerning a man such as LCM whose many lewd actions have been testified to by many people it also seems likely that any considerations he might have had as concerning "sexual healing" were twisted by the things he learned by Wierwille. So as to the specific issue of how LCM's lewdness might have played out in his marriage I regret speaking beyond that which I can feel certain of, but not for using crude language to refer to a crude, rude, and lewd man such as LCM. I also think that I will not do a lot of that anymore, unless I feel especially certain that it might actually help someone see LCM for what he was, but in most cases tried to hide or simply put a pr style spin on for the sake of the TWI faithful for years now.

Probably quite a few folks that are his equal Bolshevik. But ignorance can leave some with clear consciences still. I try not to use too broad a brush. I may have missed and even ignored much over the years. But when I heard it for the first time right hear at GSC, I mean REALLY heard it, a lot changed for me very quickly.

This is the kind of thing where everyone would be better of if we really, really sucked at the scam business. Worst of all if we were good at it.

Yeah, like..... Even though I have encouraged my wife to muff dive I am sending the ministry into a homo purge. Not a quote of LCM on my part, but isn't that what he did?

holy crap is right Bolshevik, I hadn't connected those dots as of yet. But I have been feeling sorrow for those who can not even admit to thinking that Wierwille was a perv and a predator because he was built into their faith as some kind of foundational piece in their thinking. It seems to me that the very, very best he can hope for is being burned up as some kind of hay or stubble in that day. But I think that there are still folks for whom Wierwille, the legend, is so deeply ingrained into their faith that they can not even listen to his lewdness without feeling their faith is being attacked and undermined. Heck, that might have been me not too long ago.....hhhmmm.

When I saw this kind of thing in my former splinter group I considered it leadership stroking them with one hand in order to beat them down with the other. I think my particular false Apostle balanced stroking them enough so that he could beat them into submission but still have them willing to be thankful for it.

HEY, right now page one of this thread has a couple of exterminator adds on top. Right now that is a little irony that I can get into..... Get thee behind me spidey-butt. (See post #12) Good one Waysider, and a well loaded statement too. hehehe (yep, it was spelling that I had to correct....sigh)