JeffSjo

The year was 1983 Tzaia, late spring or early summer limb meeting for the state of Minnesota. I shared about this one before and my recollection is still fairly vivid. I wish I believed her now of course, but I also figured that it was odd she picked me (a stranger) to share it with and I felt that if she insisted on forcing the issue with me after I blew her off I would have to deal with it. But when I remember the condescending and really, really bad theology that came out of my mouth I am not surprised that she did not insist on making me listen to her.....sigh. ______________________________________________ To everyone else. I am glad this thread is still here...I was a bit emotional yesterday...... I also think that appropriate emotions might have made us a little less prone to being jerked around by TWI leadership types back in the day. If they are afraid of emotions in people when it comes to the topic of their abusage, well....maybe we ought to work it once and a while. I am not afraid of my emotions, they can at times be our strength.

I can't stick around any more and really don't think I should right now anyway? I hope this thread's title and my post that I quoted here is enough to get things going. I really, really should just go and get some fresh air right now. Breath.... breath

Not me Bolshevik, that's for sure. Between leadership that was heading it's own hypercontroling splinter group direction and my disbelief of the one and only woman who actually told me the truth back in the day(Summer 1983), and people who knew the truth but not see fit to at least discuss lawsuits or yell louder about what they knew; I thought that the people who were speaking ill of top TWI leadership were the bad guys. P.S. And you people who did not scream it from the rooftops and admit your own faults too, just stay out of my way now! I've seen the next generation of TWI disease all too clearly.

Hi Grand-daughter, :) I've had dreams that have involved many River Road Fellowship people too. For everyone dream that I can remember it seemed obvious to me that I had unresolved issues. I am not concerned at all if I have such a dream or if I do not. Either way I suppose I will do my best to come to terms with these things. And about the jail thing, somebody will eventually have to testify for that to happen. If and when that happens I do not intend on putting up with any deliberate misdirection according to halfazz cliches and/or fainthearted doechebags trying to stop them from speaking. (edited for spelling)

Insults Ham and Rascal, Ignores it when people point out that insulting TWI victims is wrong, Jumps into Greasespotters and the poop references with zeal, Complains of being treated with meanness after insulting people yet praises those who treat him kindly, even though he has done nothing to earn the kindness. I THINK I MAY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO OLDIESMAN AFTER ALL!

I have often wondered how many "fighting the devil" scenarios over the centuries have only covered up what really amounted to incompetancy, cruelty, and brutality.

That sounds ok TommyZ, can't complain about encouragement one little bit. Considering how Wayfers have been led around for decades by somebody taking it upon themselves to inform others as to who is or isn't "flipped out" or in this case as ClayJay did, calling somebody's soundness into question I hope everybody understands that even a bit of an overreaction is acceptable. But in my case, I was definitely holding back. :B) People telling others that somebody is off as TWI leadership did back in the day to lead folks about when they have no business doing so in terms of competance, care, or intimacy just needs to freakin stop IMO.

I might as well put this one here. It applies, former friends who keep your mouths shut.....

Darn, and here I was being patient with ClayJay and he had to jump right into the standard "wallow in your poop" line as has been common with those who try to not be forthright with their desire to still believe that TWI leadership crap be covered up and have some kind of deoderizer and camoflague applied. It makes this very simple Clay jay as you are forthright in your intention to cast doubt into the considerations of newbies as they consider the viability of GSC. And as I considered your post it seems like a measure of patience in your case appears missplaced on my part so far. TWI is concerned about GSC. Many people here share about vile and nasty things that TWI did that led to broken families, PTSD, and even suicide among victims of TWI leadership abuse and delusion. And while I would be willing to not cast doubt on your intentions as I shared in my first post on this thread...how is it that you are not at all concerned about casting doubt on the motives of TWI victims who decide to keep the truth about the nasty, rotten garbage that was at the rotten center of TWI, which organization once had many of us believing that it was an honest and good organization? Yeah, I believe you are right about the relatively decent folks who may be involved with TWI doctrine still, but it seems likely to me that they most likely never had Wierwille or Martindale sexually abuse their wives or daughters. They might find themselves a little perturbed in that case, right ClayJay? And then only to have some doofuss come in here to accuse them of wallowing in poop?! And considering what some of these folks who keep their experiences out there for all of us to see suffered at the hands of TWI leadership it is evident to me that your intentions must come from a place in your mind that ranges somewhere between incredibly f'in insensitive to legitimate victims who suffered much at TWI's hands to, on the other hand, deliberately and intentionally deluded and desiring to keep newbies away from the experiences shared at GSC for you own misguided reasons. The poop that we see at GSC started with that sociopathic sexual predator by the name of Wierwille and flowed downhill to his own sh!tty children and eventual splinter groups all over the world. If you don't like the smell ClayJay I would suggest picking a side that is not identical to the TWI loyalists...braniac.

watch it Michael B.......Yosemite Sam is a comin to getcha.

What people have shared make it plain to me that WayGB exists. That is why anonymity is such a good thing for many Greasespotters. But to keep them in perspective the cartoonish/buffoonish characterizations seem good for me.

Hey you two, it's a good question, no sweat. I asked it myself not too long ago. WayGB is a play on KGB of the old Soviet Empire. Compared to people who have really had to engage in a real sense, the WAYGB is a group of cartoonish buffons, unless TWI (The Way International) still has it's hooks in a family member or old friend. In that case they can be very cruel however. The first few times I saw it I thought it meant the Way of Great Britain.

The best or most useful answer that I can recall got me thinking. In TWI were were taught to treat strangers as friends and family. And furthermore how painful it was when these so-called friends aggreed to mark and avoid you. Turns out what is a real friend is one of the best considerations but but also the most difficult that I have fielded here at GSC. And it turns out that a lot of my old friends still associated with River Road Fellowship are no better than the mind numbed Wayfer that followed leadership's directives to mark and avoid. Oh well, live and learn. (edited for spelling and content)

For all the verbal abuse and bullying that TWI and the splinters have shown themselves adept at and as damaging as that can be, when it comes to the WayGB at GSC it seems most useful to me to think of their effect on GSC as some kind of pathetic "Key Stone Cops" group. Or maybe Clousuea in the "Pink Panther" movies. Or those Leslie Nielsen movies that were so funny. (yep, for spelling) I'm sure they think they are necessary, vital, and imposing.....idiotes.

Some peoples wounds run very deep. Combat and domestic abuse PTSD can last for decades too. But there isn't any of us except those who I happen to know the very, very best who I'd trust to tell me that this place was actually hurting me. And it wasn't that long ago, Clay Jay, when the ones who repeatedly bring up your very point and throw it in victims faces only seemed interested in shutting down this exchange of ideas and potential for help to TWI victims at GSC. Because of that and my not wanting to doubt your intentions, I hope you'd understand that I am being patient.

It wasn't that long ago that I openly shared at GSC that I was looking for real friends. The silence was deafening. But with all the concerns about the internet and the dangers I understand the silence. But no answer at all was actually a very clear answer to me. (edited for clarity)

Yep, lets warn the newbies. Let's warn them how exhilerating it is to poke holes in once solidly held beliefs that were only smokescreens to keep abusive leadership in power. Let's warn them how exilerating it is to stack up the things they believe with others that have entirely different world views. And then find that it is ok to mutually disagree instead of all that puffed up, virtually slanderous, and a little dense TWI stance. Let's warn them how refreshing it is to learn what was really going on behind the scenes. Let's warn them about the ones who for the sake of the newbies stick around to make sure the truth about TWI is still heard, especially for those more freshly out of the splinters or TWI proper. (added in editing) Let's warn them that for a little while they may go just a bit overboard in the face of all this honest and often profitable exchange of information and ideas until they find themselves with a very different world view than the TWI iron rod. And just for me, personally, I can't help but gaze in wonder until the Lord Jesus christ himself shows them what His iron rod is really like. But I don't hold anything against any of us who patiently tolerate my biblical perspective.

It seems I didn't have the details quite right even after you told me before Darlin. Thank you for clarifying that one for me. :) Broken lockbox..... better than stuffing all this nasty crapola IMO.

Hi OldSkool! I have enjoyed your posts very much. As things clarify as to what you intend to post and why for you, I will certainly like the updates as to TWI current events. When I first got here not too long ago I didn't even know what Rosie looked like let alone have any idea of what was happening at TWI headquarters. For me it seems like, same st!t, different group is a modified adage that applies. I wish you all the best, may you perturb all the right people by sharing your story. :) (edited for spelling)

Those are some of the most honest and real posts that I can recall reading at GSC Granddaughter. Thank you for sharing so openly. :)

TWO-CENTS WARNING ______________________________ So, if an abusive and controlling organization makes long overdue changes because they were afraid of the consequences of their evil ways but does so in a manner that leaves them in control over what people do, have they really lost their control?

Some of your expeience seems familiar to me Oldskool. While for me those types of experiences happened in the splinter group "River Road Fellowship" instead of TWI, it seems to me that in many respects my splinter group has simply continued many of the worst TWI practises. And now even though everybody ackknowledges that mistakes were made many of my old friends don't have a freaking clue how far Barnard pulled them away from honest and transparent ministerial dealings. Currently I have heard some of them are saying Barnard deserves patience, love, and getting God's Word spoken to him. In the mean time he's cut and run taking many of the young women with him along with some of his most pliable cronies, both men and women. And consequently I've heard some of my old friends saying of me things as, "I can't talk to Jeff and still expect to help people." But it seems to me as one who saw Barnard use some of my old friends to completely screw ME over that I have the right to expect them to be willing to deal with how they treated me while under Barnard's influence. A sound scripture reference seems to me to expect them to win or lose me as a brother according to their willingness to be honest about what happened to me. If it were Barnard expecting as he did to have the man that he spit on apologize for falling asleep and disrespecting his ministry I would know it was a wicked and abusive power play, but since I want to talk with them about how they helped Barnard and were part of me losing my wife and son that I am being reasonable in expecting their forthrightness. GOD WILL JUDGE. And that while they say they are holding on to things that Barnard did that are far scumier than anything anyone has the courage to share with me so far they simply have been bamboozled into another pointless and false nobility that has been styled after TWI's lockbox. And furthermore, since they refuse to handle these true events with honesty and transparency they simply hide the damage thay have aided Barnard in committing to many individuals and families. And similar to TWI ex-leadership I am fairly certain that they would not be encouraged to be honest as a witness in any kind of lawsuit as is fairly common such as "Estrangement of Affection" and other things.

:wub: You said that soo well Shellon... Hi Dawn...Yeah, what she said!