ChasUFarley

dmiller - same thing here - You got a Mac? (I think I'm missing the plug in... - I have a G3 with X)

Try The Vermont Country Store - it's like going back in time and even their catalogues look like old-timey ones - interesting to browse...

exie - LOL - that's quite a mind picture... although my gym teacher was a lesbian, so it really would be as bad as seeing a man do it! LOL! --------- Teachers are under a microscope every day. Hubby can tell you that if they breathe wrong, it's reported to a parent or adminitration. He's not one to get called on the carpet - he's been teaching for a long time - but I would expect that [a] the gym teacher doing this deed would have to have the principal's approval first and you can bet that nothing will be done that your kid wouldn't see on PBS or Nick Jr. - it's probably going to be pretty politically correct. And if you find it's just not sitting right with you - give the principal a call or email - "Hey, I'm concerned..." - they should gladly address your concerns and either tone this event down or change it. It's certainly your right to voice your concerns! ------------- BTW - When I first met hubby, he shaved his body because he was powerlifting (in competitions) and the bench shirts and squat shorts would pinch and grab - he was like a human chihuahua. I finally got him to stop (hated the friction)

pond -- I'm not the victim-type -- quite the opposite. As a believer and as a woman, I felt I had to make it work. I thought it would get better, or maybe it really really was ME. It wasn't until I was able to put distance (time and physical distance) between myself and Xxxxx, that I was able to see it wasn't ME. Sure, there were things I said and did no doubt that probably got under Xxxxx's skin, and likewise. However, that gives no reason for any man treating a woman like I, and other posters here, were treated - and it all being justified as "God's will". Yes, there were things about Xxxxx that made him seem like a good choice for marriage - but you expect your spouse to grow in the marriage with you - not stay stagnant in their maturity and squelch you. That's a recipe for disaster if there ever was one! ---------------------- Shellon -- Quite the contract. I just want to know what that dude was going to do with all his wife's underware, slips, pantyhose, etc. ? It was downright laughable to read - I bet his cell mate will give him a similar contract! LOL!

They should rename themselves Teflon Way International - nothing ever sticks to them! (And what rubs off is harmful!)

We were at my mother's house the summer after my dad had died, and just before we were to go out WOW. My mother had planned for us to go to the Castle In The Clouds in NH, as Xxxxx had never seen it and we thought he'd appreciate the outing - it's beautiful. My mother had also invited my brother along, who also happens to be gay - not openly at all, but it was known within the family - but very hush hush. He's a very manly man - you'd never know unless he told you - and he doesn't discuss it. I respect that. Well, this was TWI 1993. You can only imagine that homo teachings going on within the ministry at that time. That was the time that the big homo hunt was starting - and it was ugly, lemme tell you. As we were discussing our plans that day, Xxxxx became very upset about the whole thing. Finally, after begging him to tell me what was going on, he said he didn't want to be in the "same space as a sodomite" - meaning, my brother. He stated that he wasn't going to be in the company of my brother, and if I went with him that I would be a homo-sympathizer, which if you were around TWI at that time, you knew that meant that you were considered as bad as being homo, if not worse (how they figured that I didn't get, but anywho...) Xxxxx was almost out of control - in front of my mother - about this. It was nuts and she was scared to death! It was clear to me that Xxxxx was making me choose between him (and the ministry) and my family. I flat out told him that if he forced the decision that he would loose! So, while he was at my mother's house (remember - she'd just lost my dad less than 6 months previous) - he gets on the telephone to our old LC and spills his guts as to what was going on. I knew I was in deep doo-doo then - there was no doubt about it. He was told to keep the peace while at my mom's - don't make waves - and that they'd deal with me afterward... (We were headed to the ROA to go WOW after this - they never ended up 'dealing' with it - ha!) Well, it seems my brother was also in earshot of all this - unbeknownst to us. About 30 minutes later, my brother came up with some excuse why he wasn't going. Of course that's when Xxxxx goes, "It was the bright spiritual light that drove him away!" (to me, he said this.) If I'd have been smart, I would have pushed Xxxxx off a balcony at the Castle In The Clouds and stayed with my mom.... Nope, dummy me went WOW with Mr. Wonderful! (By the way - my brother and I are great friends to this day - we never discuss his personal life, but he KNOWS he's always welcome at my house.)

Just curious... Any men have this happen to them that anyone knows of - first hand or otherwise?

The Green Mile? (I think I also heard it on Sponge Bob... gawd, I can't believe I just admitted that... ) Take your pick... I'll post a line when someone confirms if I'm wrong or right...

Stuff like this isn't as "weird" as it sounds... schools do stuff like this all time to motivate the kids. I know one school where the principal kissed the school mascot - a goat! In another school, the vice principal shaved his head, and so on.... Yeah, to us it seems weird/sick - but to the sence of humor of a 7 year old - oh, man! THAT'S FUNNY! (Remember, they also think that making fart noises with your palm and armpit is a scream!) I don't think you have anything to worry about... it's probably all in good, clean fun. Oh, and on a side note - weird punishments are also popular - Hubby, who teaches math in public high school, is known to make kids sing their way out of detention for talking or other "minor" offences. He chooses a song like "I Will Survive" or "It's Raining Men" or something by some pop group that no high school student would admit to liking, and makes them sing in front of the class - acapella. They get embarassed and remember the punishment - he very seldom has repeat offenders - And almost never sends a kid to the office (and he's a tough teacher!)

Groucho -- I'm sure you're right - I got involved with TWI about 2-3 years after VPW's death. I remember how badly LCM hated it when people acted like VPW - he put a ban on people breaking up Life Savers candies because I guess that's what VPW did (this was before Altoids were the ministry endorsed breath mint.) (All the better for melting your face with, my dear!) When I was in, it was everyone wanting to be like LCM. Personally, I think VPW was easier to tolerate out of the two of them. Justloafing -- Maybe it's none of my biz - blow this off if you want - but how long were you in? Why did you get involved? Were you a wayfer brat who had no choice but to go along with the parental units on staff, in the WC, or whatever? In otherwords, were you involved outside of your own freewill choice? Just honestly curious, as I don't recall your story...

OMG - not only did I soil my shorts, but I think my cat messed his cat suit, as he was snoozing on the top of the monitor.... then STRAIGHT up in the air, tail all big, and scrambled off somewhere. Poor thing! I'm going to send you my cat's shrink bill!

What I wonder about as I read this is... Would VPW have WANTED a sect called 'Wierwillelites'? I never met the man, but I know he didn't even want his name on the WOW Auditorium - not that that stopped a balding Okie from putting it there after he died. I don't think he'd have wanted that. Maybe I'm wrong - so what? I'm willing to go there - it's my right. The common thread that all of us have on THIS thread is that we were all involved with TWI at some point. At some time, something about that organization scratched our itch spiritually. Some people have chosen to move on to other demoniations. Some have chosen to stick to what VPW taught. Some have denounced everything - hey, where did Larry P go? - Anyhow, like anything else in life - from Amway, to eBay, to Southern Baptist, and so on, you'll have your share of zealous people. So, why is it a problem? I don't get it. Do I think that PFAL and VPW are sacred cows? No. If I did, I wouldn't post here. Am I glad I took PFAL? Heck, yes. Sure beat what that bald Okie was promoting - lemme tell you. If you never had the pleasure or pain of sitting through a WOAP class, it was spiritual fingernails on a blackboard. Do I respect VPW? Tough question. I respect his work, as he introduced me to many theologians that I never would have found on my own, most likely, and did make the Bible more understandable though his teachings. After learning about some of the things he did - yes, he could be a real SOB - I know my rose colored glasses fell off along time ago. In all, I would have to say that my life was better for having had PFAL and so yes, I do have some respect for him. However, for the people who feel otherwise, I also respect their right to their opinion - perhaps they have better reason for holding stronger emotions against VPW than I do - that's their right. So, why is it a problem? I don't get it....

Thanks for the responses, although I hope noone thinks I posted what I did for sympathy - I'm so far removed from that now that it's not even funny. After my divorce was final and I started dating again, I remember thinking, "What will I ABSOLUTELY NOT put up with this time?" In short, I needed someone who let me be human, and let me be myself. Mathman (that was hubby's handle on Waydale) does all that - he lets me have a pretty long leash - I have my hobbies and interests - he doesn't butt in. I do likewise for him. Topoftheworld - No problem with your question - I've asked it to myself several times over to try to figure out what the hell happened. Xxxxx grew up in an abusive home where his father had a drinking problem and was an angry drunk. I think Xxxxx saw that example of how his parents encountered each other and brought that into our relationship, although he did not really have a drinking problem. He would drink, and could get a little verbal when he was feelin' no pain, but never took a swipe at me when he was drunk. I think I saw him in this condition maybe four times in six years. Perhaps his lack of respect for women or a spouse came from that - I don't know. I do believe that having the scripture about submission, and the way that TWI taught how a husband and wife were supposed to act -- like she would lick his boots any minute and talk to him about every thing and make a schedule with him so that he would know her every move and how she would have sex with him 3x's a week, as that was what leadership recommended to WC, so that's what peons should aspire to... (oh, no... I'm not making this up or kidding!) -- I think those things were just extra tools to do the damage. I know things would get worse whenever there were teachings - like the BeLIEver's Family Class by LCM and DM - whoo-boy, those were tough because Xxxxx would think he needed to tighten the reins a little more then and I thought I was going to suffocate sometimes! Of course, every now and then I'd come up for air, try to tell him what I thought or try to do what I thought was right (for me) and get totally shot out of the saddle - that's when he'd call leadership to tattle, and I'd be called on the carpet - like going to the principal's office. I knew I was "kicking against the pricks" but sometimes just had to do it -- I was too strong willed (not me!) and too opinionated (suprised, are you?) not to... So, I probably "asked" for some of it... So, I don't think there's an easy answer to if I was mistreated because I was [a] a spouse; a women; [c] a believer - I think it's a YES on all levels. I think he would mistreat any woman today if he was to remarry, and I think he would still use scripture to isolate her, intimidate her, and utilize her in whatever way he thought was best - according to The Word - of course.

In case y'all were wondering about the outcome of this (yeah, I'm sure some of you are just losing sleep...) this was a no go... Seems I have XP home - not professional - on my PC. AAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! So, I did a quick, easy fix. Got hubby a printer for the iMac and a flash drive in case we need to share files. The home network is not an option... (I'm about sick to death of Windows by now! AAAARRRGGGHHH!. Again.)

Uh, check with your cable provider to see if their tech support would still be able to assist you if you don't have their cable modem (Surfboard). Some won't. Mine draws the line at my router, which my cable modem is hooked to, then my computer is hooked to my router. The other thing to consider is that if by renting their modem that you'll be able to quickly upgrade in a year or so, as the technology improves, simply by bringing in your old (or even defective) modem and swapping it for a new one. Do the math - make sure it's worth it. Welcome to life in the fast lane!

Call me a fence-sitter on this one... Do I regret taking PFAL or getting involved with TWI? No. My life changed for the good when I took PFAL. I became more self-confient, learned how to trust God, and many other things that I had been looking for. It scratched an itch, so to say. What I do regret is staying in for soooo long. I regret taking what VPW taught ABOVE God. I deeply regret taking what LCM SAID above God. See, in my opinion, and in the TWI I remember, it was MEN who were worshipped - Bible worship would have been refreshing, because at least it would have been closer to God. Maybe now that TWI has a *different* president it's more like Bible worship, but from what I remember.... Well, how do you explain the analogy of the covered bridge into the Promised Land? That ain't in the Bible - that was from a man - a revered (oh, GAG) man. What about the term "marked and avoid" and HOW it was used? Again, a man taught that and misused it. I could go on - and I'm sure many of you could, too. The God that TWI (VPW) introduced me to was one more worthy of worship than the one that was presented to me later on in the form of a balding Okie.

Talk about retaping the PFAL class and see what happens....

One other thing.... In TWI, after the end of the ROA, did anyone in the mid-late 90's get to really TALK with anyone at Advance Class Specials, etc., about what was REALLY going on in their area? HECK NO! It was "put on your best blessed face" while in your mind you're thinking, "Man, this BLOWS!" Say nothing bad. Hear nothing bad. See nothing bad. I honestly wonder if part of the reason for LCM nixin' the ROA was so that people would be more isolated. Wasn't isolation one of the fronts of the adversary? Hmmmmm. Maybe I'm thinkin' of the front of other people. Yes, that must be it. I remember as an innie finding stuff out on the 'net long before the news broke from my HFC - like when Dr. Don had lung cancer. Us peons were too stupid to know about it - but it was on Waydale long before we were told about it. I just KNEW not to talk about what I had read on the net - plus there were other posters writing about how they got in trouble for talking about something they shouldn't have known about ONLY because it was on the net before leadership was told about it... Talk about a mind _ _ _ _.

Thank you, Belle, for inspiring this one, as something you said in a post on another thread really brought up some memories... I'm not sure if I know how to put this into words in a way that will communicate exactly what I'm trying to say - I'll do my best here... My first husband and I married in January 1992. He had a strong suit in witnessing and could memorize scripture like there was no tomorrow - he was amazing! He was also very zealous for "the present truth" and wanted very much to be like LCM or whomever had a bigger nametag. He was a 'company man' in the way that he was willing to do anything, say anything, be all things - well... you get the picture. He never questioned the latest and greatest commandment, and never spoke ill of anyone - even when they were dead wrong. At times, he could be a down right wimp about how he let others talk to him - he wouldn't defend himself even when he was right. The problem with being married to someone like that was that he was quick to point out my weaknesses to leadership - at times without even talking to me about it first. It was hard to be human living with someone like that, as every move was watched and even reported, depending on how "tight" he was feeling with leadership at the time. In times that we were having problems in our marriage - which far outweighed the times we weren't - I felt like I was under a microscope without my permission. When I tried to defend myself, or even just be true to my own thoughts or whatever, I was met with, "You're not submitting! You have a problem with who is the head of this house!" (AAARRRGGGGGHHHHH!) I can't BEGIN to tell you the compromises that I made - to myself, my family, etc., - during that time. I'm just talking about the emotional crap here - never mind the physical - that's another thread... Even when I went home to be with my dad when he was dying, I had to leave early because Xxxxx felt that I needed to be back with him "moving the Word". I wasn't allowed to grieve - when I returned home one week after the funeral and was a crying one afternoon, I was told "I thought you'd be over this by now!" So, you know what? I sucked it up - I didn't let him see me grieve because I didn't have "permission"... I still resent him for what he put me through during that most difficult time - I wasn't able to go to my dad's grave until 10 years later - no kidding! It's sickening to think about the compromises I made to "keep peace" when I was really being kept under his thumb. As a wife, I was beaten about the head and shoulders DAILY with verses about submitting and how I wasn't yaddy, yaddy, yaddy.... I could do no right. When I did do something right, it wasn't quite good enough or with the "right kind of heart" - HUH? If TWI is still teaching the same crap they were 10 years ago - and they are. Then, how have they changed? They haven't. Are they kinder and gentler? Very doubtful. And if you carry that logic onward, it means that women are still being held under the thumb of a "believing" husband who abusively uses scripture ("the present truth") to his advantage to lord over his wife in a power trip. Sorry, but that ain't no marriage - and it's NO way to LIVE!

Bobbin Bobcat... I envy the sheep... think I'll join 'em (whoops! Did that already with TWI, now didn't I?)

I have tinnitus in both ears at times but can also hear weird frequencies, like the cycle hum of a television screen from the downstairs, or a montior screen an office away. (It blows my kid's mind when he thinks he's sneaking by turning on the TV and I can hear it with no volume!) Same with florescent lights - I can hear most electronic cycles. (Damn handy when I'm trying to trouble shoot a dying PC fan!) I've been tested for about everything you can imagine and then some, but with no real diagnosis - I've had it most of my life. When both ears are going one is almost a fouth octave A#, the other is fifth octave D# or C - it can be quite annoying when they're both going - like two soft dogwhistles in my head. Someone once told me that it's probably food or enviroment allergy - and I'm sure they're right. But I've had it for so long now that I seldom think about it... not enough to "do" anything about it (the tests for everything it wasn't was bad enough, thank you!)

Cool chef - I'm with you. I'm the only woman I know who procrastinates on these things. My husband actually knew what he was going to buy weeks ago... the poor sap is getting a card, flash drive, and DVD from me - doesn't that scream "I LOVE YOU!"?? (Personally, I'd be thrilled with a flash drive, but oh, well...) (and the DVD is a collectors edition of his favorite movie, which is a love story....) I'll make it up to him...

One year ago today, 02/14/05, Andreas John was born. It's hard to believe a year has passed since then, but today we are celebrating his First Birthday! Elmo cupcakes & milk for everyone!

dmiller - I love it! Perfect! That little gif is the word fitly spoken!

Oh, Belle - YOU DIDN'T?! I bet that was reported up the food chain of command pretty quickly and was a milestone of the breakdown in your believing to bring you to the place you are today, outside of the walls of Zion, beyond the believing protection of the Household of God. YOU GO, GIRL! It seemed to me that the Law Of Believing left no room for God to offer you other answers to your situation. Additionally, it was sick to teach it the way they did because what if you were believing for a sick child to be healed? TWI taught that since young children couldn't believe for themselves then it was up to the parents to do it for them. Well, can you imagine the guilt parents would experience when their ill child died? Sure, it was all their fault because they were not believing, right? I can't imagine a more devlish teaching - as dmiller pointed out. On a smaller level, but no less dangerous in its potential outcome, is how a believer could act like a four year old in a toy store with this 'positive believing' theory that TWI taught - I remember thinking that God must get sick of us always asking him for stuff - reminded me of spoiled kids! Some people were so materialistic at times - it was sickening to listen to! TWI sure had a way of making sure they told God what his Will was, don't cha think?