ChasUFarley

Belle... after reading some of your posts, I think you and I must share a brain or something. I totally agree with your points about JAL's letters. I met him once about four years ago in NH. I didn't find him to be approachable at all and was quite disappointed by the whole thing. I also questioned the "personal prophesy" thing he was into - I mean, didn't that fall into the "God-told-me-to-tell-you..." category? Anyhow, I felt outcasted immediately because I didn't blindly jump on the bandwagon. (At least I didn't end up wasting 10 more years with another cult!) I find it interesting that someone is willing to knock other churches/beliefs/organizations, etc., when they were knocked for running off and starting one themselves! Rather than considering that another group might have the same truth and be Word-oriented and/or research-driven, they assume because THEY are not a part of THEIR GROUP, then they can't possibly have the TRUTH... Again, someone else who thinks their Daddy's favorite....

For a household that was supposed to be so united and like-minded about things, it is sickening to see the number of cases where people turned against others just to make themselves look good or because they couldn't stand up to some big-wig with a nametag! Maybe it's me, but right after the "leadership tapes" or whatever you want to call them, that Craig put out that were supposed to clarify who was in charge, etc., and put an end to the "Fog Years" people began getting really two-faced. This seemed to get even worse when the whole "Promised Land of the Prevailing Word" was introduced and there was a drive to eliminate weakness from the fellowships. Suddenly, people were getting called on the carpet for the darnest things - a dirty dish in the sink, their baby crying during the teaching, having too many pets (even if their house was clean) - any little mote in that could be found. Everyone was game - even people who weren't going to fellowship... Anyone here ever have to go "Confrontation Witnessing"? I'm not making this up - we really had to do this in my area - I HATED IT! We had to pick a topic, such as debt, and write down two or three scriptures on a 3x5 card. Then we had to go door-to-door or to the mall and start a conversation with people about this topic. We had to teach/confront them that debt was against the Word and get them to read the little card. Then, we had to try to get them to fellowship. Guess what? I never saw any fruit from this at all, anywhere, by anyone who I knew who did this! Oh, and I almost forgot... We were supposed to be talking to people who didn't look like they would be "high maintaince" believers if they did get in the Word. They should look like they had their lives together. (Then what the hell did I have that they would want if they had their lives together? HELLO-oooo!) At least leadership wasn't snotty about who they directed the abusive confrontation towards - they even tried to share it with people who weren't IN the ministry to begin with!

We saw the Eagles in Manchester, NH last year - paid $98/ticket for nosebleed seats(OUCH!) We saw Simon & Garfunkle this spring in Boston, MA - paid $49/ticket for nosebleeds (saw the best show ever!) This last weekend, Los Lonely Boys & The Allman Brother Band were doing a local outdoor concert - lawn seats (uncovered) were $33 - which was a good deal (if it hadn't been raining cats & dogs!) It depends on the band playing - I think $100 is the most I'd pay to see someone who might not come up this way but every now and then or might be "retiring" soon. It also depends on how our finances are at the time. Many times, hubby & I will give tickets to a special show as a gift - it works out a lot better than another stupid tie!

Oh, man... Danny... You weren't around for the teachings about Joshua, were you? What you saw on that stage and heard comin' from Craig's piehole was nuttin' compared to that "Advanced Class Special"... I remember one particular section where he was analyzing the different tactics of the tribes that opposed Joshua. He went on and on and on about them - how the adversary worked in them, the debbil spurits they operated, etc. He then went into graphic detail about how Joshua's army eliminated them - it was just gross, graphic detail. I remember wondering, "How is THIS going to help us have more abundance and power?" It was one big, fat, ego trip that was really illustrated when he sent out the photos of himself dressed up as Joshua one year for HoHo or something like that. Sick. Everyone, everything - no matter how small - was a potential enemy to him. What he couldn't see is that HE was HIS OWN worse enemy! "Don't let me get me, I'm my own worse enemy..." - Pink

PowerPoint has a "Pack & Go" feature that you can burn on the disk when you copy your slideshow. It includes a viewer but I think you will find that most of these creative software programs that would allow you to make slideshows will have you do something similar - they all want to plug their own product, somehow... You can also save the program as a ".pps", which means PowerPoint Slideshow - this makes it so the slideshow only will run when it double cllicked on and the slides will be viewed as a show - but not in the slide format you saw them in to make the show. In otherwords, it's like an "auto run" command - it will automatically run the show.

I do this a lot in my job for funerals - I use PowerPoint. (I've also done it for happier occasions on the side). I start by cleaning the photos up in Adobe PhotoShop (version 7.0, I think, but it's on my other computer). After cropping, balancing the contrast and color, and sharpening them, I remove any scratches or "noise". It's easier if the photos are digital to begin with. By using PowePoint I can set the timing of the advancement of the slides, set different animation to the way the slides advance, use whatever music I want, etc. I like the consistancy of the results. I've tried this with some other programs and the timing of the music & the visual will be off with different computers. Another reason I like PowerPoint for this is that there's not "cutsie" factor with it - there's no built-in cheesy animation or ugly graphics - unless you add them - with it. Getting the timing down (the slideshow and the music) can be a little tough sometimes in PowerPoint - if you use instramental music it's easier to stop a song before it really ends. I have also used AudioSurgeon to edit or mix my own music for a slideshow. p.s. It doesn't matter if your pics are jpg or tiff or bmp (bitmap) - PowerPoint can "read" all formats.

Thanks for all the tips. I think I'm going to write one of those MasterCard commercials about this experience: Blue's Clues Cotton Underoos.......... $12.00 a paddedBob the Builder potty seat.... $19.00 a new mop for the bathroom floor...... $9.00 Having your son potty trained before kindergarten..... PRICELESS!

What totally sucked about these "confrontations" is that if you disagreed in any way with what was being said or tried to demonstrate your side of the story, you were labeled "unmeek" or "rebellious". It was so #%$&*@# frustrating! I was in a situation where I was an assistant to someone who felt threatened by me. The fellowship we ran prefered to talk with me about things - they'd call when they knew she was at a phone hook up because they all said the same thing - she can't be trusted. They all had been burned by her breaking their confidences in her by her going to "leadership" with their problems/questions - blowing simple problems up to be something they weren't. Some of the folks were just lonely and needed a friend - I could sympathize with that! Anyhow, I got framed by her more than once shortly after we got new BCs/LCs in our area. She painted a picture of me being a real little monster to them - that I was lazy, did what I wanted, didn't conform. The previous leadership knew me from other assignments - they wouldn't have called me on the carpet for the crap she was spewing. (I was also the only person in the fellowship who had brought any new people in over two years!) I left shortly after some of the b.s. confrontations - I was sick to death of the "Salem Witch Trials" they were trying to hold. They were digging for crap! When I told my area coordinator, who I'd worked with when I was on staff, why I was leaving, he agreed I'd been getting a raw deal - he was more sympathetic about my leaving than I had expected. It seemed like anyone with a green name tag and a mean temper could get away with whatever they wanted - the madder they could get, the louder they could yell, the more spiritually "right on" they were... Last I heard the little sweetheart who had an ax to grind against me is no longer WC or running a fellowship... Suprise, suprise!

Just Thinking - methinks your chain is being yanked by houseisarockin's post... That song was performed at the Advanced Class Speeeecial in Dallas - I think it was '98, but I'm not 100% sure about the year... The song rocked, quite frankly. It was quite a contrast from the sickly-sweet "We're Prevailing with the Prevailing Word" b.s. that the Singing Ladies were honking about. However, the lyrics were just soild proof that LCM had his mind totally in another administration - not in the Grace Administration. The lyrics came from Psalms - there's lot of other threads about this song on Grease Spot Cafe as well - many posters here heard it. The song also made it to a tape that was given to the Way Corps in 1999. That's the only recorded version of it that I know of.

martyr - someone who suffers or dies for their beliefs, or for a particular cause, etc. QUICK - Name one belief or cause, other than her own, have you seen Donna Martindale stand up or suffer for? Suffered enough? Puleeeezzzeeeee! She vacationed at exotic locations (there's pictures here on GSC to prove it!) while the staff is told there will be no bonus that year or vacations more than 100 miles from HQ because they needed to keep "the wagons rounded". She's never had to use a credit card for survival because she only had $60 cash and had to figure out how to get from TN to ME the cheepest. She's never been abandoned by the "household" because of something her spouse did - even if she'd been sent with him by order of leadership! She didn't have a ding on her credit report because her husband, who was M&A'ed, broke the lease on the apt they were told to get by leadership within a week or get M&A'ed. Has she ever been threatened with being M&A'ed? She's never been at odds for somewhere to live, wondered if she's going to have enough food to make it through the week or get her car repaired. She's been a kept woman for years! Suffered? I should say not. If she "suffered" then why didn't she expose that louse of a husband of hers for what he was? Why didn't she get a lawyer or go to the BOT or whatever any point fingers (it was no secret about his antics! She's have had no trouble having them believe her!)??? She's not a "weak woman"... Furthermore, she's made many, many people suffer! What about the comments she made about the believer who died in a plane crash? Didn't she basically say it was because of his believing? There's audio clips of her rants from lunchtime on GSC to prove it. What about the pain she's caused people's families when they needed comfort? In many ways she was no better than LCM. She was certainly no martyr - give me a break!

By the way - I like the incentive plans you guys have come up with but I'm having trouble finding anything that the kid can't live without. He's the type who will walk away from anything if it's not done on his terms. In short, he's a tough customer!

I hadn't been harping on the little guy about going potty - someone told me to wait until he "showed interest". So, I've been waiting. He does tell me after he's gone in his diaper that, "I want to go to the potty now, pleeezzzee!" (We both know it's too late, but that's his schitk at the moment...) But now my monster-in-law is giving me a hard time about the fact he's still in diapers (although she has NEVER changed one of his diapers yet!) The little spud has been to the bathroom with hubby to see how fun it can be to pee standing up. He wasn't impressed - he could top that anyday by pooping in the bath, which always gets mommy and daddy excited (read: grossed out). Today we got him some cotton training pants. He loves them and was very upset when I put him in a diaper at bed time... Is there really a glimmer of hope here?....

Our adorable little rug rat turned 3 years old last month and has yet to think of using the potty. He complains when he's wet or poopy (he does this by imitating mommy, who has a really weak stomach, by making retching noises.) I feel like I'm going to be packing a diaper bag for his prom, at the rate this kid is going! "Honey, your date is here! Now don't forget her flowers and here's your diaper bag. Oh, don't you look handsome! Let me check your diaper before you go out - hold still.... Here's the car keys... " Seriously, we need advice on getting this kid outta diapers. HELP!!!!

Exie - You asked how things were post our split from each other and TWI -- Last I heard, my ex was trying to get married and was still trying to get back into TWI. Interestingly enough, he had gotten some woman in the ministry who was taking the class. Even though he had witnessed to her and was engaged to her, she was not allowed to fellowship with him because he was M&A'ed - twisted... soooo twisted.... He'd had mental problems which had resulted in hospitalizations for him. Amazingly enough, he was still loyal to TWI. I honestly hope he's found peace and happiness. I sincerely mean it. As for me, well... most of you know that I met my hubby via Waydale in January of 2000. We married in August. We bought a house in June 2001 and our son was born a few days later. We're now expecting our second child Feb. 2005. Overall, life has been good and I am happy. I'm glad I got out of TWI when I was able to makea fresh start - I was/am young enough. I know many who weren't so lucky.

Let me draw some non-parallels for you about what happened to me and a few other couples I know of that were booted from staff or WC (for clarification - we were NOT WC) AND what did or did not happen with LCM's fall from grace... Let me clarify something else - I don't blame TWI for what happened with my first marriage. I chose to stay, leave, fight, give in, whatever - I'm a big girl and take ownership of it. 1. After my husband had been confronted by his leadership about some problems he had and then by his leadship with their assistant, WE were brought before the head of the cabinate (Rev. BT) for "third level confrontation". As for LCM, I've read MANY accounts of how he was confrontated for his actions but didn't change - it seems he only got worse, as the Allen's lawsuit surfaced. Sidebar: Does anyone know or have a educated guess on how many YEARS went by from when LCM was first confronted for his "affairs" and when he finally got the boot from HQ? (I would guess this would be decades...) 2. We were confronted by BT about some of the most deepest details of our lives you could possibly imagine. I remember not hardly speaking through the whole thing because I was so shocked and embarassed. First of all, I didn't know my husband had been confronted about the things WE were brought in front of leadship for - he didn't tell me about the other times - he'd only said he'd had bad days or seemed bummed out about things. I thought he was just having trouble getting used to being at HQ. (We'd only been there about 5 weeks when this all came down.) I seriously doubt the deepest intimate secrets of the M'dale's marriage were examined sooooo closely. It's well known (via Waydale and now GPC) that LCM liked threesomes - Why wasn't he confronted about the HOMO aspect of THAT?!? 3. After being humilitated, stripped emotionally bare (at least, that's how I felt), we were told we had to take whatever money we had plus a few hundred extra dollars given to us (I think we had about $800-900) and we were to return to the state we came from "for help". ALL THIS CAME DOWN THE SAME DAY WE WERE CONFRONTED. I begged to stay - I begged for another chance. Nope and nope. Again, how long - even after the Allen's lawsiut broke - did LCM remain not only at HQ, but as the Pres.? It was weeks, if not months! 4. From the money we had, we had to buy bus tickets to get back to TN from OH - it wasn't cheep. I didn't want to go and didn't want to be associated with my husband at that point. I felt he was a stranger now - I didn't know him anymore. But, my only other choice was to separate from him all together and try to get back to ME (where I'm from) on $400-450 and start over. I chose to stick with him for purely financial reasons at that point. Do you think Donna or LCM ever had to make a decision like that because they didn't have enough funds? Hell, LCM owned suits that cost over $1K each! AND HE HAD SEVERAL OF THEM! Although I don't know how LCM was run out of HQ, but I bet it wasn't on a smelly Greyhound Bus! 5. When we got back to our home state, just a little over 12 hours from when we were first sitting in BT's office, we were "greeted" by the local branch coordinator. He informed us he'd booked us a hotel room for the night - at our expense. We were to have NO CONTACT with any of the local believers. We were told not to contact him unless we had a serious emergency. Furthermore, we were instructed we were to get housing and jobs within a week or we were both going to be marked and avoided. LCM was set up to live with a family when he left. He wasn't left flapping in the wind like we were. I'm sure he had contact and connections with the household when he first went out into the "wild". I'm quite sure he wasn't given just a week to find a job - any job. 6. Hubby was M&A'ed one week after we arrived in TN because he did not have a job (we had an apt and I had a job by then). There was no messing around by leadership. Was LCM ever M&A'ed? I think he might have been on "probation" at best... Someone here might know for sure. This is what burns my sweet Yankee fanny about him getting the treatment he got - there was no swift justice in how the BOT dealt with him at all. They took their sweet time and probably he wasn't disposed of until either their insurance threatened not to insure them anymore because of him or the lawyers said it would look better in court if he wasn't on the dole. The sad thing is that po' ba$tard (LCM) probably costs them LESS money living off grounds while his family is all snug in a spacious home than he would had he remained on grounds and ANOTHER lawsuit happened... 7. I found out, just a few months ago, as a matter of fact, that our situation was the discussion of a noon time meal at HQ. Oh, yeah.... I was embarassed all over again because we had a lot of friends there at HQ. We weren't the next Donna & LCM - but we were well known and had been asked more than once to come in the WC. Do you think LCM & Donna's details were discussed at a noon time meeting? Don't bet the farm or even a cow patty on it! So, what's good for everyone else who gets to fall from grace with TWI isn't good enough for the leader. If there wasn't proof in the puddin' of "do as I say - not as I do" with TWI, this would be it. After all this... After all the innies who lurked on Waydale and Greasespot Cafe before, during, and after the lawsuit broke... After all the people - real people - Joe & Jane Believer - not big shots - who have told their stories and the pure crap they dealt with... After all this, I still can't believe that there hasn't been a bigger fall out from the ministry than there has been. It's either apathy or ignorance holding them back.

Oooohhhh... I'd forgotten about that.... Does anyone know how much they paid in taxes and if they re-cooped any of it?

As someone who was NOT WC but was tossed out of HQ on their ear because their husband was suspected of being homo, I HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH DONNA & HER FAMILY GETTING THE TREATMENT THEY'RE GETTING! Wake up lurkers! These people are having their lovely, lush home cleaned, their meals cooked, their children watched, their cars repaired & paid for, their DESIGNER clothing bought, their entertainment expenses (and anyone who's been on staff will tell you that going to the latest movies are favs), their kids music lessons/soccar games/ballet lessons - you name it -- ALL PAID FOR BY YOUR ABS! THEY COST THE MINISTRY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EACH MONTH! DON'T KID YOURSELF! THEY DID VERY LITTLE TO HELP US! We were given a couple hundred $$ to relocate and that was it. When we got to our destination (after buying bus tickets out of that money), we were told we had to stay in a hotel until we found housing. WE WERE ALLOWED NO CONTACT WITH THE LOCAL BELIEVERS OR LEADERSHIP! NONE! In my case, my husband was M&A'ed and I was told that if I stayed with him I would be M&A'ed too.They gave me an ultimatum - I chose to stay with TWI. My then-husband was considered a cop out - What's the difference with Craig's status? I don't buy the "it's because of the kids" thing anymore. Sorry. MANY wafer kids suffered because of their parents being with TWI and stigmas they got in school or the community with it. It burns my *** that many people were treated by the LCM administration in a way that THEY WON'T TREAT THEIR OWN. Yeah, right - I'm sure Donna is Rosie-lie's "personal assistant". I bet my first born she isn't doing her ironing or cooking her meals. HA! What a crock! Also, I seriously doubt they're using LCM's teachings out of respect for Donna. No ****king way. They're doing it because they haven't had an origional idea since the earth cooled. They'd $hit themselves if they did because God hasn't talked to those carnal minded, anal-retentive carpet eaters in so long they wouldn't recognize His voice even if He did! The street would be too good for them - there's a pig farm just up the street from HQ....

Isn't fresh air sweet? For a "Christian" group, TWI certainly wasn't the most philanthropic bunch of "believers", now were they? I remember LCM bragging that he was proud they weren't. I'm sure people who had come to them for help really appreciated hearing that. Yup - here I've given TWI thousands of dollars and they can't give me a red cent to help with a major life crisis! They just told people to believe bigger or that there was holes in their believing and that's why they had a crisis.... Nope, they aren't philanthropic - philanderers would be a more apt description!

Onion - I was in Rumsford not too long ago and Mead Paper has done a lot about the smell. It used to be a lot worse! I was really impressed. (I'm Irish and don't consider the smell of cooked cabbage to be offensive but that's me...) Anyhow, I'm from the Sanford/Wells area in southern Maine. I got in the Word in 1988 with the Sanford WOWs and then attended twig in Portland at the limb... Many moons ago, now...

Spoiled... I would define it as something that was once sweet but that ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Something I used to take pleasure in but the more time I spent around it, I encountered mostly pain or unpleasantness. ........................................... For me, God is still the same God. I assign no blame to God for any of my experiences. My choices to stay, leave, listen, talk, whatever were mine. The Word is tainted for me in that every occurance of "also" or "receive" still seems to jump out at me (not in the literal sence, of course) but "way brain" as we often call it highlights certain word, verses, books, etc. from the Bible. I've taken to reading anything BUT the KJV as a result. I really enjoy one version called "The Word" and some other hippie version my husband has, although it's almost "too modern" - almost comical at places. Religion - that's another story. I probably have way more respect for the diversity of beliefs than I had when I was in TWI, but I'm glad when they keep their beliefs to themselves. No thanks - not interested - gave at the office... I have no desire to join and don't miss "group sports".

I'm totally thrown for a loop with this... I mean, here's a copyright violation and possible lawsuit with the words "The Way" in it AND pjroberge isn't involved....

The screaming, ranting, swearing MOGs certainly made it easy for the introduction of "Mark & Avoid" as the final form of reproof. I remember it being taught like this: 1. Confront the individual. 2. If they don't change or have a second offence, confront them with someone in the household. 3. If they don't change or have a third offence, confront them with the household fellowship (twig). I think I've only seen the third aspect of this once or twice. Funny that when it came to "multiple offenders" the words "Mark & Avoid" were quickly applied. Also, is it really godly reproof if you have to "build people back up" after reproving them? To "build back up" means you've torn them down. Why would you do this to someone when you're supposed to be putting on the mind of Christ? Why did seem the "trend" in reproof was to have "GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN!" episodes every time someone needed correction? What a bunch of drama queens!

I highly recommend this area of NH: www.winnipesaukee.com It's not "tourist infested" like you might get on the seacoast, but does have great attractions. I live at the most southern tip of the lake. Tag me if you're coming this way - jarg@metrocast.net

Knowing that we have quite a mix of people posting here, I know that this question will bring a variety of answers. I'm curious as to what has been tainted for people, overall, post their TWI experiences. For me, it's receiving counsel from anyone about a personal aspect of my life. I won't ask and don't like to be told how to live my personal life. Even when there have been times when hubby and I probably could have used counsel, I wouldn't have gone. TWI leaders had their noses waaaayyyy too far into my personal life, including my bedroom, for my comfort - BUT THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO ABOUT IT. That's the maddening part. That's also why that part is spoiled for me. I also hate hearing any preacher speak with any kind of mid-west accent - especially if he's yelling. Forget it! What's been spoiled for you? What is being kept from you possibly benefitting from things that you could use in your life because of your experience in TWI?

DVDShrink is 'da bomb! I had not trouble locating online last night and got to save the movie to my hd, at least. Now I just need to get my hands on Nero. The DVD burning sw that came with my new computer is junk. I've blown most of it off and it amazes me how cryptic the interfaces of those programs are. I mean, I get around pretty good with sw - advanced MS user, etc., but I can't imagine how someone who's just starting out feels when they look at some of these... yikes! Anyhow, I've located a free trial of Nero - I think I can get it from work for free anyhow, which is always nice... Thanks again you guys! You always have the best advise!